large new build render

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On site work using S&C I used to average 35m2 of finished render a day, that's two coat work and taking into account the beading. That's just me working on my own without a labourer.
If bought in the right quantities you can supply all the mats for a S&C render including stainless beads for £5 m2, it's hard to see how anyone could supply and fix a through coloured render for the same money as S&C.
I'm with Flynny on the fact that S&C renders if done correctly are at least as good as the bagged renders if not better.
 
I think s/c renders are better but no where near quicker, especially when you take the painting into account. Developers are all about speed especially in the winter months, if its nice weather they want the building finished not risk the rain spoiling the second coat or the paint.
 
richardbrown said:
I think s/c renders are better but no where near quicker, especially when you take the painting into account. Developers are all about speed especially in the winter months, if its nice weather they want the building finished not risk the rain spoiling the second coat or the paint.
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Are you sayin with a machine rich? obviously its faster but what about the prep ie taping up windows, doors, cleaning up and do you do most rendering jobs in one day?
 
Yes I use a machine Flynn.

we beaded and finished a 80m2 gable in a day inc beading and covering windows with ease. I think for developers and the bigger sites mono is the way forward purely from the speed point of view.
If I had a choice of renders on MY house it would be s/c every time though
 
Yeh i agree most developers are in it for the profit and if your in and out it makes sense especially on new builds.
 
essexandy said:
On site work using S&C I used to average 35m2 of finished render a day, that's two coat work and taking into account the beading. That's just me working on my own without a labourer.
If bought in the right quantities you can supply all the mats for a S&C render including stainless beads for £5 m2, it's hard to see how anyone could supply and fix a through coloured render for the same money as S&C.
I'm with Flynny on the fact that S&C renders if done correctly are at least as good as the bagged renders if not better.
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Thats the point
its not a fair comparison coloured mono is a highr spec and totally different to sand and cement
I was drawing comparison to the same finished result but everyone missed the point

sand and cement finished ready to receive paint and a bagged mortar finished ready to receive paint such as ocr or parmurex even cpi

5 quid a bag per M and twice as fast to install so either you make more money pumping it or you can lower your rates well beyond and lower than sand and cement.

thats where this debate started not on coloured gear the two dont compare

if you want to fairly compare coloured with sand and cement you will have to allow for the paint being included in the pricing of the sand and cement costs
 
totally agree with plasterjfe on that. paint has to be taken into account to compare the 2

as for which product, i prefere the s+c finish if done correctly, just most people arent capable of leaving a nice finish for when the sun comes out. i did my dads house 5-6 yrs ago. painted in weathershield. its has 2 extra coats since, no cracks, no mesh apart from eml on the brickwork cracks.

sprayed on, a sand and cement pre bagged such as ocr can be a bit more pricy. cpi is a bit more cost effective but still more expensive than site mix. if u used plastic beads instead of stainless you can get the cost close. id your floating the sprayed s+c then im not sure its that much quicker because you still have to float it, and theres only so much you can float in a day
 
flynnyman said:
Do you mean just sayin its less prone to cracks means it sounds good when selling it or it is less prone to cracking ie is it a fact?
If you mix sand and cement correctly YOU know its not contaminated, also if you add a waterproofer this will also make it highly water resistant. You can even add lime to make it slightly flexible and it looks mint if done well. Obviously it has its advantages one of the major ones being it can be repaired easily because the colour match doesnt matter, The waste can be used on any job and if your short you can pick it up easily enough. Ive seen plenty of jobs that havent cracked with sand and cement and it has lasted the test of time ive seen a lot of krend that looks shite after a few years and some that has been done wrong or had a few white marks showing through which really show up then again ive seen some nice jobs but they have only been done a short time.
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I see what your saying but theres just to many variables which make sand/cement more likely to fail, thats why its an inferior product, lets face it none of us mix are own render, we rely on the lab, when he gets tired mixes come and as long as there grey they go on the wall but what are the ratios, the weather is another problem for sand cement not so much for krend, the choice of materials sand/cement, choice of additives the list goes on krend is quicker to apply no waiting between coats.

The patching is a major problem though.

Adding lime to a sand/cement render is going to have no effect m8 to the properties other than to make it more elastic when applying, and lime shouldn't be used with waterproofer.
 
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FreeD said:
I see what your saying but theres just to many variables which make sand/cement more likely to fail, thats why its an inferior product, lets face it none of us mix are own render, we rely on the lab, when he gets tired mixes come and as long as there grey they go on the wall but what are the ratios, the weather is another problem for sand cement not so much for krend, the choice of materials sand/cement, choice of additives the list goes on krend is quicker to apply no waiting between coats.

The patching is a major problem though.

Adding lime to a sand/cement render is going to have no effect m8 to the properties other than to make it more elastic when applying, and lime shouldn't be used with waterproofer.
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I would say s&c is stronger krend is cement based but do krend say sand and cement is more likely to fail, thats why its an inferior product? the weather is the same wether your doing either and patching is a massive problem. I gave a list of materials ie sand, cement lime and a waterproofer i didnt say the waterproofer should be used with the lime and lime does more than plastersize a mix
 
lime can prevent cracking in a sand cment mix and can even expand and close cracks over again in time.

but then if we up the spec on a sand and cement render, should we not up the bagged product too, lime blended begged render or a polymer would be the choice
 
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you can also get a self coloured lime blended render in a bag that is floated of and left smooth not scraped like krend
 
flynnyman said:
I would say s&c is stronger krend is cement based but do krend say sand and cement is more likely to fail, thats why its an inferior product? the weather is the same wether your doing either and patching is a massive problem. I gave a list of materials ie sand, cement lime and a waterproofer i didnt say the waterproofer should be used with the lime and lime does more than plastersize a mix
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To be honest I don't know what Krend say m8, all I can go on is my experience of using Krend, i've never had any problems with cracking even when applying in strong direct sunlight. The main advantage of the product as others have metioned is speed of applicaton and not requiring painting which is obviously going to save a large amount of money on a site of 100 new build houses. Also Krend is breathable unlike a sand /cement render which is impermeable.

I can't see the point in using hydrated lime in a sand/cement render what additional properties does it have? IMO where cement is used theres no point using lime.
 
there are to good points here
s&c for me is a far better and stronger than mono but as we are moving with the times and the shitty prices
we have no other option but to offer clients other options this is where mono has come in to its own because it has allowed us to
get a faster turn around and also make a few quid ? .
i also think the quality of s&c work has went down hill i dont no if its down to the awfull sand merchants supply or just the fact there are to many chancers
in the game who have no idea how to do it properly
 
pwi said:
there are to good points here
s&c for me is a far better and stronger than mono but as we are moving with the times and the shitty prices
we have no other option but to offer clients other options this is where mono has come in to its own because it has allowed us to
get a faster turn around and also make a few quid ? .
i also think the quality of s&c work has went down hill i dont no if its down to the awfull sand merchants supply or just the fact there are to many chancers
in the game who have no idea how to do it properly
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scaffolds are always set up for brickys and no1 can float.
 
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