minimum wage

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john simpson

john simpson

Well-Known Member
Apparently it will be a tenner an hour in the next year or two.
£400 a week for a job anyone can do , totally unskilled , min pay min effort.
Holiday pay , sick pay , time in lieu , contracts etc.

So what's gonna happen all the builders and trades?
Whats our minimum wage PAYE going to be , will we now get GTD contracts and all the benefits?
Self-Employed then surely we need a very high PH rate to compete with lack of benefits and running of small business?

Ive been explaining how most of the lads on one site were working for less than minimum wage when they counted in benefits , insurance , running of van , fuel , etc etc.
That caused some row :) its as well i was only there a week for a fill in :)

I think its a good thing , £10PH PAYE , easy to work out a minimum wage for a skilled trade
Thoughts
 
john simpson said:
Apparently it will be a tenner an hour in the next year or two.
£400 a week for a job anyone can do , totally unskilled , min pay min effort.
Holiday pay , sick pay , time in lieu , contracts etc.

So what's gonna happen all the builders and trades?
Whats our minimum wage PAYE going to be , will we now get GTD contracts and all the benefits?
Self-Employed then surely we need a very high PH rate to compete with lack of benefits and running of small business?

Ive been explaining how most of the lads on one site were working for less than minimum wage when they counted in benefits , insurance , running of van , fuel , etc etc.
That caused some row :) its as well i was only there a week for a fill in :)

I think its a good thing , £10PH PAYE , easy to work out a minimum wage for a skilled trade
Thoughts
Click to expand...
As self employed you can still make a loss.
People will still be question why you charge so much when unskilled gets 10/hr plus paid and sick leave and even if their ni contribution not paid by the employer they still receive a pension
Trades have to give their head a shake when quoting stupidly low prices and grafting for less than before recession rates.
Issue is if you can't run a business shouldn't be self employed, as you say there's additional costs from advertising, accountant, insurances, taxes etc, people tend to forget about it
 
zolco said:
Trades have to give their head a shake when quoting stupidly low prices and grafting for less than before recession rates.
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Self employed/businesses decide what to set their rates at. Self employed/businesses complain their rates are too low. o_O

Now I'm no business guru, but it seems pretty clear where the problem is, and equally clear how it can be sorted.
 
I agree , so with a simple minimum wage set for unskilled PAYE then trades can easily see they need to push their rates way up.
Then decent trades will also have to push their rates up.
Its a win/win and can only be a good thing
 
imago said:
Self employed/businesses decide what to set their rates at. Self employed/businesses complain their rates are too low. o_O

Now I'm no business guru, but it seems pretty clear where the problem is, and equally clear how it can be sorted.
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Thing is on sites too many middle man i imagine, regardless of people have a system in place to get things done or can make it pay. My problem is with the make it pay part
 
Minimum wage down here for a plasterer seems to be around £15 an hour that's what the agencies start at anyway.
 
Not sure what a standard rate directly employed by a builder with van holiday etc would be though.
 
john simpson said:
Apparently it will be a tenner an hour in the next year or two.
£400 a week for a job anyone can do , totally unskilled , min pay min effort.
Holiday pay , sick pay , time in lieu , contracts etc.

So what's gonna happen all the builders and trades?
Whats our minimum wage PAYE going to be , will we now get GTD contracts and all the benefits?
Self-Employed then surely we need a very high PH rate to compete with lack of benefits and running of small business?

Ive been explaining how most of the lads on one site were working for less than minimum wage when they counted in benefits , insurance , running of van , fuel , etc etc.
That caused some row :) its as well i was only there a week for a fill in :)

I think its a good thing , £10PH PAYE , easy to work out a minimum wage for a skilled trade
Thoughts
Click to expand...

I've mentioned about this before...and there was backlash on here. My missus is a pharmacy manager hasn't had a pay rise in 6 years...she's on £20 an hour. While her staff who run the checkouts etc have gone from £6.50 to £10 an hour...where is the fairness in that?

Skilled trades were on £200 a day 10 years ago...we should be on £250 to £300 a day minimum.

I've tried to push my prices up recently but customers simply won't pay it...70% won't even pay the cost for 2 of us my rate £200 a day plus the lad that's with me £100 a day.

I've been asking recently for feedback on prices...looked at a job patching a full re wire (recommendation) quoted £600...someone else came in at £250...

When you have mugs putting in these kind of prices we are all going to suffer.
 
I
FreeD said:
I've mentioned about this before...and there was backlash on here. My missus is a pharmacy manager hasn't had a pay rise in 6 years...she's on £20 an hour. While her staff who run the checkouts etc have gone from £6.50 to £10 an hour...where is the fairness in that?

Skilled trades were on £200 a day 10 years ago...we should be on £250 to £300 a day minimum.

I've tried to push my prices up recently but customers simply won't pay it...70% won't even pay the cost for 2 of us my rate £200 a day plus the lad that's with me £100 a day.

I've been asking recently for feedback on prices...looked at a job patching a full re wire (recommendation) quoted £600...someone else came in at £250...

When you have mugs putting in these kind of prices we are all going to suffer.
Click to expand...
Sames, over here is similar, worse prices than over with yous, but similar problems. people just wont pay it it u up the price, some other mug will do it for less. Cheaper is rarely better. And for the site work, theres a few big outfits drive the prices/rates down. Sure what else do u do lol
 
FreeD said:
I've mentioned about this before...and there was backlash on here. My missus is a pharmacy manager hasn't had a pay rise in 6 years...she's on £20 an hour. While her staff who run the checkouts etc have gone from £6.50 to £10 an hour...where is the fairness in that?

Skilled trades were on £200 a day 10 years ago...we should be on £250 to £300 a day minimum.

I've tried to push my prices up recently but customers simply won't pay it...70% won't even pay the cost for 2 of us my rate £200 a day plus the lad that's with me £100 a day.

I've been asking recently for feedback on prices...looked at a job patching a full re wire (recommendation) quoted £600...someone else came in at £250...

When you have mugs putting in these kind of prices we are all going to suffer.
Click to expand...
I know guys that still work for £120 a day, self employed. But I don't think I'd get away with charging myself out at the figures you describe.
 
If your not earning at least £200 a day what is the point of being self employed? there are much easier ways to make money
 
This is why I was so frustrated when NI was supposed to go up...it was like a double hit.
 
I went to see a job this week
FreeD said:
If your not earning at least £200 a day what is the point of being self employed? there are much easier ways to make money
Click to expand...
Because being self employed on less than £200 a day earns you more than being directly employed by a builder for say £12 an hour.
 
If your paying a labourer £10 an hour and you are running the business for £15 an hour...no f**king chance would I do that.
 
It's a joke...the problem is to many mugs undercutting...maybe getting a top up on their wages from the government...

Can't see it changing anytime soon...best thing to do is have more stings to your bow...wish I had become a barber they make good money...4 cuts n hour £11 a cut...happy days.
 
FreeD said:
If your paying a labourer £10 an hour and you are running the business for £15 an hour...no f**king chance would I do that.
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i don't think the guys working for £120 a day need labourers. There are loads of new barber shops opening up where I am now, people have cottoned on to that idea. Got business rates and rents to worry about with that. However good barber I know drives a Porsche.
 
Cornelius said:
Not sure what a standard rate directly employed by a builder with van holiday etc would be though.
Click to expand...

I was offered a job at £13 PH with van home PAYE.
Most of the other trades were between £10-£15 PAYE with van.

However the van is needed as its a requirement of the contract they have so they had no choice but to offer it.
So £3 more than minimum wage for a skilled trade , doesnt seem right.

I agree with some of the other posters , when you consider the cost of ordinary living , mortgage , childcare etc then for a skilled trade a modest income of around 30/40k seems about right.

You go in asking for those kind of rates and you get laughed at PAYE.

Yet if these minimum wage levels come in then a lot of trades on say £12PH are gonna start questioning that rate.

Any builders on here got views on it? Good thing or bad?
 
john simpson said:
I was offered a job at £13 PH with van home PAYE.
Most of the other trades were between £10-£15 PAYE with van.

However the van is needed as its a requirement of the contract they have so they had no choice but to offer it.
So £3 more than minimum wage for a skilled trade , doesnt seem right.

I agree with some of the other posters , when you consider the cost of ordinary living , mortgage , childcare etc then for a skilled trade a modest income of around 30/40k seems about right.

You go in asking for those kind of rates and you get laughed at PAYE.

Yet if these minimum wage levels come in then a lot of trades on say £12PH are gonna start questioning that rate.

Any builders on here got views on it? Good thing or bad?
Click to expand...



You can't begrudge anyone be paid £10 lol. My cleaner charges £15 an hour
 
john simpson said:
I was offered a job at £13 PH with van home PAYE.
Most of the other trades were between £10-£15 PAYE with van.

However the van is needed as its a requirement of the contract they have so they had no choice but to offer it.
So £3 more than minimum wage for a skilled trade , doesnt seem right.

I agree with some of the other posters , when you consider the cost of ordinary living , mortgage , childcare etc then for a skilled trade a modest income of around 30/40k seems about right.

You go in asking for those kind of rates and you get laughed at PAYE.

Yet if these minimum wage levels come in then a lot of trades on say £12PH are gonna start questioning that rate.

Any builders on here got views on it? Good thing or bad?
Click to expand...
£13 x 8 hours is £104 a day then tax takes you under a £100 a day. Less than £100 a day but with van and holiday. When I was subbying I used to get about £2000 tax rebate so I used to really look forward to that and treat it as my paid holiday money if that makes sense.
 
gps said:
You can't begrudge anyone be paid £10 lol. My cleaner charges £15 an hour
Click to expand...

absolutely not , the current rate of £7 or whatever is a nonsense when compared to the cost of living!
Yet a measly £10PH starts to creep up to what a lot of trades are working for and that will have to push our minimum wage up.
So the line " honestly isnt much more in the rate , we are down to the wire with this just to get the contract and all that s**t " is going to be put to the test
 
Cornelius said:
£13 x 8 hours is £104 a day then tax takes you under a £100 a day. Less than £100 a day but with van and holiday. When I was subbying I used to get about £2000 tax rebate so I used to really look forward to that and treat it as my paid holiday money if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Yeah lot of discussion about that , id never been PAYE but all the lads said it was a gift , double time on bank holidays and days in leiu , money in the bank every week of the year , if no work they have to send you doing something else, holiday pay etc etc , none of them had the slightest bit of interest in doing homers.
I said about the rebate and they said in no way made up for it.

I only stuck it a few weeks , you had to clock in and trackers and stuff , was like 1984 , went to the shopping centre for a dump one day and got a call asking where i was lol :) i couldnt get used to it.

But i did see the value in it , mortagage and loans easier to get , the work was pish easy , great if you could get used to the management stuff.
 
john simpson said:
I only stuck it a few weeks , you had to clock in and trackers and stuff , was like 1984 , went to the shopping centre for a dump one day and got a call asking where i was lol :) i couldnt get used to it.
Click to expand...

it is difficult to control direct labour.
when o'connells plastering was trading they were a large firm workforce about 200.
the dayworkers got the union rate for their trade, plus a bonus paid in hours i.e. a plasterer would get so many hours for a job , if they needed a van, fuel or tools it was charged against them. sub contractors got a price . dayworkers and subies were kept on different contracts.
 
Pushing the min wage up only increases the cost of living... those labourers on 10 an hour won't suddenly be out driving better cars or buying a new house.. your food bill will go up at least...

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 
Danny said:
Pushing the min wage up only increases the cost of living... those labourers on 10 an hour won't suddenly be out driving better cars or buying a new house.. your food bill will go up at least...

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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Hit the nail on the head, regardless of driving up the minimum wage everything else will creep up as businesses will have to cover the extra outlay.
 
As a result everything costs more, someone on the books on £10 an hour in real terms cost the employer at least £15 an hour
 
It's not Minimum wage that's the issue, I have a few labourers on my books paye. It's all the other benefits to factor in- nat insurance, holiday pay, bank holiday pay, cost of processing wages, pension contributions (now compulsory for employers)paternity pay, the list is endless. I also have a couple of spreads and that's all of the above plus a van, the money I have to charge out just to cover there wages and that's before employers liability insurance for each.
 
Danny said:
Pushing the min wage up only increases the cost of living... those labourers on 10 an hour won't suddenly be out driving better cars or buying a new house.. your food bill will go up at least...

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
So because an unskilled person is sweeping a floor or sweeping the roads he or she is not entitled to steak and chips and a holiday abroad? The greedy bosses , shop owners , restaurant owners, need to loosen the purse strings a bit imo.

And I'm a capitalist btw
 
superspread said:
So because an unskilled person is sweeping a floor or sweeping the roads he or she is not entitled to steak and chips and a holiday abroad? The greedy bosses , shop owners , restaurant owners, need to loosen the purse strings a bit imo.

And I'm a capitalist btw
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Have you any idea how expensive it is to employ someone it's not just the £8 an hour or so it's also most double that in costs to the employer
 
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