Surrey Looking for someone to chip off and re-render(?lime) 1930s house

worthwords

Member
Surrey, near epsom KT20.
Don't think sand and cement is the best option for this house as it was built to be breathable. The rough cast render is falling to pieces after it was painted with impermeable paint and the cavity filled with insulation which has trapped moisture in the masonary.
The bricks and mortar are very soft and it's on a clay soil with seasonal movement which add to the cracking problem.

I am getting the cavity wall insulation removed but the render needs to be taken back to brick, some brickwork fixed and a new sympathetic render applied.

Anyone with experience of lime/breathable renders able to come have a look and advise?
lots of internal work to do also so looking to build a good relationship,

kind regards,
 

vfr12

MOTORC*NT
I would be all over you if you was closer!

That will suit @Vincey or @imago, if he can get @Nisus ass moving , or maybe @tapit . Let’s not forget @Andy g and his mate @lurpak . If they are not available @JessThePlasterer will crack it in no time tbh.
If time is not on your side @algeeman is your man. Forget about @Cockney1 and @paulf , both useless.And @Robbo123 is more concerned about his look and manicure, hence on 1/2 days, but charges for full. Avoid @Gavine The First , he comes always last , but is first to leave.
 

imago

Private Member
Surrey, near epsom KT20.
Don't think sand and cement is the best option for this house as it was built to be breathable. The rough cast render is falling to pieces after it was painted with impermeable paint and the cavity filled with insulation which has trapped moisture in the masonary.
The bricks and mortar are very soft and it's on a clay soil with seasonal movement which add to the cracking problem.

I am getting the cavity wall insulation removed but the render needs to be taken back to brick, some brickwork fixed and a new sympathetic render applied.

Anyone with experience of lime/breathable renders able to come have a look and advise?
lots of internal work to do also so looking to build a good relationship,

kind regards,

What makes you think that the original render applied when it was built isn't "sympathetic"? 1930's houses were built with soft brick as they were cheaper than hard fired, they then applied a s&c render to add strength. There is no point or benefit to applying lime to the outer leaf of a cavity, just make sure the cavity is well ventilated.

Get rid of the cavity insulation, then hack off and re-render with a decent s&c render applied by someone who knows what they're doing. Rough cast for originality or smooth to be more contemporary.

Don't be tempted into the new render types, they're fine for a finish but don't add the strength required.
 

paulf

Well-Known Member
Here he comes great uncle Bulgaria the tpf CockWomble
P0.jpg
 

JessThePlasterer

Queen Jess Elizabeth I
I would be all over you if you was closer!

That will suit @Vincey or @imago, if he can get @Nisus ass moving , or maybe @tapit . Let’s not forget @Andy g and his mate @lurpak . If they are not available @JessThePlasterer will crack it in no time tbh.
If time is not on your side @algeeman is your man. Forget about @Cockney1 and @paulf , both useless.And @Robbo123 is more concerned about his look and manicure, hence on 1/2 days, but charges for full. Avoid @Gavine The First , he comes always last , but is first to leave.
I would need a red carpet rolled out from the property to my van let’s not forget now! :coffe:
 

vfr12

MOTORC*NT
What makes you think that the original render applied when it was built isn't "sympathetic"? 1930's houses were built with soft brick as they were cheaper than hard fired, they then applied a s&c render to add strength. There is no point or benefit to applying lime to the outer leaf of a cavity, just make sure the cavity is well ventilated.

Get rid of the cavity insulation, then hack off and re-render with a decent s&c render applied by someone who knows what they're doing. Rough cast for originality or smooth to be more contemporary.

Don't be tempted into the new render types, they're fine for a finish but don't add the strength required.
@worthwords thats not usually @imago response. I think nisus just told him to f**k of :LOL:
 

lurpak

Artex Boy
I would be all over you if you was closer!

That will suit @Vincey or @imago, if he can get @Nisus ass moving , or maybe @tapit . Let’s not forget @Andy g and his mate @lurpak . If they are not available @JessThePlasterer will crack it in no time tbh.
If time is not on your side @algeeman is your man. Forget about @Cockney1 and @paulf , both useless.And @Robbo123 is more concerned about his look and manicure, hence on 1/2 days, but charges for full. Avoid @Gavine The First , he comes always last , but is first to leave.

English please mate, can’t read a word
 

worthwords

Member
What makes you think that the original render applied when it was built isn't "sympathetic"? 1930's houses were built with soft brick as they were cheaper than hard fired, they then applied a s&c render to add strength. There is no point or benefit to applying lime to the outer leaf of a cavity, just make sure the cavity is well ventilated.

Get rid of the cavity insulation, then hack off and re-render with a decent s&c render applied by someone who knows what they're doing. Rough cast for originality or smooth to be more contemporary.

Don't be tempted into the new render types, they're fine for a finish but don't add the strength required.

I don't think it is the original render and only 3 surfaces are rendered. There is a gap between our house and next door which is the bare brick and in good condition.
There is a good chance it was rendered at the same time as the extension was built in 1978. The extension which is similarly rendered has not suffered in the same way as the original house fabric.

A few of the houses on our street built around the same time have suffered total render failure and the ones doing well are pebbledashed but I can't bring myself to do that.

I'm not sure what the best answer is so good to get as much input as possible. Thanks.
 

tapit

Well-Known Member
Surrey, near epsom KT20.
Don't think sand and cement is the best option for this house as it was built to be breathable. The rough cast render is falling to pieces after it was painted with impermeable paint and the cavity filled with insulation which has trapped moisture in the masonary.
The bricks and mortar are very soft and it's on a clay soil with seasonal movement which add to the cracking problem.

I am getting the cavity wall insulation removed but the render needs to be taken back to brick, some brickwork fixed and a new sympathetic render applied.

Anyone with experience of lime/breathable renders able to come have a look and advise?
lots of internal work to do also so looking to build a good relationship,

kind regards,
Do you run a dating site?
 

tapit

Well-Known Member
What makes you think that the original render applied when it was built isn't "sympathetic"? 1930's houses were built with soft brick as they were cheaper than hard fired, they then applied a s&c render to add strength. There is no point or benefit to applying lime to the outer leaf of a cavity, just make sure the cavity is well ventilated.

Get rid of the cavity insulation, then hack off and re-render with a decent s&c render applied by someone who knows what they're doing. Rough cast for originality or smooth to be more contemporary.

Don't be tempted into the new render types, they're fine for a finish but don't add the strength required.
why no lime @imago ?
 

imago

Private Member
why no lime @imago ?

Because the soft brick and weak mix s&c mortar had their strength enhanced by the s&c render to give the overall strength of the wall. The (much smaller than current) cavity is where the moisture wicks to and then moves out through the vents, floor void and at the top of the wall.

Horses for courses basically. You have to look at how/why it was built the way it was then work with that in mind when you're doing anything to a building.
 

worthwords

Member
Because the soft brick and weak mix s&c mortar had their strength enhanced by the s&c render to give the overall strength of the wall. The (much smaller than current) cavity is where the moisture wicks to and then moves out through the vents, floor void and at the top of the wall.

Horses for courses basically. You have to look at how/why it was built the way it was then work with that in mind when you're doing anything to a building.

Yes the original render is an important factor I think.
In terms of cavity wicking - According to the technical team at Energy Saving Trust, impermpable paint would still allow the bricks to release moisture into the vented cavity but it can be a disaster with CWI as well. As the CWI stops airflow and the cavity vents are all siliconed up then condensation from the house naturaly migrates to the outer skin (no vapor barrier in old houses) where it is trapped by the paint. Moist bricks = freeze thaw cycles and cracking of render. As soon as cracks develop then the whole processes is accelerated.

I'm by no means an expert but the mortar seems to have a high lime content and fizzes with vinegar and so does the render (where it hasn't been patched with cement). I wonder what sort of mix. I'm still unsure if the render is contemporary with the house - there is a similar house on our street which is unrendered and the brickwork is still looking good.
 

Cockney1

Well-Known Member
I would be all over you if you was closer!

That will suit @Vincey or @imago, if he can get @Nisus ass moving , or maybe @tapit . Let’s not forget @Andy g and his mate @lurpak . If they are not available @JessThePlasterer will crack it in no time tbh.
If time is not on your side @algeeman is your man. Forget about @Cockney1 and @paulf , both useless.And @Robbo123 is more concerned about his look and manicure, hence on 1/2 days, but charges for full. Avoid @Gavine The First , he comes always last , but is first to leave.
мамка му (y)
 

tapit

Well-Known Member
Because the soft brick and weak mix s&c mortar had their strength enhanced by the s&c render to give the overall strength of the wall. The (much smaller than current) cavity is where the moisture wicks to and then moves out through the vents, floor void and at the top of the wall.

Horses for courses basically. You have to look at how/why it was built the way it was then work with that in mind when you're doing anything to a building.
i always have thought that render should never be stronger than the substructure?
I am not an expert though and always willing to learn reasons why.
 

imago

Private Member
i always have thought that render should never be stronger than the substructure?
I am not an expert though and always willing to learn reasons why.

It depends on why it's there, as there are three main reasons for render. Decorative, waterproofing and strengthening which is why it's important to understand why a building or wall was designed and built the way it was. That will tell you how the wall is supposed to 'work' and what you need to do to keep it that way, as well as what to avoid which would prevent it from doing so.
 

tapit

Well-Known Member
It depends on why it's there, as there are three main reasons for render. Decorative, waterproofing and strengthening which is why it's important to understand why a building or wall was designed and built the way it was. That will tell you how the wall is supposed to 'work' and what you need to do to keep it that way, as well as what to avoid which would prevent it from doing so.
I'm non the wiser mate.
 

imago

Private Member
I'm non the wiser mate.

You said that you thought render should never be stronger than the substructure. I explained that sometimes it should, and then pointed out the importance of understanding the why and how of the wall's construction.
 

tapit

Well-Known Member
You said that you thought render should never be stronger than the substructure. I explained that sometimes it should, and then pointed out the importance of understanding the why and how of the wall's construction.
so if the render is stronger than the substructure will it not crack with natural movement of building?
 

worthwords

Member
Any pictures of background now?
here are some close ups. The last one shows the join between the 1935 house and the 1978 extension and the whole wall is a bit of a mess. I think there may have been a window some of that which has been blocked up.
There is seasonal movement at the join due to clay soil and tree. I'm told that extensions often had shallower foundations which also contributes to differential movement.
 

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worthwords

Member
here are some close ups. The last one shows the join between the 1935 house and the 1978 extension and the whole wall is a bit of a mess. I think there may have been a window some of that which has been blocked up.
There is seasonal movement at the join due to clay soil and tree. I'm told that extensions often had shallower foundations which also contributes to differential movement.

My house on the left unrendered between the houses where as next door is rendered.
Suggests perhaps a the original wasn't rendered.
Not looking to render this part as it's sheltered, not visible and not enough room to swing a hawk.
 

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