Rendering onto timber frame (new-build) house

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ladeda

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Hello...

I am building a timber frame house i the next few months and the whole outside is basically rendered. (abouyt 175m2)

Having looked about and been down to a few suppliers I am frankly a bit bewildered about the number of options for this (and the cost)
:RpS_scared:

Basically the house is built from 140mm stud with 9mm OSB external board and breather paper. then we intend to nail a 50mm vertical batten to the outside to form a cavity and then fix dpc to the batten..

Then comes the confusion... i basically want a fine scraped finish in off white as this link below shows :

Disclaimer


Weber technical tell me that you cant use a backing board on a Timber frame house ?

Basically I am looking for the best finish at the lowest cost !!

please help...
 
Hi Ladeda
I am the Knauf Aquapanel Exterior Cement Board Specification Manager - Richard Lord 07918766577 rlord@knauf.co.uk. The Knauf Aquapanel Exterior is the Ideal Render Carrier Board.
Post your E Mail address, or contact me on the details above, and I will forward through details for the Knauf Aquapanel Exterior so that you can get an idea of the boarding system needed.
If needed, we will be more than happy to supply a boarding spec and assist further with details.
We are BBA Approved, which ticks all the boxes with NHBC, Premier Gaurantee, LABC and all UK building regs.
We are approved for use with numerous render systems, so you can have options on type of finish and price..... (your link shows a Parex finish, which can be applied to Knauf Aquapanel Exterior - as well as others)
There are loads and loads of contractors on this site / page who will be more than happy to price the work (as well as offer boarding options, no doubt), please let us know where your house is and I am sure there will be interested parties getting in touch!
I look forward to hearing from you!
Best Wishes - Richard
 
BTW - Weber do not approve the use of their Pral M (scratch) renders onto a boarded system. This is their equivalent to the finish you are looking at.......
However you can also look at having thin coat renders applied to a board, some of these do give a finish simialr to a scratch finish.... I would advise you think about this and get some samples to look at.
 
50 mm cavity is overkill IMO ......errr 2 inch cavity?

what I would call backing board ,here in Namerica ....no you are not going to put it directly on OSB,but spanned across your drainage cavity should be no problem,IMO I would do some reseaerch on OSB.....for the sake of a few pund.....it is not worth the risk of using ,there are far better products on the market today


"Basically I am looking for the best finish at the lowest cost !!"


Based on that statement ....my guess is ,you would be lots of fun to work for :p
 
authenticlime said:
50 mm cavity is overkill IMO ......errr 2 inch cavity?

what I would call backing board ,here in Namerica ....no you are not going to put it directly on OSB,but spanned across your drainage cavity should be no problem,IMO I would do some reseaerch on OSB.....for the sake of a few pund.....it is not worth the risk of using ,there are far better products on the market today


"Basically I am looking for the best finish at the lowest cost !!"


Based on that statement ....my guess is ,you would be lots of fun to work for :p
Click to expand...


NHBC building standards in the UK call for a minimum 15mm drained and ventilated cavity, in the UK (this is for all types of cladding onto all types of building structures).
However, as UK timber engineering calls for a minimum screw depth of 25mm for the loads expected on most cladding applied onto timber frame structures, there is almost always a minimum of 25mm cavity (unless you want to push the cladding further away to align with another cladding or lower foundations or blockwork)......
 
ladeda

Where is the job ? We have just completed a timber frame complete with render finish and BBA. you are right to the point of having the ply or osb/breather membrane/dpc etc but you will be better off with a 25mm vertical batten. save money on wood and fixings 50mm is overkill.

you should look at the boards RUNSWITHSCISSORS recommends - thats what we use for this work.
 
Hi everyone, thanks very much for all the replies I will ty to answer some of the issues :

1. The house is in Essex not too far from "Sunny" Southend on Sea

2. We are using a 50mm batten because we are having a brickwork plinth around the bottom of the house with a shaped stretcher detail. as Richard suggests we want the cladding further out as 25mm gap doesnt allow bottom of the rendering to come down nicely to the top of the brick.

3. It appears that by ringing Weber I might have confused the issue!!

4. I would be interested in what thickness of aqua panel boarding is required.

5. We have about 175m sq in total to do

6. I would interested in what systems would be suitable for a domestic house that would go onto the boarding.. giving the Parex type finish...

thanks again everyone...
 
Iwould have thought that there is to much movement in a new timber frame house to clad directly on and mono knowing how brittle mono and how much movement you get in timber frame, every rendered timber frame ive built its been rendered onto blockwork sounds a cheap way of doing things.
 
ladeda said:
Hi everyone, thanks very much for all the replies I will ty to answer some of the issues :

1. The house is in Essex not too far from "Sunny" Southend on Sea

2. We are using a 50mm batten because we are having a brickwork plinth around the bottom of the house with a shaped stretcher detail. as Richard suggests we want the cladding further out as 25mm gap doesnt allow bottom of the rendering to come down nicely to the top of the brick.

3. It appears that by ringing Weber I might have confused the issue!!

4. I would be interested in what thickness of aqua panel boarding is required.

5. We have about 175m sq in total to do

6. I would interested in what systems would be suitable for a domestic house that would go onto the boarding.. giving the Parex type finish...

thanks again everyone...
Click to expand...


Hi Ladeda
Get in touch with me on Monday, or drop me an E Mail with you plans, elevations and sectional details........
Knauf Aquapanel Exterior is 12.5mm thick, normally you would then have 4 - 6mm basecoat and mesh, then a top coat (2mm for a thin coat, 9-10mm for a scratch).
If you really want a scratch finish, as you have shown, you have to approved options - Parex or K Rend..... In willbe more than happy to point you in the right direction for information and contacts on both......
Now the forum knows the job is near Southend...... anyone interested in pricing it up?
 
lucius said:
Iwould have thought that there is to much movement in a new timber frame house to clad directly on and mono knowing how brittle mono and how much movement you get in timber frame, every rendered timber frame ive built its been rendered onto blockwork sounds a cheap way of doing things.
Click to expand...

Lucius
You are correct, there is a lot of shrinkage in a TF, so you have to consider this and put in movement joints (if and where requied). After the first 12 - 18 month the TF should have shrunk as much as it will and the movemeny joints will have closed and levelled out....
You cannot put a scratch coat directly onto a board, you need to install the boards correctly, then have a suitable basecoat and mesh applied first, to absorb the micro movements as the TF shrinks over time.
Blockwork and scratch outside a TF is still common, but it kind of defeats the point of having the TF and makes for a really thick finished wall that adds nothing to the building.... Also, if you are going to build with a block and scratch wall, you need to have the founations built, before you put up the TF......
If you want more info - get in touch or drop me a line as well.......
 
Hi Everyone...

As suggested there is no chance of a blockwork wall just to add render onto, it does defeat the object of building in timber frame cause I dont want bricklayers faffing around for 2 months on the scaffolding...

So far it looks like 12.5 mm Aquaboard (or similar) then a coat of something to sink the mesh into then a top coat of some kind thick enough to give the scratched effect I am after... in a through colour because I dont want to paint it ,..

Having registered for the Parex website... looks like the solution could be a Parexdirect Acrylic which shows a detail of backing board onto a timber frame house exactly the same as mine.

i am still wondering if plain old sand and cement onto rib lathe would be a lot less aggravation??
 
Drop me an E Mail - I will send you a brochure with more information and details for Knauf Aquapanel Exterior. I will even give you the contact details for the local Parex and K Rend guys.

Direct applied Rib Lath and then Sand and Cement will probably crack as the TF shrinks in the first 12 - 18 months...... if building control and your insurance company OK it though.... knock yourself out - it is your house!
 
Runswithscissors said:
Lucius
You are correct, there is a lot of shrinkage in a TF, so you have to consider this and put in movement joints (if and where requied). After the first 12 - 18 month the TF should have shrunk as much as it will and the movemeny joints will have closed and levelled out....
You cannot put a scratch coat directly onto a board, you need to install the boards correctly, then have a suitable basecoat and mesh applied first, to absorb the micro movements as the TF shrinks over time.
Blockwork and scratch outside a TF is still common, but it kind of defeats the point of having the TF and makes for a really thick finished wall that adds nothing to the building.... Also, if you are going to build with a block and scratch wall, you need to have the founations built, before you put up the TF......
If you want more info - get in touch or drop me a line as well.......
Click to expand...
The TF has to sit on a foundation and a wall does it not or is there a new system out i dont know about, a block wall will add to the Uvalue of the house i suppose and certainly wont take 2 months more like 2 weeks a couple of thousand blocks and you have a perfect background.When i worked in Germany houses were left a year before finished render was applied to allow for settlement if i was building a TF for myself using the aquapanel system i maybe would be looking at doing the same.
 
lucius said:
The TF has to sit on a foundation and a wall does it not or is there a new system out i dont know about, a block wall will add to the Uvalue of the house i suppose and certainly wont take 2 months more like 2 weeks a couple of thousand blocks and you have a perfect background.When i worked in Germany houses were left a year before finished render was applied to allow for settlement if i was building a TF for myself using the aquapanel system i maybe would be looking at doing the same.
Click to expand...


Hi, the TF sits directly onto a single skin 140mm block wall / beam and block floor.

Frankly the rendering is just a rain screen (but an expensive one) there are a number of ways to skin this cat.. blockwork / brickwork skin / battens and render or cladding... but the U value of the wall is not important in this case as its more than acheived by the timber wall with 120mm insulation and reflective membranes to inside and out.
 
What frame did you use ive just built a Maple one with their 14O wall system which whent well, what 140 blocks did you use as we had trouble sourcing them at short notice.
 
Ladeda

there are mono render over board systems out there, but........ it is still heavy and brittle the risk is still there trust me we fit this work all of the time, you want the board - thin coat with mesh base - with bucket coloured texture finish. we never have problems with this, it is the best way forward with TF.

Use the knauf aquapanel followed by the marmorit or the parex thin coat render system.

Give Gibbo of here a shout he may be interested in supplying labour - he knows the render and lives darn sarf that way somewhere

if you want me to send you a couple of PDF specs for this let me know jfe@live.co.uk
 
Hi everyone, want to say thanks for all the advice... Looks like I will go for a backing board with Mesh and a thin coat top coat as plasterjfe suggests above.

I have a few numbers for labour as well, so hopefully will get the best job...
 
ladeda said:
Hi everyone, want to say thanks for all the advice... Looks like I will go for a backing board with Mesh and a thin coat top coat as plasterjfe suggests above.

I have a few numbers for labour as well, so hopefully will get the best job...
Click to expand...

And failing that you could always ring me !! , tadaaaa
 
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