plastering - some guidance please

[ksjs]

hello,

this is maybe a bit heavy for a first post on here but i could do with some help.

ive been plastering since 2004, by no means full-time (this was never the plan but between the plastering i do and another job, i have enough money) for example i might do 2 weeks plastering and then not plaster again for a while. i started by doing a week long plastering course which i realise is enough for the basics only. my plan was simply to use this to do some work on my own house. from this however i moved on to doing domestic work. ive since done site work and with one exception ive always worked alone.

my finish is to a high standard but i still have this nagging feeling (largely because i did a short course and ive worked on my own generally) that im not doing things quite right or as quickly as i could or should. i sometimes hear stories of people plastering really fast and think something like "that would take me twice as long" or "i could never do it for the same money".

anyway, ive just finished a decent sized bit of work and again im wondering how long someone else would have taken over it. so, once and for all, id like to get to the bottom of whether im missing some tricks or i just work at a slower than average pace. as far as i can see the only way to do this is hiring myself out for cheap or free to another plasterer. anything like an apprenticeship is out of the question as i really only need a day or two to ask some questions and get a feel for the pace of work (for what its worth im faster or at the least do more work than many of the site plasterers ive seen). id be willing however to do a job with someone or a team of plasterers as long as i got the kind of learning out of it that im after.

if there are any benchmarks or standards that people know of in terms of finish / time taken / how much you can put on or whatever id be interested in knowing those to see if i measure up.

i guess i just need some confirmation that im going about things in the right way. i suppose books / videos might help but im not sure that theres anything that really covers what im looking for. im based in north Wales by the way but do work in Liverpool / surrounding area.

if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions id be grateful for any comments. thanks

 

[beddy]

how long would it take you to over skim a double bedroom, say 3.6x3.6? ceiling 4 walls with 1 window, pva and skim, forget about sheeting up etc.

 

[pwi]

Welcome to the forum I would say you are being hard on your self experiance and speed come with time and its not somthing that will happen overnight ,but aslong as your finish is to a high standard you'll be fine

 

[Thomas]

If you can do the walls of a normal sized room in a day, finishing late afternoon/early tea time, you have nothing to worry about at all. (domestic)
You might have been plastering for 5 years, but unless your doing it a lot, you wont get your speed up to match guys doing it every day.

 

[irish_spread]

u sound a lot better than i was after doing a weeks plastering

 

[carlos]

As said before speed comes with experience just concentrate on doing a top notch job and you will be fine.

You wont be as quick as some other guys as your not doing it day in day out.

Give us an example of a job you did and how long it took.

 

[Johnathon]

Hello Mate
As the other guys have said you shouldnt worry about speed, speed is really only an issue on site in my opinion, domestic is all I do, I work on my own and it takes time, you cant arrive early so your looking at 8 or 8 30 you then have to sheet up; unload your van and set up; prep all the walls etc; 1st coat PVA let it dry then 2nd coat and all this before you have even mixed any plaster, then when you have finished plastering you need to clean up and leave the place immaculate

 

[ksjs]

thanks all - really appreciate the replies. answers below, any feedback on calcs and times would be very useful.

to steve_cov_spread

just under 3 days at 8 hours per day (2 hrs to pva and bead, ceiling = 6 hrs i.e. i would do the ceiling in 2 halves, 3.5 hrs to skim each of the walls and i would do window reveal as i did the walls). all done with 2 coats.

in real life there'd be breaks and set up / clean down but id work longer days as it wouldnt be worth going into a fourth day.

to Thomas:

right, this is exactly what im talking about. i could manage this if i worked like a demon, didnt take lunch, started at 8 and worked until very late say 22:00 and did a rushed job. in my eyes this is impossible and certainly not sustainable over a long period.

lets say i arrive at 8 and theres no faff or interruptions:

- 30 min to get set up (no doubt therell be clients stuff to move also)
- 2 hrs prep (if required scrape all walls and ceiling to remove any stuff that shouldnt be there, pva and bead)
- skim (2 coats per surface at 3.5 hrs each [5 x 3.5] = 17.5 hours straight away)
- then theres clean down and taking gear out so another hour

TOTAL = 21 hours, id finish at 05:00 the next day!

this assumes all work is straightforward i.e. no curved surfaces, pipe work, awkward to reach bits or excessive number of sockets. in short not real life!

lets say you mean a smaller room and i can do opposite walls at same time. lets say also that im working freakishly fast. the above figures then become:

- 15 min to get set up
- 1 hrs prep
- skim ceiling = 3.5 hours
- skim walls (doing 2 walls simultaneously = 3.5 hrs [multiply by 2 as theres 4 walls = 7 hours] )
- 30 mins to clean down and take gear out

TOTAL = 12.25 hours, here id be leaving at 20:15, not quite the late afternoon finish you reckon!

if i want to achieve a good finish and it takes approx 2 hours for an average sized wall to be finished properly / polished i cant see how its possible to work as you suggest?

a large skim (1 coat) typically takes me 2-2.5 hours to put on and finish. i can put on and finish a bag and a half of finish plaster if theres no intricate work and im working on a wall rather than ceiling.

to irish_spread

its been a bit more than a week: since 2004, so i should be at a decent standard!

to Johnathon:

do the figures i mention above sound ridiculously slow or realistic to you?

 

[beddy]

that room i mentioned would take most of us on here a day, day and a half absolute max. the thing is, it takes 2 hours for a wall to set, if you put 2 walls on the same time it still takes 2 hours. so aslong as u kill the suction you should have enough time to get 2 decent sized walls on as a beginner/intermediate plastererer, that will come with practice. if i was doing that room i'd do the ceiling, 1 wall, and the reveals all in one set, then the other 3 walls in a second set. couple of hours to pva, bead and clean up and any messing about. you could 1st coat pva a room of that size in half an hour aswell, and thats not really going fast. second coat PVA the walls you want to do, mix up and by that time the pva should be tacky. get the first coat of skim on, leave it for a while till it starts to pick up (10minutes roughly, depending on weather, how thick you lay it on, temperature in the room etc) some flatten it before laying it in, i personally don't, lay it in with a tighter coat, filling any hollows as you see them. leave it till it starts to pick up, trowel it up using no water, leave it again till you can put your finger on it and just about see where its been. trowel again using a little water, leave till you can't see your finger print but its still not set, trowel again with little water. then polish it with a dry trowel ACROSS the wall. brush any angles in with a small wet paint brush.

hope this has helped in some way.

 

[ksjs]

cheers Steve, very interesting... i think part of my problem is that my finish is better than it needs to be i.e. im there with site light etc. i know that when the skim dries out much of what looks like marking when its wet wont be visible when dry.

what do your corners look like if youve got wet corners meeting?
what do you mean when you say 'pick up' ?
when you say 'laying in' i assume you mean putting 2nd coat on?

i guess the only thing to do is to try what you say and see how it goes. ive recently moved and have the whole house to plaster so no major stress if i cant manage that lot in one set.

thanks again for advice.

 

[RainbowThistlePlastering]

hi ksjs,

think steve means when it starts to stiffen up?? Never heard the phrase before though heh

Laying in refers to second coat. Personally I don't f**k around, I whack it on, flatten it out and get another coat on right away but I generally use the same bucket rather than 2 mixes unless it's a huge area. I've got a plastering tutorial in the newbie section.

And I never work into wet corners. Opposite walls everytime.

 

[beddy]

i dont tend to wait too long between coats but thats how newbies are taught so thats why i wrote it, what do you mean what do my corner look like? alot of people dont do wet corners. many because they can't (thats not a dig rainbowthistle). i was taught to do them so if i need to bang a room on i can. i dont find it easier or harder to do wet corners or opposite walls. its good practice do to wet corners because if you go on a job and only have 2 small ajoining walls to do, your not going to do them in two sets are you. remember aswell, your plaster can be TOO smooth. it should feel like an egg shell, any smoother and you may have trouble when it comes to painting it. which is great when you don't like the painter then all you do is polish it 2 or 3 times. ;D

 

[RainbowThistlePlastering]

whats your technique for that then steve? I was always told and shown that rubbing a wet corner digs in and creates problems. Best just to do opposite walls and do it right. That's how I was taught but I'm all for learning new techniques.

 

[beddy]

put both walls on as you would normally, then just before your first trowel, instead of using a corner trowel, i run the top corner of my trowel right into the corner on both walls, i only use the corner trowel when i've got loads of wet corners in one mix, then when your troweling just pull the wall in from the angles, brush them in with the small brush as you go along, takes a bit of practice to get it nice but once you know how to do it you don't even think about it anymore.

 

[ksjs]

hi ksjs,
I've got a plastering tutorial in the newbie section.

theres some good posts on there. i read the guide and its pretty much what i do but i thought 'fat' was your friend, not your enemy? when trowelling out i keep some fat on the trowel to fill where needed. i get the impression that maybe i sometimes work the plaster too much and am maybe a bit more wary of the skim going off than i should be.

 

[RainbowThistlePlastering]

fat leaves marks and is full of s**t. it's just crap you're taking of the wall and watering down. if you're filling as you go just use the stuff you have in the bucket, it's all going to go off at the same time anyway. That's how I do it anyway.

Most people, newbies that is, get scared of the wall turning before they work it in. Don't be afraid. Stick it on, flatten it out, lay it in and take your time. You get a good hour to work with it at least from mix to setting and if you f**k it up just skim it again. ;D

 

[carlos]

I remember my old man telling me dont keep messing with the walls its not gone off enough you will f**k it all up.

 

[spredz]

how long would it take you to over skim a double bedroom, say 3.6x3.6? ceiling 4 walls with 1 window, pva and skim, forget about sheeting up etc.

KSJS a room like this took me 4 days when i first started. 4 days! (first job i did by myself before working for a price work gang) I could sweat it out in 4 hours now with a labourer. But it's still all relative the blokes that taught me will always be that bit better and faster to me.

Not that i'm keen on busting my balls unnecesarilly but sometimes you have to and you have to be able to deal with every scenario - wet angles, opposite angles, unexpected making good before a room needs doing, trowelling up on time, late, early.

You might not be the fastest or cheapest at the moment BUT if your punters perceive VALUE in your work then it's all good in the hood

 

[kebab king]

Try getting into the habbit of using that corner trowel, when you get the knack it speeds the amount of hits you can do no end.I personally prefer to wet angles together .

 

[nelly]

Try getting into the habbit of using that corner trowel, when you get the knack it speeds the amount of hits you can do no end.I personally prefer to wet angles together .

I was taught dry angles and did so for 20 years.

But now I use a corner trowel, I dont like the way they dig into the wall, but it does let you get on a ceilling and 2 walls in one hit, or one wall depending on size and agro factor.

 

[ksjs]

how long would it take you to over skim a double bedroom, say 3.6x3.6? ceiling 4 walls with 1 window, pva and skim, forget about sheeting up etc.

Not that i'm keen on busting my balls unnecesarilly but sometimes you have to and you have to be able to deal with every scenario - wet angles, opposite angles, unexpected making good before a room needs doing, trowelling up on time, late, early.

i think maybe youve hit the nail on the head: the pace at which some of you blokes work would kill me / knacker my elbow / shoulders so i couldnt do that 24/7 but i guess i still want to know that if it came down to it i could bang something out at semi-decent pace. i suppose i want some confirmation that im not a total DIYer, i dont think i am but i can probably work a bit more smart

 

[beddy]

truth is mate, even with all you've told us you could be completely sh1t. we cant tell you without seeing your work. as long as your getting work. getting paid. and not getting any s**t off the customers, thats all thast matters. you must be doing something right.

 

[Thomas]

if i want to achieve a good finish and it takes approx 2 hours for an average sized wall to be finished properly / polished i cant see how its possible to work as you suggest?

Try hitting two walls at the same time.
Two hits a day mate, thats all you need to do.
If you are doing one wall at a time, them of course its going to take an age to do the job! Thats not so much a 'speed' thing, but more a 'common sense' thing.

 

[ksjs]

truth is mate, even with all you've told us you could be completely sh1t.

dont think my works that bad! the finish spot on if a bit slow, im just keen to do a good job but sounds like i need to go about it in a different way. customers always (well, usually) impressed at finish, they pay (and tip) and sometimes even ask me back to do more work, ive had a site foreman say best plastering he'd seen (though i was working alongside some people who couldnt care less).

am i right in thinking i heard / read 20 m2 per day as being acceptable / average for a decent spread or am way off the mark in this? what are the targets on site for plasterers?

 

[ksjs]

Two hits a day mate, thats all you need to do.
...more a 'common sense' thing.

its gonna happen!
yes, common sense, sometimes i could use a bit more of that...

 

[PhilPlaster]

At the end of the day mate the only thing that counts is the end product. If it takes you twice as long as anyone else the only concern with the customer is the end finish as thats what they'll be lookin at for yrs.
If you do a good job then your time scale will soon be forgotten about. QUALITY NOT QUANTITY. Speed will just come with more time and experience.

 

[essexandy]

truth is mate, even with all you've told us you could be completely sh1t.

dont think my works that bad! the finish spot on if a bit slow, im just keen to do a good job but sounds like i need to go about it in a different way. customers always (well, usually) impressed at finish, they pay (and tip) and sometimes even ask me back to do more work, ive had a site foreman say best plastering he'd seen (though i was working alongside some people who couldnt care less).

am i right in thinking i heard / read 20 m2 per day as being acceptable / average for a decent spread or am way off the mark in this? what are the targets on site for plasterers?

If you're a decent site spread you should be looking at doing 70m2 plus of skimming a day to a high standard.

 

[beddy]

20m2 isnt alot if its straight forwardish. but on domestic 20m2 can also be the most annoying little bits you'll ever find!

 

[FreeD]

Providing its straight forward....i'd be looking at day and a half for that job without killing myself...I know guys who will do it in a day though...by doing the ceiling and 2 walls then the last 2 at the end of the day using a corner trowell etc...having a labourer drastically speeds you up, as does doing it day in day out...you begin to push yourself further and further and find new methods of speeding up e.g corner trowells...I did a 6 week course initially...one thing i've learnt that has speeded me up alot is not to mess around with the skim...Literally i'll trowell it 3 times after second coat, very little water, job done.

 

[ksjs]

cheers all for posts and advice - i need to man up. like i say have my whole house to do so plenty of opportunity and incentive to speed things up. some of its going to be done in lime so it'll be different at least. thanks again

 

[islandview]

"i need to man up"

Is that some kind of homosexual euphemism?

You should probably stick to writing on one forum at a time otherwise you mix posts up and come out with things like " i need to man up " !!!!!