Vandex disaster

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johniosaif

Private Member
Fk me you really are old ain't ya :D

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Very fast, i feel hat old some time, been doing family research ,just did the DNA thing where they now say we are not really Fitzpatrick and " a non paternity event occurred " some phrase that is to bastardise us..
 

Olican

Private Member
My full Gaelic name is seaniosaif tomais macgiollapadraig, in 1541 Henry v111 stopped us using the Gaelic and we became Fitzpatrick, this was under a scheme called surrender and regrant wher the Irish lords signed there lands over to the king and were then given it back but under the English monarchy.. Thanks for caring

My Name Oliver mistakenly believed to be of French origin comes from the Germanic Olaf which means 'mover of mountains' My surname Cairns comes from the Scottish Cairn which means a pile of stones used to mark the boundary of lands
 

plasterjfe

Private Member
My Name Oliver mistakenly believed to be of French origin comes from the Germanic Olaf which means 'mover of mountains' My surname Cairns comes from the Scottish Cairn which means a pile of stones used to mark the boundary of lands

So...... John ? What the hell is your real name

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johniosaif

Private Member
My Name Oliver mistakenly believed to be of French origin comes from the Germanic Olaf which means 'mover of mountains' My surname Cairns comes from the Scottish Cairn which means a pile of stones used to mark the boundary of lands
Oddly I am from ballycarnan which translated means home of the rocks, same as cairns Cairne is rocks in GaelicGaelic
 

pasty77

New Member
We have told him this throughout the thread..... He seems to be still looking for diagnosis.


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No,I have totally taken on board what you have told me and understand that condensation is my issue. What I'm trying to get my head around is whether it's worth doing anything to the walls to make them 'warmer' as it were or whether I should just attack the condensation. I suppose I need to get that issue sorted first and see what happens. I do really appreciate all the advice you guys have given.
 

johniosaif

Private Member
How far back have you gone with tracing your ancestry John?
Not far enough, 1831 with Fitzpatrick side, very tough in Ireland ,all census pre 1901 were pulped during First World War,lots of records lost during 1921 civil war, people were too poor also to keep stuff like this, so I did the DNA test on ftdna hoping for jigsaw to fall together, I am addicted to it all, only found one relation in the wars, he was a postmaster in Ireland and therefore under the British and he ended up dead somewhere in 1916 alongside thousands of poor souls.
 

bubbles65

Well-Known Member
My Name Oliver mistakenly believed to be of French origin comes from the Germanic Olaf which means 'mover of mountains' My surname Cairns comes from the Scottish Cairn which means a pile of stones used to mark the boundary of lands

Daddy!
 

Olican

Private Member
My mother has spent the past 20 years studying ancestory and it has become an obsession for her. She has travelled the country going to archives that have not been recorded as they are illegible and had some success with this. She has published 2 books (not on ancestry, on Welsh history) and has a lot of contacts in the Historical Society, this has helped her with research. My father's side is Scottish but has traced it back to Ireland and my mothers side is English but that too has been traced back to Ireland. She has discovered some fascinating characters through her research.
 

johniosaif

Private Member
My mother has spent the past 20 years studying ancestory and it has become an obsession for her. She has travelled the country going to archives that have not been recorded as they are illegible and had some success with this. She has published 2 books (not on ancestry, on Welsh history) and has a lot of contacts in the Historical Society, this has helped her with research. My father's side is Scottish but has traced it back to Ireland and my mothers side is English but that too has been traced back to Ireland. She has discovered some fascinating characters through her research.
The Irish have got everywhere,"never laugh at paddy as he could be your daddy" they are now saying the Irish were in America before Columbus.it was not been conclusively proven yet, Liverpool is very steeped in Irish connections as is Birmingham, Cornwall ,Devon etc are completely linked to the celts of Ireland ,Wales and Scotland, has your mum done the DNA tracing,funny who comes up as cousins, mine said we were originally o Shea but that someone slept with someone or adopted someone so we became fitzpatricks
 

plasterjfe

Private Member
My family, as in my mother and father and their parents are all Liverpool born then before that it starts branch off into Irish but one line does remain English and can be traced to Saxon. Funnily enough it is that surname that has come through and I carry now.

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johniosaif

Private Member
My family, as in my mother and father and their parents are all Liverpool born then before that it starts branch off into Irish but one line does remain English and can be traced to Saxon. Funnily enough it is that surname that has come through and I carry now.

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Big influx into Liverpool during the holocaust(famine) of 1845 to 47 there was a big up roar as they undercut the locals or more precisely as they were starving they could not afford to be fussy, lots of Liverpool Irish are of the orange order side also, not a lot of love between the two, funny old world as we are all interlinked.
 

Olican

Private Member
The Irish have got everywhere,"never laugh at paddy as he could be your daddy" they are now saying the Irish were in America before Columbus.it was not been conclusively proven yet, Liverpool is very steeped in Irish connections as is Birmingham, Cornwall ,Devon etc are completely linked to the celts of Ireland ,Wales and Scotland, has your mum done the DNA tracing,funny who comes up as cousins, mine said we were originally o Shea but that someone slept with someone or adopted someone so we became fitzpatricks
I'm not sure about the DNA trace John, will have to ask.
 

plasterjfe

Private Member
Big influx into Liverpool during the holocaust(famine) of 1845 to 47 there was a big up roar as they undercut the locals or more precisely as they were starving they could not afford to be fussy, lots of Liverpool Irish are of the orange order side also, not a lot of love between the two, funny old world as we are all interlinked.

Two big influx really the first major being late 1700s 1800. The city population doubled over a 15 year period or so the second being 1840s as you mention (potatoe famine). Being a world seaport, second city of the british empire due to its industrial powerhouse reputation and close to Ireland it was most peoples choice also if you wanted to get to new York you would come through Liverpool with its trans Atlantic crossing. It shaped the city and its culture so it did

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adapt

Active Member
Right here goes lol.

This to me sounds like you have a really bad condensation problem.

Basically how I tank, I use K-11 but it all the same stuff if you ask me.

We render a coat of modified render onto the substrate first then we tank onto that two coats of tanking in alt patterns to help with the key.

Now because you now have a potential cold wall there we then put either a stud wall in front of the tanking and insulate or we dab on insulated boards to stop the potential heat loss.

So is the finished walls just single skin, with tanking and then painted ?

If this is the problem then I would suggest you maybe completely wash down the mould then either put a stud wall and insulate or dab insulated boards on the affected areas.

I see it all the time, its more a lifestyle problem, Insulate your house as much as you can, its one of the best ways to help tackle condensation.
 

cp1

New Member
Hi Pasty77,

Don't blame the Vandex - it is a concrete waterproofing slurry for use below ground against water under hydrostatic pressure. Unless your barn is partially underground it was never needed.

It sounds like a clear case of bad advice from building control. Why on earth you'd need to hack off render and apply BB75 above ground and as a surface for decoration is beyond me - I've used Vandex for over 25 years and would never do that.

It is very unlikely to be water coming through the walls as Vandex combined with cement render is impervious. Condensation is the likely culprit. Barns have solid cold walls so usually a dry lining would be needed to provide a dry surface for decoration and also allow some insulation to be installed. That is why only the external walls are effected - they are cold.

It is a big job but I would do two things.

install a lath system over the existing vandex with insualtion including a vapour control layer. Then look at the ventilation in the building - the minimum you need is excellent extraction in the kitchen and any bathrooms, cloaks and utilities. A PIV like a Nuaire flatmaster would be great but should not be required if you already have good extraction and can lift the surface temps of the walls with the insulation.

Good luck with it.

Brilliant advice from Dry rot.
Definitely need humidistat fans to lower the internal RH to 65%, keep furniture off of external walls especially North facing. Trust me I'm a thermal imaging geek!
 

adapt

Active Member
haha well your solution is a fan ? how about tackling the problem rather than the symptoms ?
 

SpankySouthport

Private Member
Two big influx really the first major being late 1700s 1800. The city population doubled over a 15 year period or so the second being 1840s as you mention (potatoe famine). Being a world seaport, second city of the british empire due to its industrial powerhouse reputation and close to Ireland it was most peoples choice also if you wanted to get to new York you would come through Liverpool with its trans Atlantic crossing. It shaped the city and its culture so it did

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Ha potato :D
 

cp1

New Member
@adapt sorry for the delay! Not sure how much you know about condensation!? Condensation is best to combat at source i.e. kitchen and bathroom, as this is where most moisture is produced, first thing I would do is to lower the relative humidity.
 
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adapt

Active Member
Haha I deal with condensation on a regular basis.

Yep I agree with dealing with it at source but you know what people are like, ventilation is the best answer.

I know recommend customers to install extractors with humidistats, its the old drying washing that seems to be the worst culprit.
 

cp1

New Member
How do you check the internal environment for condensation problems? What make of fans do you recommend?
 

adapt

Active Member
Well you have to take the temperature and the humidity of the room then calculate the dew point.

You probably don't need to know all that, just keep the bathroom and kitchen doors closed when in use, don't dry clothes on rads or in doors if possible use a drier.
The best fans to get are the ones with a humidistat build into them, screwfix do them from around £40 I think.

Also make sure you have plenty of insulation in the property, this raises the ambient temperature in the property and helps keep the condensation down.
Its all about getting a routine going in the winter months of containing any humid air.

I have fitted PIV fans into properties but that's usually for landlords or real problem properties.
 

cp1

New Member
Seems like you understand a condensation survey, it's also good to check externally for defects as this can make the walls just below dew point if there is a penetrating damp issue. Even simply allowing good evaporation at the base of external walls will also help with condensation as there is always a cold bridge when floors are solid and walls are particularly damp below dpc level.
I've also found where contractors have tanked a wall and not stopped rising damp this causes condensation issues.
You should contact Nuaire as they have a great range of fans and most importantly do a BPEC course which is absolutely brilliant....This will give you a greater understanding of fans and extract rates and where to install.
 

adapt

Active Member
I have been doing it long enough to know all I need to about humidity and building design regarding where to fit the fans.

The trouble is you have to make sure you explain it properly to them, and it takes a while to learn about it too.

Thanks for the tip about Nuaire I will have a look at that, the good thing nowadays is airflow in buildings is getting taken serious now meaning houses are having it in built during construction
 

cp1

New Member
I take tour point about how long you have been doing your job, but the BPEC IS A MUST!!! Do you know how a PSV system works and how to check it? Where to fit a piv and why? Airflow requirements and measurement, how do you measure airflow? Installation with combustion appliances in the property......combustion gases filling the room rather than going up the chimney.....potentially killing somebody!
Simple things like a condensate trap and drainage for roof ventilating out of the tiled roof are things most people don't even know about.
 

adapt

Active Member
Yes I know a bit about building design as I have done it at college. plus I have a good idea of how a loft is meant to work correctly.
Yeah I know all about saturating humid air with a PIV system and where to fit them and how to get the correct airflow for the size of property as I have fitted a couple.

I don't deal with fires or chimneys but I have checked one before to make sure it wasn't leaking into the loft with a smoke tester

I went to a job today and had to have a look in the loft and the electrician had fitted the bathroom extraction into the roof space lol
Good to see the cowboys are not out of town yet lol.

I very rarely fit these fans as I try to get the customers to change there habits first before shelling out on a expensive system.
They are ideal for landlords though, shame they hate spending money lol
 

carlos

Private Member
We do loads of these normally in 2 bed flats with 5-6 euros living in them.

Nuaire are good fans the dri master and flat master are the ones we use most.
 

adapt

Active Member
Well I was chatting to someone who went and done a damp & timber survey in a 5 bed town house full of polish and he said it was like a hotel.
the rooms full of mattresses and they were even in the bathrooms and on the landings sleeping lol.

Like Victorian times, I will take a look at them PIV's and fans, its always good to have one supplier for stuff.
 

cp1

New Member
Im not on about checking chimneys lol.......extract fans lower the pressure in a building, which can cause the spillage of combustion products from open flue appliances. Which means the combustion gases may fill the room instead of going up the chimney!!!! How do you check this? Do you know what l/s a fan should not exceed?

PIV installation is critical, and the most important thing is?

Get on the BPEC before you end up in prison LOL
 

adapt

Active Member
haha well to be honest with you I have not really pushed PIV as most people I have tried to explain it to just say they will crack a window instead of pay for the installation.
I think I must just attract tight arses lol.

So don't worry mate no chance of me going to prison and also every time a external door opens its going to cause an intake of air from the outside, also I am yet to see an extractor fan that does not push air back into the building when its switched off, or are the ones you fit are air tight ?

Passive houses may cause issues with air changes but most houses have air leaks in them so I cannot see the issue, plus if you have a log burner in the property or and open fire then surely you not that thick to close the door and seal the room ?
Don't forget if you install log burners now you need to have a external air vent install purely for this issue in building regs if the fire is over a certain size I think its 7kw.

If I was you mate I would read some building regs Part L is what you need and should follow when installing anything like this.
 

cp1

New Member
You still haven't answered my questions lol

Adapt-and also every time a external door opens its going to cause an intake of air from the outside

Reading the above you clearly have never measured differential vapour pressure when doing a condensation survey, BS5250 :2002 the pressure is greater internally than externally in the winter (kPa). Anybody that understands condensation knows that vapour pressure is how you measure for condensation.

Im gonna do a skimmy now and ask
how you check the calibration of a hygrometer and how you check a known emmisivity to make sure you calculate the correct dew point? Because what if you are measuring the reflected temperature?

Come on Adpapt its question time, you took the piss out of me when I made my first comment on this forum about installing extract fans to control a condensation problem, now its my turn in front of your fan base. BANTS
:flapper:
 

adapt

Active Member
haha I think your two sides of the same PCA coin my friend Skimmy & CP1

I stated that I don't carry out condensation reports and to be honest with you a good routine in how you deal with humid air is all that's needed, PIV is great in certain circumstances and I am a big fan of them (no pun intended) :RpS_scared:

Spewing your british standards etc don't really interest me, someone asked a question and I tried to put in my two pence worth as this forum is exactly for that, helping people and not having silly little childish debates on something joe blogs has no idea about.
I hope I have not got a fan base to be honest because I sometimes pop on and ask a question or two of some of these guys regarding plastering so I certainly aint perfect when it comes to knowing stuff.
Everyday is a school day buddy, remember that as sometimes the hardest lessons are the best learned.
 

Skimmy1

New Member
I never said I was a member of the PCA my friend, as i'm not, I've done the training that is all

Just answer his question. Surely you do a condensation survey before assuming its rising damp, right?
 
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