need help lads

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To be honest i will never need it.
Or trust it.
il just put the gear on thicker than usual and bring back to life with a little extrra H2o and that would be on a 52m2 set on my own not a 22m2
or id reciprical lay it or get help from another spread ;) or not take a job on i cant manage.
 
At least we got to the bottm of it maybe???? anyhow.

Wish some one from off the forum whom we could trust to do the experiment to test vigously for the next few months.

Like maybe Hamhead ??? Essexboy ??? Flynny ( no fck that ) erm ?????
 
i might be starting on a big site early next year, 100 odd flats, the builder hasnt got a clue about the industry and just lets everyone get on with it on day rate, 2 small sets a day. if i get on that ill try it
 
mate you could just do an initial experiment on ur kitchen work top in a paper coffee cup.2 coffe cups equal ratios but one with 50% vinegar instead of watrer leave for 1 hr and see how it goes just keep checking and see if it slows setting time .
Ifso crack on with a ceiling /under stairs cubby hole.
 
i wont be trying it steve,i still dont think it will work.And if i ever saw anyomne i employed tipping Tartar fcking sauce in the mix theyd be stacking the fcker in Tesco's.
 
thing is rockhard know what hes on about by the looks of his previous posts, andy and grand have said the same so there must be something in it
 
I know what ur saying pal , i understood wehat grand was on about and rock hard i new all about reataders how they work and i know they used in plaster im noit a beginer,but it was the whole tartar sauce thing.
I admit i thoguht it was complete pie in the sky bolloxs but now admit im unsure?????

I still wont be using it as there is no need.Bg would create a 3hr set plaster if they neede to.
 
Exuse spelling im pretty steaming tonight.

Actually.. Id do the experiment now i got all the the materials in van on front ,but i started on christmas fizzy pop a little early todays.
As a result missus wouldnt trust me to cook kids scampi and chips so image if i drag 25 kilo bag of board finnish in the kitchen and get her china cups outand some pickling vinegar and star the experiment ill be on the sofa tonight AGAIN !!!
 
cream of tartar has a very similar chemical composition, theyre all citrates...
you could bung a glass of lemonade in and it would have the same effect...
the difference being youve no way of knowing just how much until youve tried it...
youd be better off adding a little bit more of the same retarder bg use to slow a set down than throwing loads of water at it and turning it all to fat i reckon?

which brings me to another, possibly off topic question...

what is the difference between one coat plaster and finish plaster, and why should you not be throwing water at finish when the only realistic way to get a finish with one coat is to sponge the life out of it and trowel up the fat?

there must be a difference? even though theyre both basically gypsum? or are they? why is multi finish fat weak and dusty whereas one coat fat dries loverly albeit a bit softer?
 
It's A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma old chap. what I wanna know is why isn't your avatar rubbing her thrupenny bits any more?
 
here we go a fcking gain.

I wild guess but i think its to do with particle size of plaster ? or grain shape?

Personally i like to get big areas on and use plenty of water espec in winter when the light it poor ands u gotta earn ur money.
i hate one coat saying that it has its uses and others love it.
 
Pug said:
It's A Riddle Wrapped in a Mystery Inside an Enigma old chap. what I wanna know is why isn't your avatar rubbing her thrupenny bits any more?
Click to expand...
dunno, something to do with the forum?
im gutted.. :RpS_unsure:
 
skimmin2day said:
here we go a fcking gain.

I wild guess but i think its to do with particle size of plaster ? or grain shape?

Personally i like to get big areas on and use plenty of water espec in winter when the light it poor ands u gotta earn ur money.
i hate one coat saying that it has its uses and others love it.
Click to expand...

so did i cos i'd only ever used it for patching deep holes but then recently i had no choice but to use it for a skim coat and i hated it even more until i figured out how to use it properly...

and its at that point i started to wonder why the f'ck we all fanny about with 2 coats of multi/boardy or just bang one coat on and work harder to get a finish in a quicker time...

seriously, using one coat as skim using a sponge is half the effort for a bloody good finish... even the noobs could do it... im seriously thinking of giving the old wickes one coat a shot using the same technique and if i get the same reaction from domestic punters over here as i did in france i reckon im onto a winner....
 
well, if I was a big company like BG with big brands like multi, I dunno if I would market a retarder. The prospect of plasterers and more likely Diyers adding retardent to your product could be a complete nightmare. There's too many things affecting the way plaster goes off anyway. Adding something else to the mix would really complicate matters.

Anyway, just putting me corporate, brand, whore hat on :RpS_unsure:
 
beddy said:
how do you know what bg use for retarder chris?
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the bloke who got the sodium got the info from the plaster manufacturer and told him its what they use, apparently its the same stuff whatever plaster youre using, one coat, multi, whatever... does seem to make sense seeing as they use it in all sorts of food products too..

for my part id heard of it along with cream of tartar and board addy but never used it till i was given it...
they use it in a product they call 'special finition' in france, its a 48minute set so a bit quick...

only f'ckin problem was, the 'special finition' we had was over 12 months out of date and near enough went off in the bucket... when i pretty much lost a ceiling even with the retarder i drew the line and we got some of that lutece which once id sussed the correct method went on bloody great....

the bloke had this tub from the last lot of plastering he had done out there on another property but the plasterers turned out to be w#nkers, hence why i was out there this time...
 
twitcher said:
well, if I was a big company like BG with big brands like multi, I dunno if I would market a retarder. The prospect of plasterers and more likely Diyers adding retardent to your product could be a complete nightmare. There's too many things affecting the way plaster goes off anyway. Adding something else to the mix would really complicate matters.

Anyway, just putting me corporate, brand, whore hat on :RpS_unsure:
Click to expand...

thats it, unless they start manufacturing plaster with differing setting times like the lutece they may as well give you a bag of pure gypsum and a pot of retarder and let you f'ck it right up off your own back...

im actually surprised lucius hasnt popped in with some comments cos the stuff he uses out in spain etc cant be too slow from the way they talk about it...
 
jesus christ it aint effing rocket science stick ABOUT a tablespoon full in yer water and stir and add powder and mix it will give you abou 20 mins more very helpfull when you dont have a labourer
 
didnt say it was, although i think a tablespoon is a lot unless your throwing 2 bags in one big bucket? i just like to know why it does what it does...
i think the ratio or amount you put in is pretty critical cos i reckon its not a straight line, once you get above about 3 or 4 teaspoons it seems to kill the set almost completely to the point where youre wondering if its ever gonna go off...

anyway, tri sodium aside rock, what do you reckon is the best substitute for it out of say lemonade, cream of tartar, vinegar or board addy?
i might actually try a cupful of lemonade just to see how long.... normal on one side, lemonade on the other, just a bag of each, one shot it...
 
cream of tartar works perfect and i mean perfect and sometimes ive effed up and droped too much in and it sets no prob as i say i use it mainly cos i dont use a labourer and it gived me that little exra time to do there job all i can say works for me i would nt stop using it as i say i only put it in my first coat as i need to clean buckets and when used i have to mix and clean again so it stops me running like a loony
 
Chriss i wont go into the different types of Spanish plasters but the one i use most is machine plaster which is one coat with a longer setting time so it dosent mess the machine up the only thing to be carefull with is dont knock it up to much as i dosent like a lot of air and will tear if you do.
 
Ok ....Sorry Rock and Grand for not beleiving you i honestly thought it was a wind up,i know ur both capable spreads probably with more experience than myself so firstly i dont want you thinking im a know all fck all guy cusing trouble.I can honestly say in 23 years of plastering i never heard of such a product used in Gysum plaster and neither has my dad who taught me the game
ANy hows
Im coming round to the fact there is something here with the Tartar vinegar retarder thing.

My question to Rock is ther any known probs with the tartar or vinegar ?
Will it say blister or slide ? does it ever flash set or not set ?
Is the workability the same also?
And the most important question for me is as multi already has retarder in it do you add the tartar to Finish plaster or Multi plaster to get the delay required or doesnt it matter?
 
Well done skimmin! youve accepeted that it, indeed works. It sometimes isnt easy to admit when we are wrong. Learnt a long time ago, is at least listen to these tips and different methods of doing something before jumping all over it. Simple answer to this one mate ,is try it!! Ive got a sneaky feeling you will try it. Best wishes.
 
skim mate ive never tried it but it does work so does alot of other things like urine and im not taking the pzzz
 
Funny u should mention urine cus a few years back we were doing a bungalow new build. no water out in in middle of nowhere we had to bring water to job anyway last mix last day late at night we got verylittle water left over.....so dirty water in bucket wash water the fckin lot,still need more for the final 1.5 bag topping mix so in went flasks with coffe and tea still not enough so 1 litre orange Fanta still short, there were 4 of us and we needed a bit more so we we used the plasterers piss bucket that hadnt been emptied for 2 days adn we all had i piss just about got enough liquid in there and lays the fcker out. But......
Absolutely no word of a lie im sure i mentiond it on forum b4,anyhow we were waiting for 4-5 hrs for it to pull in to trowel up.
 
Thank god we s h at in emty bags of finnish and not in pi s s bucket cus i dont think customer wanted tyrolene effet on dining room walls.
 
ive tried cream of tarter,board addy and mecafina which is a filler used to tart up machine plaster to slow down plaster of paris and they all work.
 
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