large new build render

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james07

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Hi everyone i am a self builder and am currntly building a house in Gleneagles Scotland.
I am almost ready for rendering and my architect has specified pwerwall or k rend.

As I am keen to keep cost down ,I am looking ionto 1 scratchcoat sand cement with a some sort of mesh and a 2nd smooth render finish.

if someone is keen to price me on the job that would be great ,also if anyone out there thinks my way of taking job on is not great then please say.
many thanks Jimmy
ps roughly 570m windows to come out of the measurement.
 
Usually you include windows and doors to cover the price of beading or forming corners and for the time taken to render the reveals. If you take the windows and doors out then expect a lm rate for beading and reveals.

Are you talking about 2 coat render in sand & cement or sand & cement base coat with a k rend top coat? Be careful if you are going for the sand & cement base coat, get it wrong and it will cost you.
 
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I think he wants two coat traditional not krend top just a smooth finish that can be painted.

sand and cement will cost tho, cheap to buy but the labour of trowelin a scratch coat, allowing to fully dry out and then coming back again trowelling a top coat will outweight the price of a bagged mortar render done in one visit/application
 
plasterjfe said:
I think he wants two coat traditional not krend top just a smooth finish that can be painted.

sand and cement will cost tho, cheap to buy but the labour of trowelin a scratch coat, allowing to fully dry out and then coming back again trowelling a top coat will outweight the price of a bagged mortar render done in one visit/application
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I have to disagree on sand and cement being more expensive i would say the labour will be the same but the materials are a lot cheaper.
 
labour would be alot less flinn much quicker to pump a bagged product than go twice with sand and cement IMO.
 
plasterjfe said:
labour would be alot less flinn much quicker to pump a bagged product than go twice with sand and cement IMO.
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You might need to scratch with a bagged product you also have to bead up, its also a big area you aint gonna do in one day and the main thing is, your saying your charging a cheaper metre rate for bagged products to sand and cement?
 
yeah mate IMO matching industry rates for sand and cement is fair, as do most of our competitors - have to otherwise people would not switch from sand and cement but the scope to go even lower is there with a machine using a bagged product, not that we would, damaging the industry further from already cheap cheap rates is not my agenda - but i know a few people charging around 15% less than S&C doing a bagged mortar option
 
It all depends what your charging for sand and cement so the 15% dont come into it, Lets say krend is £10 a bag for a metre then take into account £10 per metre for base coat then the beads on top, i know its a bit cheaper and might go a bit more than a metre but for arguements sake thats over £20 a metre before labour, whats the cost of sand and cement?
 
mono and base coat is about £13 p\m materials. how much does the paint cost to put 2-3 coats on sand and cement afterwards? how much is the labour. will the weather be good enough to paint it at this time of year? how much is the scaffold to stay up? how much will it cost not getting the groundwork sorted out in the meantime?
 
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If the building needs a pre rend for mono it could still need one for sand cement thought you'd know that flynny jiblets no one will know unless they see the job
 
plasterjfe said:
I think he wants two coat traditional not krend top just a smooth finish that can be painted.

sand and cement will cost tho, cheap to buy but the labour of trowelin a scratch coat, allowing to fully dry out and then coming back again trowelling a top coat will outweight the price of a bagged mortar render done in one visit/application
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spot on, mono work is based on or similar to a sand/cement finsh for the reasons given.
 
So the conclusion is what? s&c is the same as krend in price once its added together? the labour is cheaper for krend against sand and cement? Coz you might have a machine you can do it cheaper? Lets not go on about weather conditions coz both systems have their advantages and disadvantages but i think krend is a lot more expensive compaired to sand and cement. Lets say we have a square wall of 50m no beads or windows, 2 men, one gang with a machine one on a mixer applying by hand, the gang doing the hand applied are using s&c the machine lads doin the krend. Its gonna take the s&c lads two days and the krend lads do it in one day they are both getting the same metre rate who will make the most profit? Its not an arguement boys just a discussion....................................but if you want an argument we can have one :)
 
No let's go back to the bit where you said mono costs more because you need to use a pre rend
 
on one wall on block. the rates should be the same for labour. the machine guys will then obviously make the most money per day. for the client, the total cost should be very similar when he takes into account paint etc. the cost of painting should about cancel out the extra cost of the mono material. mono turnaround time is quicker so it should be the better choice. on domestic it is a little messier
 
flynnyman said:
So the conclusion is what? s&c is the same as krend in price once its added together? the labour is cheaper for krend against sand and cement? Coz you might have a machine you can do it cheaper? Lets not go on about weather conditions coz both systems have their advantages and disadvantages but i think krend is a lot more expensive compaired to sand and cement. Lets say we have a square wall of 50m no beads or windows, 2 men, one gang with a machine one on a mixer applying by hand, the gang doing the hand applied are using s&c the machine lads doin the krend. Its gonna take the s&c lads two days and the krend lads do it in one day they are both getting the same metre rate who will make the most profit? Its not an arguement boys just a discussion....................................but if you want an argument we can have one :)
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cant be bothered arguing.
 
were doing a 350m2 house in paignton at the moment applying mono using machine, there is a site next door where the developer is building 2 detached houses which he normally has s/c rendered.
He is literally pis.sing his pants with joy watching how quick we have done the house, how quick the scaffold came down etc and he wants us to do his 2 houses.

there is no argument what so ever, it is much much quicker and the savings in scaffold, painting, and just general time savings make it an obvious choice for developers etc.

Flynny shut your pie hole lol x
 
nickelarse said:
on one wall on block. the rates should be the same for labour. the machine guys will then obviously make the most money per day. for the client, the total cost should be very similar when he takes into account paint etc. the cost of painting should about cancel out the extra cost of the mono material. mono turnaround time is quicker so it should be the better choice. on domestic it is a little messier
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Forget the paint im on about the prices the plasterers are getting and i noticed you added block, I agree with the paint issue and ive mentioned this to clients in the past but they always say i will do the painting myself so there not always arsed about the painted ( It is an added cost) will the machine guy make the most money when the price of the materials is deducted?
 
richardbrown said:
were doing a 350m2 house in paignton at the moment applying mono using machine, there is a site next door where the developer is building 2 detached houses which he normally has s/c rendered.
He is literally pis.sing his pants with joy watching how quick we have done the house, how quick the scaffold came down etc and he wants us to do his 2 houses.

there is no argument what so ever, it is much much quicker and the savings in scaffold, painting, and just general time savings make it an obvious choice for developers etc.

Flynny shut your pie hole lol x
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Have you given him the price yet? be honest :) And lets all remember rendering is only quicker weather dependant.
 
not if the price of rate is the same including materials. the labour should be the same.

as for brickwork. i could spray a 50m wall with microgobitis in about 15 mins. then spray the mono about 2 hours later. so not a lot of difference.
 
flynnyman said:
Forget the paint im on about the prices the plasterers are getting and i noticed you added block, I agree with the paint issue and ive mentioned this to clients in the past but they always say i will do the painting myself so there not always arsed about the painted ( It is an added cost) will the machine guy make the most money when the price of the materials is deducted?
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per day machining mono should make you more money than hand applying sand and cement
 
nickelarse said:
not if the price of rate is the same including materials. the labour should be the same.

as for brickwork. i could spray a 50m wall with microgobitis in about 15 mins. then spray the mono about 2 hours later. so not a lot of difference.
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No mesh?
So lets say the 50m wall is worth £2000 whats it gonna cost in microgobitis, mesh and krend and then S&C with a bit of lime and a waterproofer? then lets see whats left over. Heres an easier way £10 metre labour plus mono lets say £25 the same £10 metre labour sand and cement materials £15 if it takes twice as long there still getting £10 a metre both days but need less work.
 
I gave him a m2 rate of £25 supply and fit, I must be honest and say he didnt know how much he normally pays for 2 coat sand cement work.
Regardless of price its the speed that impressed him, we started Monday and today half the scaffold came down and half the house is complete if it was s/c then it would be no where near ready.

I dont mind saying I charge £25 a square supply and fit, how much would 2 coat render inc painting with a quality paint be per m2?????.

Flynn I dont think mono is a better product then s/c in fact I think it is shi.t but today all the developers want is a quick finish which mono does beautifully
 
richardbrown said:
I gave him a m2 rate of £25 supply and fit, I must be honest and say he didnt know how much he normally pays for 2 coat sand cement work.
Regardless of price its the speed that impressed him, we started Monday and today half the scaffold came down and half the house is complete if it was s/c then it would be no where near ready.

I dont mind saying I charge £25 a square supply and fit, how much would 2 coat render inc painting with a quality paint be per m2?????.

Flynn I dont think mono is a better product then s/c in fact I think it is shi.t but today all the developers want is a quick finish which mono does beautifully
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I also think s&C is a better product and sometimes they want it done quicker and with a machine sometimes it is quicker, like i said earlier forget the paint what do you think sand and cement costs a metre in materials? im not too sure. Also what about waste on mono? as you know sand and cement travels to every job and if you run short it can be picked up easily enough. Also render isnt really designed to be painted so the fiunish can be thesand and cement itself.

Its just a debate boys so keep it nice xxxxx
 
flynnyman said:
No mesh?
So lets say the 50m wall is worth £2000 whats it gonna cost in microgobitis, mesh and krend and then S&C with a bit of lime and a waterproofer? then lets see whats left over. Heres an easier way £10 metre labour plus mono lets say £25 the same £10 metre labour sand and cement materials £15 if it takes twice as long there still getting £10 a metre both days but need less work.
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the thing ur missing is a 50m wall worth 2k for s+c isnt worth 2k for mono. so your example is a bit flawed. the LABOUR SHOULD BE THE SAME!!! if one takes a day and one takes 2, then the person taking 1 day earns double.

so if the wall is worth say 1k labour, and s+c is £500, and mono £1k for example i no thats not accurate, then the wall being mono'd would cost more. this is hard work!!
 
As far as I am concerned that is the main stress for me using mono, ordering in the correct amount. It is expensive at about £10 a bag/m2. The gear I use (Marmorit) is ordered in from Germany so you have to be bang on with the quants else you end up short or have bags left over. I have a pallet of various left over colours in my store which I use for beading, dubbing out etc so it doesnt get wasted.
 
nickelarse said:
the thing ur missing is a 50m wall worth 2k for s+c isnt worth 2k for mono. so your example is a bit flawed. the LABOUR SHOULD BE THE SAME!!! if one takes a day and one takes 2, then the person taking 1 day earns double.

so if the wall is worth say 1k labour, and s+c is £500, and mono £1k for example i no thats not accurate, then the wall being mono'd would cost more. this is hard work!!
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your makin it confusing so if i price £2000 you will charge more? could of sworn without goin back through the threads it was said the price would be the same but done in a quicker time.
 
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