Advice needed please - monocouche over new sand/cement or start from scratch

monsieurblack

New Member
Hi all

new here and very much in need of some advice please?

I've had a browse and look around to see if this question has been answered before but couldn't quite find a scenario as specific (older existing render, not new) so hopefully you knowledgeable lot can help :)

Basically we're in the middle of an extension (two storey and loft, so pretty sizeable) and due to the type of brick our house is built in, we've struggled to get brickwork to match.

A compromise has been that we're getting the front and rear elevations brick tinted but the side of the property is 'rendered'. We have always proposed having some sort of monocouche product down the rendered side and that all seemed pretty straight forward...

Unfortunately, whilst we were away on holiday the building team cracked on and got their guy to render the side...but they use a standard sand and cement render. Not what was agreed. Apart from being super frustrating, we already feel like we're massively compromising already by having render and not brickwork and tinting those, so with that said, the builder was happy to rectify.

But digging in to the details that weren't initially apparent it appears that he's proposing to monocouche over the top of the newly applied (couple of months and not painted) sand and cement render. Clearly this is massively more cost effective on his part to get someone in to just do that, but are we taken for a ride? Surely one of the selling points (in our admittedly limited understanding) is now being undermined by having it on top of the sand/cement.

So I guess we're after some friendly and much needed advice from people (you guys!) who aren't in it for anything and can give us some genuine information and advice on how best to proceed.

I do think I can get them to remove the current render first before doing the job 'properly' as we see it, but are we being unnecessarily difficult and awkward in requesting that or would that be hand on heart the 'best' and most ideal way to have it - i.e.. considering this is you home for 10+ years and beyond.

Apologies for the very long first post! just wanted to give you conundrum with context :)

Thanks in advance and absolutely any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

zombie

Private Member
Nice & fair post...

Your correct if monocouche it wants taking back to brick first ad it's heavy sitting on the paint...

Another alternative which imo is the best render anyway is a thin coat silicone render this would only need to be around 5mm overall thickness and would sit on top of the render no problem.
 

monsieurblack

New Member
Hi zombie

many thanks for taking the time to read and reply, much appreciated.

I'm not aware of the silicone render, is this generally considered a 'better' solution long-term for finished rendered walls? To be honest, we were set on having brickwork throughout and are now trying to get our heads round having a rendered side to our property. I guess our main (although we concede it is possibly a naive view point) worry going in to it is the overall maintenance, cracking and overall up keep compared to bricks (appreciate nothing is 'maintenance free' but bricks generally require less upkeep)

With this in mind, we're after the best solution in light of it having to be render. The sand/cement that has only just been put on is currently not painted so assume its a better surface to 'add' anything too (prior to paint applied), but it was obviously done as a 'complete' job, so finishing flush with the corner column of brickwork on the same elevation. so worried that anything added will protrude out from this.

We have a young family and a side door within this wall space and just have the worry of it getting knocked and bashed as they come and go, something we wouldn't really (knowingly) notice with bricks :/

I guess by the sounds of things, we either remove all existing sand/cement and monocouche straight onto the blocks (as originally agreed with the builder) OR leave as is and suggest they use a thin coat silicone render on top of what they've just applied.

If it were your family home for many years to come, what would you do?

Thanks again!
 

monsieurblack

New Member
thanks madmonk

no paint on the sand/cement render no. Do you guys recommend a specific brand of thin coat system beyond a silicone one? Just want to make sure I'm suitability 'educated' when next speaking to them so that I can ensure I actually get what I asked for :)

Is the thin coat literally applied directly on top or do they need to mesh (?) or similar first (massive apologies for the basic questions, truly out of my depth with renders!)

Many thanks
 

spunky

Private Member
Painted or unpainted it would still need a base coat for mono you wouldn’t for thin coat
I wouldn’t hack it off if you can help it that’s a last resort only if the wall won’t take an extra 20mm for mono it’d only be a few mm for thin coat unpainted or 7-10mm ish painted
 

Dansouthcoast84

Private Member
@ari just beat me toit..

brick slips or brick rend which i a render carved to brick effect.

or as above... a 3mm meshcoat and silicone topcoat which can be tinted to the colour of your choice.

i certianly wouldnt hack off
 

johniosaif

Private Member
@ari just beat me toit..

brick slips or brick rend which i a render carved to brick effect.

or as above... a 3mm meshcoat and silicone topcoat which can be tinted to the colour of your choice.

i certianly wouldnt hack off
Hacking off is only a spiteful option , ps would love to do that brick rend sometime, looks brilliant
 

zombie

Private Member
Hi zombie

many thanks for taking the time to read and reply, much appreciated.

I'm not aware of the silicone render, is this generally considered a 'better' solution long-term for finished rendered walls? To be honest, we were set on having brickwork throughout and are now trying to get our heads round having a rendered side to our property. I guess our main (although we concede it is possibly a naive view point) worry going in to it is the overall maintenance, cracking and overall up keep compared to bricks (appreciate nothing is 'maintenance free' but bricks generally require less upkeep)

With this in mind, we're after the best solution in light of it having to be render. The sand/cement that has only just been put on is currently not painted so assume its a better surface to 'add' anything too (prior to paint applied), but it was obviously done as a 'complete' job, so finishing flush with the corner column of brickwork on the same elevation. so worried that anything added will protrude out from this.

We have a young family and a side door within this wall space and just have the worry of it getting knocked and bashed as they come and go, something we wouldn't really (knowingly) notice with bricks :/

I guess by the sounds of things, we either remove all existing sand/cement and monocouche straight onto the blocks (as originally agreed with the builder) OR leave as is and suggest they use a thin coat silicone render on top of what they've just applied.

If it were your family home for many years to come, what would you do?

Thanks again!

A complete silicone system comprises of a very thin base coat of render in cased in mesh.

Then once that's cured you have a very very thin top coat of coloured silicone paint/render applied and rubbed up to give a very slight 1.5mm textured surface.

The system originates from external wall Insulation systems but can also be used on direct brick/block work or over render if below is solid etc.

If you Google wetherby silicone insulation render etc you will see some demos.

I suspect you could even go direct onto your existing render with just the primer and paint/silicone topcoat to keep all details flush etc.

This requires no maintenance as doesn't need painting as you pick your colour from a colour chart etc and can be gently hosed down etc.

Ideally nice to have an meshed underneath though from an anti cracking point of view as sand and cement render is brittle and prone to cracking.

Hope that helps
 

malc

TPF Special Forces
sand and cement render.
we use Krend , 2 may 3 coats of Krend primer to cover the colour of the render in the chosen colour. then Krend acrylic ,1.5 grit is the best it will give a mono type finish.
 
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