Internal Hardwall and Sand/Cement

FreeD

Private Member
#1
Hardwall in particular and sand and cement in my opinion are shite...the amount of houses I've seen which have solid plaster and have hairline cracks all over the place which come back through after skimming unless you use a mesh.

Don't know what the cause of the cracking is but maybe because Hardwall (especially if put of thin around 10mm) is weak, when I've removed some of these 'solid finishes' the hardwall is like powder, the finish is stronger.

Always plasterboard for me, if customer insists on hardwall/sand&cement, needs a glass fibre mesh in it.

Thoughts?
 

theclemo

Private Member
#4
Sand and cement and hardwall is far the better finish then putting plasterboard on a solid wall. It don't make sense putting soft plasterboard on a solid wall.
 

Olican

Bum Fisting Club
#5
Yes but I think these cracks appear over time...I can't imagine they all appear as drying.
Ive seen plasterers float all day then skim the next and struggle to fight the suction. With hardwall I've always float&set same day , never had a problem
 

theclemo

Private Member
#6
I find hardwall moves a bit after u edge it. If u get it all flat. Go back 20min later and put the edge on the wall where it was flat and u will see it has moved a bit.
 

Havagojo

Active Member
#7
Ive seen plasterers float all day then skim the next and struggle to fight the suction. With hardwall I've always float&set same day , never had a problem
Hardwall 10/15mm scratch lightly
Hardwall/ m.finish (70/30) 5mm unscratched
MF as soon as poss
Bring back sand and cement and get me a new elbow
 

theclemo

Private Member
#8
We spra
Hardwall 10/15mm scratch lightly
Hardwall/ m.finish (70/30) 5mm unscratched
MF as soon as poss
Bring back sand and cement and get me a new elbow
We spray the sand and cement on inside. Find it far faster than hardwall. As we can just float out all the house and then go skimming.
 

malc

TPF Special Forces
#9
if the wall has mixed blocks , bricks, straight joints. then plasterboard is best.
on an even suction i like hardwall.
sand and cement floating is a thing of the past. most labourers are as weak as piss and can not carry a hod for 8 hours a day.
there is a medium size local firm, who have their properties floated in sand and cement which they call "traditional build". i think it is more like a 60s build.
 

Smudger1

Well-Known Member
#10
S&c is best imo, I've used it long enough to bang it on and get it flat quick enough to earn good off it. Boards for studs and ceilings unless insisted on elsewhere.
Only get hairline cracks after it's skimmed and fully dried out which paint makes disappear for good. Hardwalls ok but if big areas snc i prefer.
 
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FreeD

Private Member
#11
Problem with sand and cement is some plasterers use a strong mix, next day skim it, then it shrinks and cracks
 

FreeD

Private Member
#12
For me you can't go wrong with boards, plenty of adhesive, nice and tight against the wall, solid enough, quick and minimal mess
 

Djr

Well-Known Member
#13
We float hardwall till 11 o'clock. Turn back and skim same day never had it crack or toughcoat either. That's on new clockwork it can be a bit cultish in old houses but I soak the walls 1st
 

Vincey

Private Member
#16
Tbf plasterboard is absolute rubbish product compared to sand and cement and hardwall imo anyway, I wouldn’t put mesh in either too just waste of time ,
Heard on grapevine backing coats will take over plasterboard in the not to distance future and tbh can’t come soon enough
 

FreeD

Private Member
#17
We float hardwall till 11 o'clock. Turn back and skim same day never had it crack or toughcoat either. That's on new clockwork it can be a bit cultish in old houses but I soak the walls 1st
As you say got to be same day...I'm just suspicious about Hardwall generally, I've seen so many jobs, mainly on blocks with hairline cracks all over (which come back through when you over skim)
 

Djr

Well-Known Member
#18
As you say got to be same day...I'm just suspicious about Hardwall generally, I've seen so many jobs, mainly on blocks with hairline cracks all over (which come back through when you over skim)
Hardwall is a top quality product it's miss easy to spread imo like cream. I don't do much overskim jobs as I'm a site plasterer but in the few I've done I've never known it crack
 

Djr

Well-Known Member
#19
Tbf plasterboard is absolute rubbish product compared to sand and cement and hardwall imo anyway, I wouldn’t put mesh in either too just waste of time ,
Heard on grapevine backing coats will take over plasterboard in the not to distance future and tbh can’t come soon enough
Well put sick to death of dabbing it's a shite system
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
#20
Tbf plasterboard is absolute rubbish product compared to sand and cement and hardwall imo anyway, I wouldn’t put mesh in either too just waste of time ,
Heard on grapevine backing coats will take over plasterboard in the not to distance future and tbh can’t come soon enough
I had a chat with my local BG rep about seven years ago and he reckoned that BG wanted things to go back to solid plastering. He looked totally puzzled when I said it'd never happen due to a lack of the needed skills in the industry.
 

Squarehead

Well-Known Member
#21
If s&c or hardwall I always mesh to prevent future hairlines. Prefer to board as gap gives a slightly warmer wall and away from block or brick that moves and cracks plaster. Always pva/SBR s&c if finishing with multi to prevent shelling.
 

Havagojo

Active Member
#22
If s&c or hardwall I always mesh to prevent future hairlines. Prefer to board as gap gives a slightly warmer wall and away from block or brick that moves and cracks plaster. Always pva/SBR s&c if finishing with multi to prevent shelling.
Never meshed walls of consistent brick/ block other than the concrete lintels or wood, prefer PVA after a week to cure , often lime in the mix , depending on mortar, my dad always skimmed next day, always too much pressure to finish asap
 

beader

Private Member
#23
If s&c or hardwall I always mesh to prevent future hairlines. Prefer to board as gap gives a slightly warmer wall and away from block or brick that moves and cracks plaster. Always pva/SBR s&c if finishing with multi to prevent shelling.
Left to cure and rubbed up properly it won't shell and no cracking.
 

algeeman

It’s A Boy
#24
Hardwall in particular and sand and cement in my opinion are shite...the amount of houses I've seen which have solid plaster and have hairline cracks all over the place which come back through after skimming unless you use a mesh.

Don't know what the cause of the cracking is but maybe because Hardwall (especially if put of thin around 10mm) is weak, when I've removed some of these 'solid finishes' the hardwall is like powder, the finish is stronger.

Always plasterboard for me, if customer insists on hardwall/sand&cement, needs a glass fibre mesh in it.

Thoughts?
Every property has movement.
This is where cracks appears....nothing to do with the plaster.
Heat and cold will swell and shrink and cause hairline cracks.
Obviously mesh over timber and stress areas....but dabbing without a doubt is the worst for movement.
 

Squarehead

Well-Known Member
#25
Advice we received in late 90s from bg was to use board finish on next day s&c rather than multi. I don't do that, I just use multi but sbr s&c first, with mesh in backing. Each to their own.
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
#26
Advice we received in late 90s from bg was to use board finish on next day s&c rather than multi. I don't do that, I just use multi but sbr s&c first, with mesh in backing. Each to their own.
You just shouldn't be skimming S&C next day, full stop. Should be left five days summer, seven days winter.
 

ChrispyUK

Well-Known Member
#27
You just shouldn't be skimming S&C next day, full stop. Should be left five days summer, seven days winter.
What about hardwall Andy, next day or same day? Just did a couple of walls next day...sucked in quick, but seemed OK.
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
#28
What about hardwall Andy, next day or same day? Just did a couple of walls next day...sucked in quick, but seemed OK.
I've done both mate.
If you're fast and neat next day can work brilliantly. Two neat coats and then two passes of the trowel and a wall can be finished before moving on to the next wall. Obviously depending on wall sizes.
 

ChrispyUK

Well-Known Member
#29
I've done both mate.
If you're fast and neat next day can work brilliantly. Two neat coats and then two passes of the trowel and a wall can be finished before moving on to the next wall. Obviously depending on wall sizes.
Thank you.

Came out fine. Caught me a bit un awhere as I was skimming some board at same time, but is it like bonding where you can get blistering if over coating too soon? Or to put it another way, roughly how long to leave before top coat?
 

beader

Private Member
#30
Can't belive some skim sand and cement the same day .It just can't be done.
 

Squarehead

Well-Known Member
#31
Ok, so how many on here skim s&c next day? I always have done.
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
#33
Thank you.

Came out fine. Caught me a bit un awhere as I was skimming some board at same time, but is it like bonding where you can get blistering if over coating too soon? Or to put it another way, roughly how long to leave before top coat?
I can't say that I've ever experienced that Chris.
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
#35
Ok, so how many on here skim s&c next day? I always have done.
I can guarantee that loads of your skim won't be attached to the S&C backing within days of you finishing. I witnessed it plenty of times where the skim has just stood there shelled for years and years before it gets noticed. I've also seen it where it has been noticed almost straight away.
S&C shrinks, fact, and no amount of devil floating will make the gypsum finish plaster, which is rigid and brittle, move with it.
 
Love CBD