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Exactly, difficult to proof the work wasn't required however there are a lack of quotes/estimates and he didn't notify me of the damge prior to carrying out the work. That's his choice but something that will be discussed with the judge.
 
He was having his whole house renovated. What damage do you see in the pictures when it comes to the walls, I'm trying to spot if but my eye can't see it.
 
markrryan said:
Sorry Minh, don't mean to sound rude, I'm looking for an opinion on the plastering, not on the plumbing. I wasn't allowed to finish work that I was contracted to do. I can fight my corner when it comes to the plumbing with ease, that's my expertise. Plastering isn't.

Mark
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Mark i would say the quote is excessive and i would be surprised if that full ceiling was taking down because of the patch cut out it. The damaged part of the ceiling could have been cut away and replaced with plasterboard and then full ceiling could have been skimmed.
 
Spanky,

All he says it that he noticed a damp patch on the ceiling on 29/10 and a plumber rectified the issue on 30/10
 
Fatarm is band on really. But I don't think it will be an issue as in my mind you aren't to blame as you couldn't pressure test and didn't sign it off, blame is with the other plumber in my mind so I wouldn't get to caught up In the plastering side as whether it was excessive or not who's to say it was... And how could you prove otherwise..

good luck anyways
 
I would have thought that the 2nd plumber was at fault as he will be deemed to have 'adopted' the job and will therefore be responsible for pressure testing etc. and the customer is extracting the urine re the decoration. Your insurers should be fighting this not you.
In the meantime, ask for access for your insurers assessor to lift floorboards above the 'removed' laths to see if they are still there. Good luck Mark :RpS_thumbup:
 
Thanks Stuart,

Gives me an idea of what could be done. I do need to go back and see whether signs of the old ceiling still exist. If they do then he's basically lying in his defense.
 
Cheers guys, all in all I was quite positive about it. Judges aren't stupid they come across blaggers (both tradesmen and customers) every day. I just need to give a reasoned arguement.
 
Mark, The quote for the plastering work is within reason. In the judgement of the person carrying out the work (who is a plasterer by trade), it was in his professional opinion that the work he carried out was necessary. You will not be able to win in that respect because the judge will side with the person whose property was damaged, unless you can prove that the work was not carried out as per the invoice.

However, although you are not asking us for advice on the plumbing, you should be aware that if you did not sign off the work, then you are not responsible because you did not complete the work. A leak may have originated from pipe work that you laid, but it was the responsibility of the other plumber to assess and conduct his tests after finishing his work.
 
I can't see no reason why your ceiling can't be made good under normal circumstances ,but again if I had paid for a brand new ceiling I would want a brand new ceiling regardless who's fault caused the damaged,and I'm afraid if its your leak he's coming after you.
 
markrryan said:
I certainly do have public liabilty, never used it but it's in place.

This is what happens in bullet points.

Customer accepts my estimate.
Start work, remove old suite and tiles
Walls need plastering, I'd informed the customer before hand, they said they didn't feel it was needed.
I amend the pipework, waiting for them to make final choices for a radiator before pipework finished.
Meant to finish pipework but had an accident in my van a week earlier, have to pick it up from garage (customer aware of accident).
Phone customer and explain that insted of Friday I'll be there on Monday. This is agreed, job not held up as tiler is in on the Tuesday.
Get a call from the husband on Friday night (9pm) asking why I hadn't been there. Explain situation, told I must be there on Monday.
He calls 10 minutes later daying he's got someone else, I'm effectively sacked with job left halfway carried out.
New plumber come in on a Sunday and does work I was meant to do on the following day, my work was to test, clip and brossbond pipework, re-lay floorboards and fit bath.
Plumber fits bathroom after tiling.
Customer has leak about a month later, he makes no attempt to contact me so I know nothing of it.
After invoicing and sending a reminder I sue for money owed. He counter sues claiming I'm at fault.

That's it in a nut shell.

Mark
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How much are you sueing him for the work you done?
 
From what you've said m8 you were thrown of the job because you'd kept the customer up to date with your comings and goings with regards your accident, this is in your favour and against the customer for being unreasonable unless he can show a reason why he isn't unrreasonable. How did he get another plumber so quick? Is he a bona fide plumber? Why did'nt he test all additional pipework before passingoff? If you'd put all pipework in and water was up to the isolaters with no leaks then obviously they happened after your work, if the pipes had no water in or pressure checked them then they weren't usable. Either way the other plumber is liable not you,regardless of them beingyour fittings, the pipework was'nt tested. So the plaster etc is nothing to do with you regards how much damage. If you don't use your insurer and have to go to court keep it very clean and simple has you have stated to us whats happened. When the customer noticed the leak did he knock the water off and call you immediately ( should be the other plumber really)? if not why not? To reduce the damage? This would be all my questions, i know you said you wanted to know about the plaster but i personally would'nt worry about it, he has to prove you are at fault and if what you say is the truth then he/ the other plumber is at fault and the customer is scamming you, i've been a plumber/ bathroom fitter for over 23 yrs and seenit all and been accused of damage etc, but never yet has a customer scammed me. Good luck.
 
when you take someone to county court , what do you expect.
the case is going to be heard by a lay person, someone who owns a wool shop,
the defendant has put up a good defence, so now the ball is in your court, so unless you can come up with some good answers as regards that fitting you have lost!
 
malc said:
when you take someone to county court , what do you expect.
the case is going to be heard by a lay person, someone who owns a wool shop,
the defendant has put up a good defence, so now the ball is in your court, so unless you can come up with some good answers as regards that fitting you have lost!
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The customers an ass on the make! He threw this lad off the job and took another plumber onto carry on, now if i was to be asked as i have been inthe past, i would check the original plumbers work before i start adding my work to it, then i would highlight to the customer for him to decide what he wants doing? Me to put right or get the original plumber back. This other plumber should have done the same, it appears he did'nt. Ok fittings the op fitted supposedly failed, had they been put under a dry pressure test or wet test they would of failured, not a month later. Once fitted correctly its very unusual for fittings to fail.well not for a few years anyway lol. The testing is the crucial item nothing else.
 
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