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irish_spread said:
WRONG MR BUILDER.

A 12.5 board weighs 20kg and covers 2.9m2 approx. Your average upstairs bedroom would be 15m2 so you would be adding approx 100kg weight, spread across a 15m2 ceiling, 10 kg per m2. That won't make your joists bend lol.
If it were a downstairs ceiling how would it stand up to me, a 100kg person walking on the upstairs floor daily ?
9.5mm board even lighter, easier for the poor plasterer eg nisus

Stick the kettle on and a bit of cash would be handy guvnor
Click to expand...

I'd stick to buttering walls if I were you. Even if you ignore the additional weight of the skim etc and say you figures are correct, you seem to be missing the fact that it's overall weight on a 100mm bearing at each end which causes the joists to sag.

Giving a weight per square metre is a loading for a solid surface. For a beam it's point loading and overall weight.

You even manage to point out the flaw in your own argument. A ground floor ceiling is fixed to the floor joists for the first floor. Guess what? Those joists are sized to carry that load. What load do you imagine the joists below a loft as sized to carry?

You do seem to excel at talking bollox while you try and make yourself sound clever.
 
flynnyman said:
Never noticed it said that on the back but the weight is still the same but shared unless you cut the board in half and carry one piece each :)
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Look n back two stick men carrying a board same as a x on front to indicate middle of board
 
imago said:
I'd stick to buttering walls if I were you. Even if you ignore the additional weight of the skim etc and say you figures are correct, you seem to be missing the fact that it's overall weight on a 100mm bearing at each end which causes the joists to sag.

Giving a weight per square metre is a loading for a solid surface. For a beam it's point loading and overall weight.

You even manage to point out the flaw in your own argument. A ground floor ceiling is fixed to the floor joists for the first floor. Guess what? Those joists are sized to carry that load. What load do you imagine the joists below a loft as sized to carry?

You do seem to excel at talking bollox while you try and make yourself sound clever.
Click to expand...

Oh I see, you are definitely a builder then.

1. The additional weight of skim would be approx 25kg, it would probably be 2 or 3 times that if you factor in having to bond out the non overboarded ceiling to straighten, let's call that 75 kg plus 25kg of skim. ie 100 kg, the weight of the boards funnily enough
2.The ground floor ceiling, Erm, would the calculations done, in my house, built in 18899 for example, have factored in someone that weighs 90kg walking all over it, and sometimes even sleeping on it for 8hrs ?
3. The loft/attic. How many '000's of homes have attic rooms that have been ad hoc converted into bedrooms directly onto the joists, albeit with chipboard/floorboards spreading the weight have had massive, life threatening ceiling collapses ?

Would love to chat more but have to do some floor screed calculations for the African elephant circus that's coming to my town tomorrow


No need to get angry
Love and kisses

Irish_spread xx
 
irish_spread said:
Oh I see, you are definitely a builder then.

1. The additional weight of skim would be approx 25kg, it would probably be 2 or 3 times that if you factor in having to bond out the non overboarded ceiling to straighten, let's call that 75 kg plus 25kg of skim. ie 100 kg, the weight of the boards funnily enough
2.The ground floor ceiling, Erm, would the calculations done, in my house, built in 18899 for example, have factored in someone that weighs 90kg walking all over it, and sometimes even sleeping on it for 8hrs ?
3. The loft/attic. How many '000's of homes have attic rooms that have been ad hoc converted into bedrooms directly onto the joists, albeit with chipboard/floorboards spreading the weight have had massive, life threatening ceiling collapses ?

Would love to chat more but have to do some floor screed calculations for the African elephant circus that's coming to my town tomorrow


No need to get angry
Love and kisses

Irish_spread xx
Click to expand...
Oh so the African elephants are coming home :)
 
Pagey said:
Look n back two stick men carrying a board same as a x on front to indicate middle of board
Click to expand...
Yeh remember seeing the stick men now you mention if but thought that was showing how to carry them also always read the x as where to screw on 600 studs.
 
Where's the meet? I was in Southport the other day and it looked alright. Pedalos and stuff. Bit hard to get to, though. I'll go if manhillside is going.
 
Yeh I will go but I will do the stuff downstairs and only the walls without Windows or beads and where kitchen units are going and the rest is being tiles :)
 
Dropsalot said:
Past, lads........shhhh........listen up...what about we get Jess & tomboy to "show us how it's done"..... We'll turn the heating right up.....whew....and , well plaster man will have his GoPro......YouTube gold methinks.lol
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Our rates are 500 per person a day. If anyone asks if we're winning, we walk.
 
flynnyman said:
Yeh remember seeing the stick men now you mention if but thought that was showing how to carry them also always read the x as where to screw on 600 studs.
Click to expand...
The x indicates the middle of the board they got them on the 900s as well remember Bg have a 5mm tolerance on their boards and the stick men are to indicate that it's a 2 man job lifting boards useless information but now you know
 
Good call on the cake there Scottie. I'm domestic and my tools don't leave the van till I've been fed and watered.
 
irish_spread said:
Oh I see, you are definitely a builder then.

1. The additional weight of skim would be approx 25kg, it would probably be 2 or 3 times that if you factor in having to bond out the non overboarded ceiling to straighten, let's call that 75 kg plus 25kg of skim. ie 100 kg, the weight of the boards funnily enough
2.The ground floor ceiling, Erm, would the calculations done, in my house, built in 18899 for example, have factored in someone that weighs 90kg walking all over it, and sometimes even sleeping on it for 8hrs ?
3. The loft/attic. How many '000's of homes have attic rooms that have been ad hoc converted into bedrooms directly onto the joists, albeit with chipboard/floorboards spreading the weight have had massive, life threatening ceiling collapses ?

Would love to chat more but have to do some floor screed calculations for the African elephant circus that's coming to my town tomorrow


No need to get angry
Love and kisses

Irish_spread xx
Click to expand...

1) So when you board and skim?
2) Good point, up until 1985 when graded timber was introduced no calculations were done for joists. Which is why floor joists in older properties were larger than after 1985. For loft/ceiling joists were simply worked as the smallest they could get away with carrying the ceiling. Increasing the load on those could be fine, it could be doubling the load, it could be a greater increase. After 1985 ceiling joists were calculated to carry only the dead load imposed as there was to be no live load. So overboarding and skimming those ceilings will double the design load. In either case (pre or post 1985) it's the very definition of overloading.
3)Loads are overloaded, very few collapse, and I doubt any of them will be life threatening unless there's a motorbike in the loft. Chipboards or floorboards nailed or screwed onto joists don't spread the load, they increase the thickness of the joist increasing it's rigidity and resisting compression along the top face of the joist. That aside, your question is basically 'people frequently get away with doing something they shouldn't, so will it be OK for me to do it?'

Angry? I'm probably one of the least angry people you'd ever meet.

When this all came up the first time, and also this time, I'm merely pointing out that it isn't the way it should be done and the reasons. If the customer wants it doing that way for cost reasons then so be it, but they should have the choice/information. As you mention using bonding to straighten a ceiling, it needs straightening because the joists have bowed. They have bowed because of the load on them. Surely you can see that the answer isn't going to be to add more/double the weight on them?

Everyone in the building game has done things which are either not correct or a shortcut. If you and the customer know why and what's involved that's an informed choice. If you do it without thinking about it or knowing what the possible outcomes are that's just shoddy DIY.
 
that's a lot of words , I'll not lie I've not read it.
hopefully they'll do a movie version.

anyhoo Larry get some of these on order for the little shindig my old fruit .

FB_IMG_1473457005854.jpg
 
imago said:
1) So when you board and skim?
2) Good point, up until 1985 when graded timber was introduced no calculations were done for joists. Which is why floor joists in older properties were larger than after 1985. For loft/ceiling joists were simply worked as the smallest they could get away with carrying the ceiling. Increasing the load on those could be fine, it could be doubling the load, it could be a greater increase. After 1985 ceiling joists were calculated to carry only the dead load imposed as there was to be no live load. So overboarding and skimming those ceilings will double the design load. In either case (pre or post 1985) it's the very definition of overloading.
3)Loads are overloaded, very few collapse, and I doubt any of them will be life threatening unless there's a motorbike in the loft. Chipboards or floorboards nailed or screwed onto joists don't spread the load, they increase the thickness of the joist increasing it's rigidity and resisting compression along the top face of the joist. That aside, your question is basically 'people frequently get away with doing something they shouldn't, so will it be OK for me to do it?'

Angry? I'm probably one of the least angry people you'd ever meet.

When this all came up the first time, and also this time, I'm merely pointing out that it isn't the way it should be done and the reasons. If the customer wants it doing that way for cost reasons then so be it, but they should have the choice/information. As you mention using bonding to straighten a ceiling, it needs straightening because the joists have bowed. They have bowed because of the load on them. Surely you can see that the answer isn't going to be to add more/double the weight on them?

Everyone in the building game has done things which are either not correct or a shortcut. If you and the customer know why and what's involved that's an informed choice. If you do it without thinking about it or knowing what the possible outcomes are that's just shoddy DIY.
Click to expand...


Come again ?
 
Bloody heck, just saw 1985. My typo mistake. My house was built in 1899, still standing. Don't worry, I'll telegram the authorities in the morning warning them about your concerns

Kind regards
Edward

A worried citizen
 
imago said:
1) So when you board and skim?
2) Good point, up until 1985 when graded timber was introduced no calculations were done for joists. Which is why floor joists in older properties were larger than after 1985. For loft/ceiling joists were simply worked as the smallest they could get away with carrying the ceiling. Increasing the load on those could be fine, it could be doubling the load, it could be a greater increase. After 1985 ceiling joists were calculated to carry only the dead load imposed as there was to be no live load. So overboarding and skimming those ceilings will double the design load. In either case (pre or post 1985) it's the very definition of overloading.
3)Loads are overloaded, very few collapse, and I doubt any of them will be life threatening unless there's a motorbike in the loft. Chipboards or floorboards nailed or screwed onto joists don't spread the load, they increase the thickness of the joist increasing it's rigidity and resisting compression along the top face of the joist. That aside, your question is basically 'people frequently get away with doing something they shouldn't, so will it be OK for me to do it?'

Angry? I'm probably one of the least angry people you'd ever meet.

When this all came up the first time, and also this time, I'm merely pointing out that it isn't the way it should be done and the reasons. If the customer wants it doing that way for cost reasons then so be it, but they should have the choice/information. As you mention using bonding to straighten a ceiling, it needs straightening because the joists have bowed. They have bowed because of the load on them. Surely you can see that the answer isn't going to be to add more/double the weight on them?

Everyone in the building game has done things which are either not correct or a shortcut. If you and the customer know why and what's involved that's an informed choice. If you do it without thinking about it or knowing what the possible outcomes are that's just shoddy DIY.
Click to expand...
I can't even be bothered to read that
 
irish_spread said:
Bloody heck, just saw 1985. My typo mistake. My house was built in 1899, still standing. Don't worry, I'll telegram the authorities in the morning warning them about your concerns

Kind regards
Edward

A worried citizen
Click to expand...
I was only born in 1984 to long winded for me to read I be honest but with waffle there comes a lie bullshit baffles brains and all that
 
One of my rentals was built in1930, all ceilings in the house were overboarded 10 years ago when I first bought it, not a crack or sag yet.
 
End of the day

Plasterers are always right
We know it , all the other trades know it
Men in white , put things right.
 
theplasterman said:
End of the day

Plasterers are always right
We know it , all the other trades know it
Men in white , put things right.
Click to expand...
Apparently we don't know cos everyone is a plasterer and everyone has done a bit of plastering or knows a plasterer and knows how long it will take or is it just the clowns I meet lately
 
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