:RpS_crying: . . Can anyone help please. My house is cracked all over like an egg. Renderer applied weber pral over a scratch coat of sand (sharp and pit) and cement 4 n'1. The scratch coat was standing for two years no cracks and sound before it had weber pral on. He didn't put on renderaid or nothing. He's now staying it's down to my whole house moving. No cracks inside the building at all. No movement what so ever. Where do I go from here?. Any suggestions please?.
weber Pral HELP please
- Thread starter pickle
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Your not in cheltenham are you? Any chance of a pic?
nickelarse
Private Member
ur f.ucked
nickelarse
Private Member
does it sound hollow?
warriorupnorth
Private Member
You say the scratch coat was stood for two years, did you jet wash it down and treat it before you rendered, and what was the scratch like before rendering in the pral
The scratch coats was solid as a rock before rendering the pral. The sharp sand in it made it so and it was also about 12 to 15mm thick. No pral is not hallow and in the sun the gaps seems to get bigger. No, it wasn't jet washed it down or renderaid before hand and this was December . By the way I didn't render it I had it done by a specialist as i'd never used the product before .
Its dried too quick coz the suction in the background hasnt been controlled so wether thats no waterproofer in the scratch or maybe it froze or maybe it was too hot its ******. Its the plasterers fault IF he never mentioned before he started "I didnt do the scratch so im not guaranteeing the finish wont crack" which is what i would say and i always put it in writting on jobs like this also if a customer tells me he will board the ceilings the same applies. So did he do the scratch? And if he didnt mention it before hand he still has the same argument.
Yes there was waterproofing added to the scratch coat before being applied. I did ask him on many occasions prior to starting the job if he went over my scratch coat would it crack. He said no it will be fine as he'd never know pral to crack (a slight porky there me thinks). . .
Yes applied in December!
Rigsby
TPF Special Forces
Never known Pral.m to crack? Thats a laugh :RpS_laugh:
The last 2-3 Decembers have been seriously cold, risky doing any external wet work when it's that cold. The water in any wet building material will freeze and expand causing cracks, cobwebbing crows feet and god knows however many more terms. I'm not saying this is definatley what has happened but I knew a gang last Xmas applying mono parex, the site agent had to sign off the risks with the instruction because of the chances of cracking.
Where would you go from here?. . . I'm trying to get my money back which is causing a huge problem and then I have the problem of what to do with it. Will it have pulled off the scratch coat?. . Do I risk trying to take it off?. Cheers guys I really do appreciate all your help.
What happened here Pickle is you got a load of cheap chancers in, you scratched it yourself to save money so you probably beaded incorrectly to save money, then found the cheapest bunch of chancers to apply top coat to incorrectly and now your in a pickle about what to do! Chop the lot off, re bead pre rend and top with a quality mono. You will then be able to stand back and be pleased and proud with the way your property looks for years to come. Quality isn't cheapo!
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Rigsby
TPF Special Forces
When did these cracks first appear? Maybe down to the time of year but I think it would have cracked then rather than later.
If it is solid you could consider a thin coat system with a silicone or acrylic 1.5mm finish. This would be in Weber materials 3mm of weber lac, fully meshed then a further 2-3mm of Weber lac. Then colour coded primer with a Weber.sil TF150 trowel finish. SPS Envorowall do a thin coat called Scolofax, it goes on 3mm thick fully meshed then an acrylic or silicone trowel finish on top. This particular thin coat is elasticated and made for backgrounds that may move. Think it costs a bit though like Webers Santane.
What usually causes crows feet cracks? I have one on a pral.m job. Starts vertical from a window corner for about 250mm then webs out. This particular window was created with a bolster chisel with no lintel fitted. Only 450mm square window with good gaps around it and the cracks are fine hairline but still causing distress between me and the customer. I am putting it down to a stress crack but what about the crows feet?
If it is solid you could consider a thin coat system with a silicone or acrylic 1.5mm finish. This would be in Weber materials 3mm of weber lac, fully meshed then a further 2-3mm of Weber lac. Then colour coded primer with a Weber.sil TF150 trowel finish. SPS Envorowall do a thin coat called Scolofax, it goes on 3mm thick fully meshed then an acrylic or silicone trowel finish on top. This particular thin coat is elasticated and made for backgrounds that may move. Think it costs a bit though like Webers Santane.
What usually causes crows feet cracks? I have one on a pral.m job. Starts vertical from a window corner for about 250mm then webs out. This particular window was created with a bolster chisel with no lintel fitted. Only 450mm square window with good gaps around it and the cracks are fine hairline but still causing distress between me and the customer. I am putting it down to a stress crack but what about the crows feet?
Rigsby
TPF Special Forces
This job was done early summer.
essexandy
The Lake Governor
No lintel!!! And he wonders why there's a crack, what a ******* idiot. I've seen quite a few stress cracks that spread out like that.
About five years ago I did a render (S&C) and a few months down the line there were a few cracks on the front of the property coming away from the windows just as you describe. I told the firms MD that I'd chop out where the cracks were and if the blocks were fine then I'd pay to have it scaffolded and re-render it free of charge. He thought this was very fair so I went and got my hammer and bolster and after cutting out around a couple of cracks he held his hands up and admitted that the problem was theirs. He said they'd just get the decorators to fill the cracks. A further three years down the line the house had cracked to hell, from windows, corners and straight across block courses.
About five years ago I did a render (S&C) and a few months down the line there were a few cracks on the front of the property coming away from the windows just as you describe. I told the firms MD that I'd chop out where the cracks were and if the blocks were fine then I'd pay to have it scaffolded and re-render it free of charge. He thought this was very fair so I went and got my hammer and bolster and after cutting out around a couple of cracks he held his hands up and admitted that the problem was theirs. He said they'd just get the decorators to fill the cracks. A further three years down the line the house had cracked to hell, from windows, corners and straight across block courses.
Only six weeks after the job was finished cracks appeared (December). It was re-beaded by the renderer. They were not a bunch of cheap chancers but webers "top" team for the area.
I got these guys in as I wanted to know what could go over the original scratch coat as this was sound. It was these guys who suggested weber pral. I'd already had the original top coat of sand and cement last 10 years (which I done). I was used to working with the old stuff but not weber pral so I got an 'expert' in. Couldn't believe it when weber pral only lasted six weeks.
I had to contact weber for my certificate. They said it's not the product at fault but the way it was applied .
Rigsby 'Thank you' . . . I may have to take your advise but can't touch it now till spring. I need to see if it's all going to fall off over the winter. Just hope the scratch coat don't let water in.
After alot of arguements. . I've been offered only half my money back or he said he would rack out the cracks and fill with render and then use 'Sil p'.. . . . My thoughts are how the hell do you mend a cracked egg. .
What would you do? Thanks
I got these guys in as I wanted to know what could go over the original scratch coat as this was sound. It was these guys who suggested weber pral. I'd already had the original top coat of sand and cement last 10 years (which I done). I was used to working with the old stuff but not weber pral so I got an 'expert' in. Couldn't believe it when weber pral only lasted six weeks.
I had to contact weber for my certificate. They said it's not the product at fault but the way it was applied .
Rigsby 'Thank you' . . . I may have to take your advise but can't touch it now till spring. I need to see if it's all going to fall off over the winter. Just hope the scratch coat don't let water in.
After alot of arguements. . I've been offered only half my money back or he said he would rack out the cracks and fill with render and then use 'Sil p'.. . . . My thoughts are how the hell do you mend a cracked egg. .
What would you do? Thanks
Render Systems
Private Member
if its not hollow then go over the lot with thin coat acrylic system with mesh in the basecoat job done and wont crack
bubbles65
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that the scratch coat was done 12 years ago? Then you've left it open for 2 years, have I got that right?
Rigsby
TPF Special Forces
You should really find a way to seal these cracks before winter sets in. Pral.m is is waterproof so water getting in the cracks will either find its way into the scratch coat or if stuck in the cracks could expand on freezing and cause bigger problems.
You could try getting by with some rendit to fill the cracks in with until Spring. Weber also does a crack filler usung a syringe type gun. They will email you details. Only good if you intend going over it with like described below.
You could try getting by with some rendit to fill the cracks in with until Spring. Weber also does a crack filler usung a syringe type gun. They will email you details. Only good if you intend going over it with like described below.
Thank you guys again for your help. The latest news is I have asked Weber to send an inspector down to see the property and advise us on what has happened for the best step forward. They have sent me back to the useless renderer to let him deal with the situation. Talk about pulling ranks. . . All I wanted was some advise. You guys have been more helpful then Weber's so called team. I understand that water will get in and the time scale to sort out the job will be very tight. I can't see it not cracking again if it ever gets put right so i'm still stuck. Matt Alright and his trusty pitch fork is looking like the only option right now.
Rigsby
TPF Special Forces
If ever you have a problem and you think Weber may be at fault they will always blame the applicator or builder/owner, never themselves. I have an issue with them at the moment over discolouration. The Yorkshire Tech rep has been proved wrong and everything is pointing at a faulty batch. Now they will not send the tech rep out or answer my emails. I have cracks appearing around the windows which has been diagnosed as stress cracks due to the structure being weakened in the past, this is after the rep (after seeing 2 cracks) said it was down to me not creating expansion gaps at the window sill ends. The customer believes his report as gospel and my evidence as hogwash.
I spent £10000 with Weber this year and this is how they respect their customers. It has done me a favour in one way though. I have learnt a lot about high/low tension renders and stresses in buildings. Also their competitors are dealing with the problems of monocouche in the the British refurb market. I have also learnt due to the problems of monocouche renders that you need to write out your contracts very carefully and warn of the consequences of cracking around stress area's and put into your contract a disclaimer. Might well put customers off hiring you but with the stress this particular job has caused me the competition is welcome to the risky work.
I spent £10000 with Weber this year and this is how they respect their customers. It has done me a favour in one way though. I have learnt a lot about high/low tension renders and stresses in buildings. Also their competitors are dealing with the problems of monocouche in the the British refurb market. I have also learnt due to the problems of monocouche renders that you need to write out your contracts very carefully and warn of the consequences of cracking around stress area's and put into your contract a disclaimer. Might well put customers off hiring you but with the stress this particular job has caused me the competition is welcome to the risky work.
Totally agree with you Rigsby, Weber do blame everyone else but the product. Although I have had nothing but problems with our renderer. His work was smooth. Granted he took short cuts he shouldn't have done but I still feel the product was not as good as it was ment to be. Next doors sand and cement has lasted longer and looks better. I guess I'm after a product they just don't make which will cling to the surface and expand and move with the weather.
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