Plastering the ancient craft

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@flynnyman the block release for the advanced was great cos we got to spend 2 days per week in the workshop so we got to do loads of decorative stuff fibrous and s&c just wish i got to do that kind of work 2 days a week now. But next year fingers crossed i may be working on the re-furb of a derelict castle if they get lottery funding
 
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@flynnyman the block release for the advanced was great cos we got to spend 2 days per week in the workshop so we got to do loads of decorative stuff fibrous and s&c just wish i got to do that kind of work 2 days a week now. But next year fingers crossed i may be working on the re-furb of a derelict castle if they get lottery funding
Sounds like a fairy tale
 
One of my monkeys that was ...

John it was my brothers ex son in law and after attending his 3rd lesson my brother got him a little job to do and then rang me to ask what gear he would need! My brother did not speak to me for over a month due to my reply to his question it was f'n great :RpS_thumbup:
 
The plastering trade has been devalued over the past, with anybody getting a van , skinning a wall and calling them self a plasterer. Today I have just seen the new proposed trade tests for level 3 plastering, they will be very hard to achieve in the time allocated for the task. What the awarding body are trying to achieve is to bring the skills back into the trade, and any way of improving skill levels of the students, has to be seen as good for the trade.

level 3 already is hard to achieve, that is why very few achieve it as part of a 3 year apprenticeship. setting out barrel ceilings, plastering circular pillars from scratch ie forming a casting collar and floating out, forming gothic arches etc , most fail it. when I did mine in 1999 only 3 passed it out of 28.
 
What do you earn as a plastering instructor, would you earn more on the tools and lastly why do you teach,
Ok I'll talk prices then, it was in the eighties when i lectured part time about 85 or 86 i think and back then i was being payed £10.61 per hour but, i bet it is not that much more than that now. At the time lads who went to college with me were very envious
 
I applied for a few teaching jobs and if i remember the wages werent that clever and never really went up much but if your looking for a steady wage it would suit some but nowadays its not guaranteed especially with all the cuts by the council.
 
We have very high success rates, and I can honestly say that in my ten years of teaching level 3 no one has failed

most droped out after level2 then in level 3 struggled to reach the criteria ie site evidence of nvq3, this was at leeds build tech.
 
A few lads from the firm i was with never bothered coz it was a choice and they didnt need to, they just thought well i can plaster so that will do me, pretty much whats goin on now with lads who can skim a board and fix a bead but to be honest they were ruff and still are.
 
the level 3 consists of practical tasks in the workshop, theory lessons, plus an end exam, also NVQ L3 , as well as key skills at level 2, most students struggle with the key skills,
It is a full programme that is why it takes two years, if you are interested I have a website plastering Books - plastering books ,books on plastering for the trade, and DIY market where you can go to download 10 sample pages from one of my books Columns, Cornices and Curves which give you an incite to the content of the qualification
 
@plasteringbooks am I right in thinking that by struggle with KS2 you mean english and maths gcse grade C equivelant ? yet they are trying to attain a lvl 3 qual which is A lvl equivelant ? I know some of the local colleges up here give the young'uns first year to get these and if they do not they will not progress them.
 
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A few lads from the firm i was with never bothered coz it was a choice and they didnt need to, they just thought well i can plaster so that will do me, pretty much whats goin on now with lads who can skim a board and fix a bead but to be honest they were ruff and still are.
that's the problem , you either enjoy college or hate it, we cant win em all
 
I think plastering in college is a bit like learning to drive a car. You get the basics but only really learn to drive when you've passed and are out on the roads. Same with plastering. Does everyone have qulifications these days? Or are some not bothered and have been doing it long enough for it not to matter to their work? No-one ever asks me to see a qualification
 
I think plastering in college is a bit like learning to drive a car. You get the basics but only really learn to drive when you've passed and are out on the roads. Same with plastering. Does everyone have qulifications these days? Or are some not bothered and have been doing it long enough for it not to matter to their work? No-one ever asks me to see a qualification
true , the problem comes when you want to work on a site and need a cscs card, for a trade card you need at least a level 2 NVQ, and for a gold card you need an NVQ L3. We get a lot of very skillful experienced having to get a NVQ so they can gat their ccs card
 
I think plastering in college is a bit like learning to drive a car. You get the basics but only really learn to drive when you've passed and are out on the roads. Same with plastering. Does everyone have qulifications these days? Or are some not bothered and have been doing it long enough for it not to matter to their work? No-one ever asks me to see a qualification

The problem is the basics are getting more and more basic so there will be a lot you will never learn and if you ever come across something on a job that a qualified spread thinks is basic you will look a bit stupid. A lot these days wont have quals and the usual, them with no quals always say they never needed them or were never asked but to gain the quals in the right surroundings and from a good teacher you actually learn something its not all about a piece of paper. comparing it to driving a car is a bad example unless you say i learnt to drive but not park, reverse, indicate, check mirrors, emergency stop then you might be getting somewhere ;)
 
Maybe I am bias but the plastering trade is the most skillful of all the ancient l crafts. This is the only craft that you can’t just go to the tool shop buy some plastering tools and start plastering, unlike the other crafts, you have to develop a certain amount of skill before you can start to produce your first piece of work that you are proud off.

If a joiner has to fix a column for a customer , the first thing that he does is to source where he can purchase it, and with a few fixing he has completed the job
The plasterer to produce a column will involve using the skills he has had to develop over years of training, and involve working with metal, wood, and different kinds of plaster

Often referred to as the dirty trade, most plasterers are the most tidy crafts people on the building site and cleaning up as the job progresses, many times I have had to work on building sites surrounded by heaps of wood shaving, and thinking to myself if I left mounds of plaster everywhere I would have been sacked.

So I am very proud to be a plasterer, even though all of my work is produced in a college plastering workshop these days , I take a lot of satisfaction out of passing on my knowledge and skills to the younger trainees who are keen to learn and develop their own skills :RpS_biggrin:

I have a studied and got a cert ed and started a new job in a college in preston in january teaching plastering and on site assessing, I lasted 4 months and it was the most BORING 4 months of my working life, never again, i am back on the tools and it has given me a new appreciation for plastering and site work. I also feel that i have wasted 2 years and £3000k for the cert ed qual.
Good luck
 
Teaching is not for everyone, but if I recall Preston College dont actually have a plastering workshop, and only deliver OSAT, which can be very repetitive
 
Yeh i know and im on about the same ones, you know you aint gonna learn plastering from scratch in 5 days, these firms exist for a matter of days, weeks or months but i recon months is a record.

The trouble is these courses are churning people out on a weekly basis and even if only half of them last a few weeks before failing it's still a lot of jobs throughout the year that aren't available to the "proper" tradesmen.
It's the reason I decided to stop helping out at my local "plastering training provider", I didn't want to be part of the problem. Some weeks half the guys on the course had jobs (paying) booked in for the following week.:RpS_scared:

I honestly know of 3 peep's who have done 5 day courses and somehow are still making a living from plastering and one who attended 3 sessions of a night class meant for diy'ers and was supposed to be a 18 wk course and somehow managed and still is to best of my knowledge making a living from plastering

Same here raggles, two week courses and then power on. Speak to them and they haven't a fecking clue about the trade but they still somehow get away with it.

Skill test these days are called synoptical assignments , and consist of running an in-situ cornice on a curved wall surface

Remember doing some of these with my old man for the first time thirty years ago, the reason I remember it so well is that the contractor had spent six months looking for someone who could put standard Gyproc cove around a penthouse with curves everywhere. My old man was treated like a God for getting it done allowing the flat to be finished at long last.
 
Right it is time to get out of the coffin(made by a carpenter)used to be carpenter and joiner.When I signed up to be an apprentice plasterer some 55 years ago there was a thing called an apprenticeship. This entailed a company indenturing you, employing you, training you and packing you off to building college for a day and two nights a week. We were taught lime work including running in situ,external rendering, internal plastering,granite work,screeding,fibrous modeling,mould making,casting and fixing,ceiling fixing,tacking and dry lining.If you managed to last the course you had intermediate city and guilds in your second year,Advanced craft in four years and if you passed these you could move on to ONC building.I remember the first three months of my apprentichip were a trial which I spent perfecting the art of the perfect cupboard where I would put the plaster on, stand back and admire it. then the foreman would arrive wit his lath hammer straight edge and a sheet of paper. If he could pass the paper between the rule and the wall the lath hammer came into action and I started again.By the way the wages were £1 and £1.50 fares. I passed all my exams at the highest level and was recruited by Bovis M&S division (the elite of building companies). They treated workers like people (drying rooms , toilets and a canteen with cooked food) to train as a site manager.I had toleave on the death of my father a plasterer aged 46 to provide for my brothers and sisters so I turned back to the tools.Times were hard on a good week a plasterer would earn maybe £30 a week(the building trade were treated like the scum of the earth) In the late sixties a number of us were working in the film industry and outside on sites when there were no films(the film industry paid big bucks £200 a week cash). This caused a big problem with PAYE as we had to be on the cards outside. So began the self employed plasterer with a little grey book issued by the tax authority.(the beginning of the lump) After watching the boss sliding about in his roller It was time to start my own company so here we go back to the trade. As the years progressed we were given a governing body the CITB who since its formation has managed to tax the apprenticeship out of existence and alter and dilute all the qualifications so nobody can fail. in the early nineties wages were at a staggering rate (£1000 per week) we suddenly had a massive shortage of labour so we invited in the foreigners as you put it. Some were really skilled, I know because I was asked by the CITB to transpose their own qualifications to approved English ones. The we were invaded I remember having to approve nearly 300 European workers on block in Norwich, many who could not speak a word of English. I saw a health and safety risk, complained and was dropped by the CITB.( I have to say in the defense of the Europeans that they were hard workers who worked a full day where many of our own would leave the site at 2pm ).Right now to the point. In my view their is not much left of any trade due to the dilution of qualification. If you want to be a tradesman you need to learn the whole trade not just one part. If you want to earn top money by all means do but give a full days work for a fair days wage.
As for plasteringbooks come on 50p they paid me £45 an hour to take night school.
right back to the coffin
 
Plastering a gift of the gods, not really , so many levels of skills, even the dumbest can get by grunting and pushing at it, I know people thirty years at it and rough as a bears backside still.but its nice to see someone believes we are special.but meanwhile back at the ranch lots of us work like fools to get a wage.

Last night we had our final meeting before being told we'd won the contract to tack and plaster a really nice passive house. In the clients opinion we, as the plasterers, are as important as the architect to achieving the home he wants. If only there were more people like this, and yes he is willing to pay for it before you ask.
 
The plastering trade has been devalued over the past, with anybody getting a van , skinning a wall and calling them self a plasterer. Today I have just seen the new proposed trade tests for level 3 plastering, they will be very hard to achieve in the time allocated for the task. What the awarding body are trying to achieve is to bring the skills back into the trade, and any way of improving skill levels of the students, has to be seen as good for the trade.

Its about time! Every man and his dog can get a level 2 in 4 weeks, 6 weeks, or 6 months!?!? I've heard all..
 
Right it is time to get out of the coffin(made by a carpenter)used to be carpenter and joiner.When I signed up to be an apprentice plasterer some 55 years ago there was a thing called an apprenticeship. This entailed a company indenturing you, employing you, training you and packing you off to building college for a day and two nights a week. We were taught lime work including running in situ,external rendering, internal plastering,granite work,screeding,fibrous modeling,mould making,casting and fixing,ceiling fixing,tacking and dry lining.If you managed to last the course you had intermediate city and guilds in your second year,Advanced craft in four years and if you passed these you could move on to ONC building.I remember the first three months of my apprentichip were a trial which I spent perfecting the art of the perfect cupboard where I would put the plaster on, stand back and admire it. then the foreman would arrive wit his lath hammer straight edge and a sheet of paper. If he could pass the paper between the rule and the wall the lath hammer came into action and I started again.By the way the wages were £1 and £1.50 fares. I passed all my exams at the highest level and was recruited by Bovis M&S division (the elite of building companies). They treated workers like people (drying rooms , toilets and a canteen with cooked food) to train as a site manager.I had toleave on the death of my father a plasterer aged 46 to provide for my brothers and sisters so I turned back to the tools.Times were hard on a good week a plasterer would earn maybe £30 a week(the building trade were treated like the scum of the earth) In the late sixties a number of us were working in the film industry and outside on sites when there were no films(the film industry paid big bucks £200 a week cash). This caused a big problem with PAYE as we had to be on the cards outside. So began the self employed plasterer with a little grey book issued by the tax authority.(the beginning of the lump) After watching the boss sliding about in his roller It was time to start my own company so here we go back to the trade. As the years progressed we were given a governing body the CITB who since its formation has managed to tax the apprenticeship out of existence and alter and dilute all the qualifications so nobody can fail. in the early nineties wages were at a staggering rate (£1000 per week) we suddenly had a massive shortage of labour so we invited in the foreigners as you put it. Some were really skilled, I know because I was asked by the CITB to transpose their own qualifications to approved English ones. The we were invaded I remember having to approve nearly 300 European workers on block in Norwich, many who could not speak a word of English. I saw a health and safety risk, complained and was dropped by the CITB.( I have to say in the defense of the Europeans that they were hard workers who worked a full day where many of our own would leave the site at 2pm ).Right now to the point. In my view their is not much left of any trade due to the dilution of qualification. If you want to be a tradesman you need to learn the whole trade not just one part. If you want to earn top money by all means do but give a full days work for a fair days wage.
As for plasteringbooks come on 50p they paid me £45 an hour to take night school.
right back to the coffin

Great post mate:RpS_thumbup:
 
Right it is time to get out of the coffin(made by a carpenter)used to be carpenter and joiner.When I signed up to be an apprentice plasterer some 55 years ago there was a thing called an apprenticeship. This entailed a company indenturing you, employing you, training you and packing you off to building college for a day and two nights a week. We were taught lime work including running in situ,external rendering, internal plastering,granite work,screeding,fibrous modeling,mould making,casting and fixing,ceiling fixing,tacking and dry lining.If you managed to last the course you had intermediate city and guilds in your second year,Advanced craft in four years and if you passed these you could move on to ONC building.I remember the first three months of my apprentichip were a trial which I spent perfecting the art of the perfect cupboard where I would put the plaster on, stand back and admire it. then the foreman would arrive wit his lath hammer straight edge and a sheet of paper. If he could pass the paper between the rule and the wall the lath hammer came into action and I started again.By the way the wages were £1 and £1.50 fares. I passed all my exams at the highest level and was recruited by Bovis M&S division (the elite of building companies). They treated workers like people (drying rooms , toilets and a canteen with cooked food) to train as a site manager.I had toleave on the death of my father a plasterer aged 46 to provide for my brothers and sisters so I turned back to the tools.Times were hard on a good week a plasterer would earn maybe £30 a week(the building trade were treated like the scum of the earth) In the late sixties a number of us were working in the film industry and outside on sites when there were no films(the film industry paid big bucks £200 a week cash). This caused a big problem with PAYE as we had to be on the cards outside. So began the self employed plasterer with a little grey book issued by the tax authority.(the beginning of the lump) After watching the boss sliding about in his roller It was time to start my own company so here we go back to the trade. As the years progressed we were given a governing body the CITB who since its formation has managed to tax the apprenticeship out of existence and alter and dilute all the qualifications so nobody can fail. in the early nineties wages were at a staggering rate (£1000 per week) we suddenly had a massive shortage of labour so we invited in the foreigners as you put it. Some were really skilled, I know because I was asked by the CITB to transpose their own qualifications to approved English ones. The we were invaded I remember having to approve nearly 300 European workers on block in Norwich, many who could not speak a word of English. I saw a health and safety risk, complained and was dropped by the CITB.( I have to say in the defense of the Europeans that they were hard workers who worked a full day where many of our own would leave the site at 2pm ).Right now to the point. In my view their is not much left of any trade due to the dilution of qualification. If you want to be a tradesman you need to learn the whole trade not just one part. If you want to earn top money by all means do but give a full days work for a fair days wage.
As for plasteringbooks come on 50p they paid me £45 an hour to take night school.
right back to the coffin

Kinell!

im guessing you are retiring in the Canary Islands?
 
Spot on Spanky sitting in the sun enjoying what is left of life. have left my son to carry on with our internet shop for plasterers tomps.com
 
Right it is time to get out of the coffin(made by a carpenter)used to be carpenter and joiner.When I signed up to be an apprentice plasterer some 55 years ago there was a thing called an apprenticeship. This entailed a company indenturing you, employing you, training you and packing you off to building college for a day and two nights a week. We were taught lime work including running in situ,external rendering, internal plastering,granite work,screeding,fibrous modeling,mould making,casting and fixing,ceiling fixing,tacking and dry lining.If you managed to last the course you had intermediate city and guilds in your second year,Advanced craft in four years and if you passed these you could move on to ONC building.I remember the first three months of my apprentichip were a trial which I spent perfecting the art of the perfect cupboard where I would put the plaster on, stand back and admire it. then the foreman would arrive wit his lath hammer straight edge and a sheet of paper. If he could pass the paper between the rule and the wall the lath hammer came into action and I started again.By the way the wages were £1 and £1.50 fares. I passed all my exams at the highest level and was recruited by Bovis M&S division (the elite of building companies). They treated workers like people (drying rooms , toilets and a canteen with cooked food) to train as a site manager.I had toleave on the death of my father a plasterer aged 46 to provide for my brothers and sisters so I turned back to the tools.Times were hard on a good week a plasterer would earn maybe £30 a week(the building trade were treated like the scum of the earth) In the late sixties a number of us were working in the film industry and outside on sites when there were no films(the film industry paid big bucks £200 a week cash). This caused a big problem with PAYE as we had to be on the cards outside. So began the self employed plasterer with a little grey book issued by the tax authority.(the beginning of the lump) After watching the boss sliding about in his roller It was time to start my own company so here we go back to the trade. As the years progressed we were given a governing body the CITB who since its formation has managed to tax the apprenticeship out of existence and alter and dilute all the qualifications so nobody can fail. in the early nineties wages were at a staggering rate (£1000 per week) we suddenly had a massive shortage of labour so we invited in the foreigners as you put it. Some were really skilled, I know because I was asked by the CITB to transpose their own qualifications to approved English ones. The we were invaded I remember having to approve nearly 300 European workers on block in Norwich, many who could not speak a word of English. I saw a health and safety risk, complained and was dropped by the CITB.( I have to say in the defense of the Europeans that they were hard workers who worked a full day where many of our own would leave the site at 2pm ).Right now to the point. In my view their is not much left of any trade due to the dilution of qualification. If you want to be a tradesman you need to learn the whole trade not just one part. If you want to earn top money by all means do but give a full days work for a fair days wage.
As for plasteringbooks come on 50p they paid me £45 an hour to take night school.
right back to the coffin

I like what you are saying.The 50p an hour was purely a joke, it just sometimes seem like that, and that is the answer I always give to my students when they ask how mush are you earning.
 
Spot on Spanky sitting in the sun enjoying what is left of life. have left my son to carry on with our internet shop for plasterers tomps.com
Hi tomps nice posts, ive been on your site, which stuff is used to make the mouldings for external printing mats? cheers OH it might be worth asking dan the owner about advertising your site.
 
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