Lath and plaster ceiling fix options?

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imago said:
Yeah? It's not a dynamic or point load so ntohing dramatic like the ceiling collapsing is very likely.

However an additional 250 kg + dead load will cause the ceiling to sag. It's the same weight increase as putting a motorbike in the loft, or 10 25 litre tubs full of water.
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Not if u take that motobike apart and spread it out across the loft it's not
 
superspread said:
Not if u take that motobike apart and spread it out across the loft it's not
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Across the area of the ceiling it is as that's a dead load. It's still a 250kg load no matter how it's placed, and that's the point. Everyone seems to be assuming that the only loading problem is if it's a point or dynamic load, which would be more likely to end ina collapse.

Park it on it's wheels in one place and it's a point load. Ride it around or bounce it up and down and it's a dynamic load.
 
Fatarm said:
Fuckingg multi trade builders causing trouble on the forum again:whistle:..........
:rebotando:.
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I'm genuinely not trying to cause trouble, or telling anyone how to do their job. I'm just trying to add some information so that everyone can make an informed choice.

You can only make an informed choice between one method and another if you have all the relevant information.
 
imago said:
Across the area of the ceiling it is as that's a dead load. It's still a 250kg load no matter how it's placed, and that's the point. Everyone seems to be assuming that the only loading problem is if it's a point or dynamic load, which would be more likely to end ina collapse.

Park it on it's wheels in one place and it's a point load. Ride it around or bounce it up and down and it's a dynamic load.
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I would not recommend
bounce it up and down in a loft !thats just mad !
 
Lath and plaster ceiling fix options?
:birras:
Lath and plaster ceiling fix options?
Lath and plaster ceiling fix options?
Meanwhile on the boardwalk
 
Okay chaps - I've pretty much decided that it'll be a case of take down the L&P and re-board. Messy but I'm old fashioned and I think that is the right option. I reckon every room upstairs will be similar if the interesting patterns in the lining paper all over the place are anything to go by so for me I'd prefer to avoid starting to add all the weight and also not leave all the old crumbly plaster there like a wee reminder of taking the easy option....

I'm really worried about getting the plasterboard home on my motorbike though - wish me luck.

Seriously though, it's been helpful to read through thanks.
 
All i know is this in my town plasterer 1 quote under board & skim. Plasterer 2 quotes pull down etc.

Plaster 1 gets job and puts food on table whilst plasterer 2 goes hungry.

The rest I'm afraid is irrelevant until I hear of a ceiling failing to an overboard.

Until plasterer 1 wins every time.

What people that don't plaster every day need to realise is that you hit a ceiling price excuse the pun for all plastering works and no one will pay a penny more for something that looks identical when painted.
 
Heneage said:
Okay chaps - I've pretty much decided that it'll be a case of take down the L&P and re-board. Messy but I'm old fashioned and I think that is the right option. I reckon every room upstairs will be similar if the interesting patterns in the lining paper all over the place are anything to go by so for me I'd prefer to avoid starting to add all the weight and also not leave all the old crumbly plaster there like a wee reminder of taking the easy option....

I'm really worried about getting the plasterboard home on my motorbike though - wish me luck.

Seriously though, it's been helpful to read through thanks.
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Open the window and have an oscillating fan in the opposite corner, the dust that falls is so fine it hangs in the air, will need a little encouragement to escape. Best of luck
 
Heneage said:
Okay chaps - I've pretty much decided that it'll be a case of take down the L&P and re-board. Messy but I'm old fashioned and I think that is the right option. I reckon every room upstairs will be similar if the interesting patterns in the lining paper all over the place are anything to go by so for me I'd prefer to avoid starting to add all the weight and also not leave all the old crumbly plaster there like a wee reminder of taking the easy option....

I'm really worried about getting the plasterboard home on my motorbike though - wish me luck.

Seriously though, it's been helpful to read through thanks.
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Nice to have a appreciative reply from someone for a change mate.

good luck with your project.
 
Heneage said:
Okay chaps - I've pretty much decided that it'll be a case of take down the L&P and re-board. Messy but I'm old fashioned and I think that is the right option. I reckon every room upstairs will be similar if the interesting patterns in the lining paper all over the place are anything to go by so for me I'd prefer to avoid starting to add all the weight and also not leave all the old crumbly plaster there like a wee reminder of taking the easy option....

I'm really worried about getting the plasterboard home on my motorbike though - wish me luck.

Seriously though, it's been helpful to read through thanks.
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if you intend to remove the ceiling, against most plasterers advice, empty the room,tape up the door on the outside, take a hose pipe into the loft and dampen the ceiling down, and kick it down from the loft. good luck!
 
Nicm said:
Great thread this.
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And after all that for a simple bit of advise the poor dude has now been scared into thinking that I was wrong with me one day and £40 worth of gear ...good luck with the project hope it goes well
I see this everyday and done it for 15 years I just checked my emails and ....no one has sent me one to come back.
Skips £80
Kick down ceiling £100
Clean up and dispose of ceiling £100
Hoovering the whole house for the rest of the week...priceless
 
imago said:
I'm genuinely not trying to cause trouble, or telling anyone how to do their job. I'm just trying to add some information so that everyone can make an informed choice.

You can only make an informed choice between one method and another if you have all the relevant information.
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Right everyone better clear your lofts right out,suitcases kids games golf clubs etc and get rid of water ranks , cylinder tanks etc and hav a combi fitted then, oh and also don't lay any t&g flooring best to levitate across the loft , how bout insulation that must weigh a lot too
 
To be fair. I'm not kissing amigo's arse but anyone would be a brave man to take him on in the knowledge stakes. The guys a walking encyclofookinpaedia!
 
Rossi46 said:
To be fair. I'm not kissing amigo's arse but anyone would be a brave man to take him on in the knowledge stakes. The guys a walking encyclofookinpaedia!
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I not trying to and agree he says some great informative and knowledgeable stuff...but come on ..every overboarded ceiling that has been done is wrong ?
I honestly admit if I am wrong about any work I do..it's like saying put skim on 2mm thick off the back of the bag
Maybe I do need a break from forum
 
imago said:
Yeah? It's not a dynamic or point load so ntohing dramatic like the ceiling collapsing is very likely.

However an additional 250 kg + dead load will cause the ceiling to sag. It's the same weight increase as putting a motorbike in the loft, or 10 25 litre tubs full of water.
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Motorcycle?Now you got my attention ! Mine weights 267kg dry weight and I wouldn do it to be honest! What I learned n my life so far about gravity and age is they don't forgive or forget anyone!
 
He makes a good point in a technical capacity. If you asked a building surveyor/architect the same question i'm sure they'd say the same. In a practical sense i see overboarding adds weight but makes the ceiling stronger in a tensive strength kind of way. I've never had any comebacks, cracks, bowing or anything for that matter.
 
The clash here is more like domestic vs site! On domestic , I guess, budget dictates and securing the job, wether on site you can't overcome or ignore the method statement .
 
vfr12 said:
Motorcycle?Now you got my attention ! Mine weights 267kg dry weight and I wouldn do it to be honest! What I learned n my life so far about gravity and age is they don't forgive or forget anyone!
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How heavy are you VFR? You must be a good 350KG with the bike? Thats a third of a ton being thrown through corners :sorprendido3: haha
 
vfr12 said:
Motorcycle?Now you got my attention ! Mine weights 267kg dry weight and I wouldn do it to be honest! What I learned n my life so far about gravity and age is they don't forgive or forget anyone!
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Mine's about 300 kg, but then it is a 35 year old steel tube framed lump. :LOL:
 
Rossi46 said:
In a practical sense i see overboarding adds weight but makes the ceiling stronger in a tensive strength kind of way. I've never had any comebacks, cracks, bowing or anything for that matter.
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It would if the boards were above the joists, but underneath they just become dead weight until the ceiling bows downwards and then they go into tension.

We all know that a ceiling has to be massively bowed before it becomes visible to the point where it's an issue. I'm not suggesting that overboarding should be outlawed and anyone that does it is a criminal. What I am saying is that if you want to board a first floor ceiling 'properly' 'to best practice' 'to the book' then you should rip the old one down and start again.

Will the customer allways pay for it? No. However that doesn't alter the fact that overboarding isn't the best or 'right' way to do it.
 
vfr12 said:
I bet it goes over the bumps like they don't exist:bananahappy:
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If you hit a rough corner hard it's quite scary unless you rode them like that 20 - 30 years ago and are expecting it. The front and back ends pitch and yaw, but not at the same time or in the same direction. It's a bit like shoving a trifle over a speed hump with an airbed. :)
 
I give up this motor bike just won't go through the loft hatch no matter what way or angle I try
 
imago said:
It would if the boards were above the joists, but underneath they just become dead weight until the ceiling bows downwards and then they go into tension.

We all know that a ceiling has to be massively bowed before it becomes visible to the point where it's an issue. I'm not suggesting that overboarding should be outlawed and anyone that does it is a criminal. What I am saying is that if you want to board a first floor ceiling 'properly' 'to best practice' 'to the book' then you should rip the old one down and start again.

Will the customer allways pay for it? No. However that doesn't alter the fact that overboarding isn't the best or 'right' way to do it.
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Above would make it compressive strength wouldn't it? If the boards are fitted underneath as normal and the edges butted up and screwed with the correct screw length then the timbers would struggle to bow. The outer timbers are connectively supporting the inner timbers.
 
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