Fireplace

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oasis

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Do you have to use sand and cement on the face and sides of the chimney bread when a open fire will be getting installed? say hardwall everything from brickwork then sand and cement on the inside?

never sure so i always sand and cement
 
the only reason i asjk is that u can back it all out and skim in day 1 and also scrach the fire place day 2 just top the fireplace.. :-0 just thinkin of ht ecash flow and time
 
well it has to be done right mate so you dont have any comebacks inside the fire place do a weak mix with lime and mesh embeded in scratch
 
I'm with Madmonk but this is always open for contension, what is a good mix for a fire place, I'd go for a 5:1 scratch and 6:1 top coat and match it on the face of breast as that takes a load of the heat too, but I've seen people dab wall boards into the fire place round a log burner, not good!! :eek:
 
No mesh, sorry Spunk the heat can make it expand and crack the render, so they say anyway, seriously though Oasis you know the answer to your question just price the job properly and do it properly
 
I dabbed the breast of a fireplace for a builder. Have since learnt he's put a log burner in. Am I going to get comebacks?
 
I've looked everywhere on net for some hard and fast rules about log burners and all that I can find on the subject is the building regs regarding the actual inertior of the fireplace, which must be of a solid non-combustable material, render, concrete or brick etc. However I've always gone with the fact that open fires and log burners generate a great deal of heat which gypsum plasters just arn't designed to cope with so as a rule of thumd I'd always recommend s&c to the face of the breast if to used for an open fire, no phone calls about cracked plaster!
 
anyhow i put a Price in 2 sand and cement a basic chimney breast. went in at £325 , its hard to price as its easy but its your time.. 2 coats and a skim finish do you think that's to cheap ? as the people said it was way more than they fort it would ever be!
 
Are u saying you would 2 coat the sand and cement sides and face in a day? Rather than scrach and return. Then pop back to skim
 
scratch and float in the mornin gone for 12 then back in the mornin to skim gone for 11 it is two days time but is there such thing as half a day? hmmmmmmmmmmmm been discused in the past :)
 
That's true, if it's half a day it's a full days pay ;)
I never charge for half a day waste of time.
 
i fort it was bad to do 2 coats in one day? i fort building up render quite thick in one day would cause more cracks? and as for commin back the next day 2 skim i also fort you were to give it a few days to shrink in case of cracks lol good i must treat sand and cement like royalty! not to say i havent done 2 coats on large patchs before within a day.. apply coat lelt it pull in then top again.. ect
 
yes Oasis sand and cement the breast,its the best job for solid open fires. RMK dont worry too much about dabbing the breast,as it was for a builder and it is a log burning stove, just hope you didnt dab inside the fire as this should be done in sand and cement with mesh,bonding with mesh or vermiculite tiles ,hope this helps
 
oasis said:
i fort it was bad to do 2 coats in one day? i fort building up render quite thick in one day would cause more cracks? and as for commin back the next day 2 skim i also fort you were to give it a few days to shrink in case of cracks lol good i must treat sand and cement like royalty! not to say i havent done 2 coats on large patchs before within a day.. apply coat lelt it pull in then top again.. ect
na get your mixes right and it shouldnt crack, shouldnt need to be thick either, and should be sound to skim the next day.
 
Seems to be some variation in techinique to a fireplace...

Are there any plasterers on the forum that have experience with this?

As well as doing normal fireplaces, there must have been some guys that have had to plaster prestigious places like big halls or stately homes? Imagine the heat from one of those fireplaces! If that can hold then it should be good enough for anything i'd imagine.

What is the traditional way they did fireplaces?
 
Onecoater said:
Seems to be some variation in techinique to a fireplace...

Are there any plasterers on the forum that have experience with this?

As well as doing normal fireplaces, there must have been some guys that have had to plaster prestigious places like big halls or stately homes? Imagine the heat from one of those fireplaces! If that can hold then it should be good enough for anything i'd imagine.

What is the traditional way they did fireplaces?

usually brick, stone or cast iron finish and maybe tiles but sand and cement or a lime morter finish but some lads want to be in and out.
 
flynnyman said:
oasis said:
i fort it was bad to do 2 coats in one day? i fort building up render quite thick in one day would cause more cracks? and as for commin back the next day 2 skim i also fort you were to give it a few days to shrink in case of cracks lol good i must treat sand and cement like royalty! not to say i havent done 2 coats on large patchs before within a day.. apply coat lelt it pull in then top again.. ect
na get your mixes right and it shouldnt crack, shouldnt need to be thick either, and should be sound to skim the next day.

what do call the right mix, added fibers in scratch coat 4-1 and a 6-1 finish? with added lime in top coat and waterproof in scratch?
 
oasis said:
flynnyman said:
oasis said:
i fort it was bad to do 2 coats in one day? i fort building up render quite thick in one day would cause more cracks? and as for commin back the next day 2 skim i also fort you were to give it a few days to shrink in case of cracks lol good i must treat sand and cement like royalty! not to say i havent done 2 coats on large patchs before within a day.. apply coat lelt it pull in then top again.. ect
na get your mixes right and it shouldnt crack, shouldnt need to be thick either, and should be sound to skim the next day.

what do call the right mix, added fibers in scratch coat 4-1 and a 6-1 finish? with added lime in top coat and waterproof in scratch?

Render usually cracks for 3 reasons, 1) movement............... not much you can do about that
2) mixes toooooooooooooooooooooooooooo strong...................dont use too much cement
3) Drying toooooooooooooooooooooooooo quick................................control the suction on your background.............................oh sorry should of said 4) maybe if its toooooooooooooooooooooooooo thick oh i should of said 5) top coat stronger than your scratch........................................oh my god i should of really said 6) using the wrong sand so there you go. oooooooooooh no ive just remembered 7) lack of key on background.......................oh yeh maybe 8 ) but this could come under 3) but could be caused by drying toooooooooooooooooooooooo quick coz of the room temperature so on that note im sure you will agree there is a bit more to it than throwing it all on the wall :) oh yeh lime may help but thats another episode :p
 
I seen the job Flat boy has done in that house, its 1st class.What makes it even better is he is such a fwacking knob and has dine a cracking job.
 
Anybody use the vitcas system? What's it like to use and what's the process? I assume this is the 'no-come back' solution.
Ps- Cheers for the comments spreadz. Feel a bit better now! Obviously I wouldn't dab the inside of a chimney breast.
 
RMK said:
Anybody use the vitcas system? What's it like to use and what's the process? I assume this is the 'no-come back' solution.
Ps- Cheers for the comments spreadz. Feel a bit better now! Obviously I wouldn't dab the inside of a chimney breast.
i have just done a job with it base coat and finish coat ,its not nice to use but its heat proof
 
RMK said:
Anybody use the vitcas system? What's it like to use and what's the process? I assume this is the 'no-come back' solution.
Ps- Cheers for the comments spreadz. Feel a bit better now! Obviously I wouldn't dab the inside of a chimney breast.


Dabbed the inside of loads of fire places and never had any come backs, but to be honest there wasnt any survivors ;)
 
flynnyman said:
RMK said:
Anybody use the vitcas system? What's it like to use and what's the process? I assume this is the 'no-come back' solution.
Ps- Cheers for the comments spreadz. Feel a bit better now! Obviously I wouldn't dab the inside of a chimney breast.


Dabbed the inside of loads of fire places and never had any come backs, but to be honest there wasnt any survivors ;)
lol ;D you should have used fireline
 
flynnyman said:
oasis said:
flynnyman said:
oasis said:
i fort it was bad to do 2 coats in one day? i fort building up render quite thick in one day would cause more cracks? and as for commin back the next day 2 skim i also fort you were to give it a few days to shrink in case of cracks lol good i must treat sand and cement like royalty! not to say i havent done 2 coats on large patchs before within a day.. apply coat lelt it pull in then top again.. ect
na get your mixes right and it shouldnt crack, shouldnt need to be thick either, and should be sound to skim the next day.
[/quote
There you go all you have to do is listen to someone with experience who knows what they are talking about

what do call the right mix, added fibers in scratch coat 4-1 and a 6-1 finish? with added lime in top coat and waterproof in scratch?

Render usually cracks for 3 reasons, 1) movement............... not much you can do about that
2) mixes toooooooooooooooooooooooooooo strong...................dont use too much cement
3) Drying toooooooooooooooooooooooooo quick................................control the suction on your background.............................oh sorry should of said 4) maybe if its toooooooooooooooooooooooooo thick oh i should of said 5) top coat stronger than your scratch........................................oh my god i should of really said 6) using the wrong sand so there you go. oooooooooooh no ive just remembered 7) lack of key on background.......................oh yeh maybe 8 ) but this could come under 3) but could be caused by drying toooooooooooooooooooooooo quick coz of the room temperature so on that note im sure you will agree there is a bit more to it than throwing it all on the wall :) oh yeh lime may help but thats another episode :p
 
Just posted some questions in an old thread not realising it was in the DIY section so I'll try again here.

Is one 10cm coat of sand lime cem render with 1 coat of vitcas finishing plaster okay for opening around log burner?

Does the render have to be fully dry before vitcas applied? If so should the render be Pva'd or Blue gritted or other?
 
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