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i think so yeah. and to help it stop slumping when ruling. think its a load of b*ll***s tho. so much easier with a 6-8ft h section. after speakijng about it last night i used them today and its so much better
 
henry said:
Hey , Hey FreeD they was the days when we use to go for drink at dinner. what do you expect in the afternoons when we was half pissed. Thinking about it there is more rough feckers about now then there ever whas. I will tell something else a lot of the old lads who served in the 2 nd world war those in navy spent hours on watch we salt water spray blinding there eyes and them poor feckers in the desert blinded by sand is it any wonder there eye sight was poor.
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funny you should say that henry alot of the old guys that worked for the big london firms like johnathan james and alan mills were all in the merchant navy and forces good fcuking spreads aswell
 
Andy do you rule free hand or use screeds? Also how much do you float before you start to rule? Like you said everyones different and its good to see how others do it.
 
Don't andy use screeds, would love to see this being done properly....

i'm tempted to try it, but i was always taught free hand, they taught u screeds in collage, but i was always under the impression that you'd never earn any many floating on site work doing it that way and look a bit daft, not doubting it at all andy, i'm really quite intrigued...

Can understand using it on private jobs and stuff where u have more time, or on walls that had to be plum, kitchens etc...

I would love to use screeds if it was as quick...

My uncle always use to lay on then use the darby as a sort of big trowel to move the gear around, then check with the straight edge after....And it was always bang on after!
 
beddy said:
Andy do you rule free hand or use screeds? Also how much do you float before you start to rule? Like you said everyones different and its good to see how others do it.
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Internally I always use screeds apart from little returns/walls. Externally I use a hybrid system some screeds and some freehand.
Over the last thirty years just about every house I worked on has been built using high suction blocks mainly Celcon, Thermalite, Tarmac or Durox and I just find it easier, quicker and more accurate to use box screeds on these.
I keep my screeds about 12-14in wide, which are put on from top to bottom and then ruled and plumbed.
On walls up to about 4m long I'll just use the two screeds, one at each end, Once these are both on I don't leave them to pick up as some suggest, I haven't got time for that. So it's straight on with the gear, working from right to left.
On a wall of say 3m long I'll only work down the wall about 21/2 block courses at a time at the full depth (13mmish) in one coat, this way when I rule of the muck is still soft when ruled of and is knocked straight of the feather edge back onto the spot board. Not all dry and crumbly but soft and ready to go again. As I rule of because I'm always working on soft gear it's easy to close it in as I go and I must admit I'm really fussy about how tidy my floating is as I think and extra few minutes at this stage saves a lot of time when it comes to skimming.
I've had guys work for me that use the free hand method but they always seem to be ruling of dry horrid muck that I wouldn't want back on my board and rushing around trying to get the wall on as quickly as possible before it goes dry. I find my way I work at a more steady pace but always seem to get at least as much done as the guys doing it free hand.
I hope this helps Steve.
 
If the walls going to be tiled or units i'll probably do screeds depends on size of wall...then I know its going to be bang on flat. Otherwise freehand all the way.
 
i was always taught with screeds. but horizontal screeds. run 1 3 blocks high at around head to shoulder height. run a coat over the entire width, troweling on pushing up, then 2nd coat straight away putting on side to side. run an edge over it to get it straight horizontally. then do the same the bottom 3 blocks of the wall all the way across. then fill the middle and rule vertically across to plumb the wall vertical knowing it is straight horizontally. obviously double check the wall horizontally at some point. then fill the top. it is quick as and gets ur walls spot on every time.
 
I've seen it done that often way Nick and did try it just once but I found that it was more awkward to get the wall plumb and when ruling of vertically more seemed to end up on the floor as gravity is working against you.
 
i think its like anything. its what ur used to. there is a knack to it, but im sure i couldnt do it your way
 
essexandy said:
I've seen it done that often way Nick and did try it just once but I found that it was more awkward to get the wall plumb and when ruling of vertically more seemed to end up on the floor as gravity is working against you.
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If you were to rule it off vertically with a wet edge it will slide onto the floor every time & before you know it you've got 'moon-boots' on. In reality you would have the edge at a slight tilt to halt the slide, but you would also make sure that any excess water was wiped off the edge first. Did anyone ever use planks around the floor to cut back for a nice clean bottom edge?
 
nickelarse said:
trust me mate, it doesnt all fall on the floor lol
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Yeah I know, that's what I'm saying nick, and yeah I would always rule sideways (horizontal & vertically). We were always told the 2 most critical rooms to get right were the kitchen - for the units - and the bog, cos, as my old gaffer used to say "If a fella gets in there without his paper, he's got fkall else to look at, just your walls" :RpS_thumbup:
 
very true. my old boss used to put a bloody 12ft edge on our work afterwards!! that was a pain in the arse. everything had to be bang on. thats why i prefere using big edges. he was a proper fussy c.unt but paid well
 
nickelarse said:
just out of interest, does this mean none of you rule sideways?
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On external work I will rule vertically as well but on internals because I'm using screeds, although I will check it I rarely need to rule it. Of course I can rule vertically without dropping gear all over the place as that's obviously how I form my screeds but having seen others doing it on the whole wall regularly there does seem to be quite a bit on the deck.
 
so would you do 2½ courses down, the length of the wall, rule it, another 2½, rule it etc?

how will you go with the machine then andy? will you still do screeds or is it not necessary now?
 
So when doing screeds andy, you only rule vertical?

So say on a 3m wall you would have like 3 vertical band all plummed up vertical, then you would just fill in the middle and rule off excess?....


Du you plum them up with a level to?...Or just flat with the edge....

I really want to get some floating to try this method ha ha.....Can still do it with hardwall...
 
beddy said:
so would you do 2½ courses down, the length of the wall, rule it, another 2½, rule it etc?

how will you go with the machine then andy? will you still do screeds or is it not necessary now?
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Yeah 2 1/2 right across rule of until completely happy with it and then come down another 2 1/2 courses.
As Nick says I will have to change my method if I use the Ritmo for floating inside, but if it does suit me or I can't get as good a standard using the machine then I'll ditch it. Quality is everything.

nickelarse said:
why do u work right to left andy? u a lefty?
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No I'm not cack handed Nick I just do it properly:rolleyes) . It's just how I was taught, a natural sweep of the trowel arm pulls the muck into what you all ready have on the wall which reduces droppsies in my experience from watching lads that do it wrong like you.:RpS_wink: Bear in mind I'm putting the whole thickness on in one go not the two coats as a lot of lads do.
 
i dont no if iv fully understood the way you say you do it andy, but it sounds like alot of ruling??

i had never ruled a whole wall at a time before andy until i got the ritmo, but as long as the walls arent too sucky, the gear is still soppying wet when uv got the whole lot on. then its a doddle as long as uv sprayed it on evenly.

and thinking about it, i think i have only hand applied twice in the last 3 yrs. and that was about 4 bags of bonding on 1 and about 2 tonne of s+c at stanley kubricks house coz the ritmo wouldnt reach up the bloody castle and they wouldnt let me come through the house. and i hated every minute of it
 
s.p.t plastering said:
So when doing screeds andy, you only rule vertical?

So say on a 3m wall you would have like 3 vertical band all plummed up vertical, then you would just fill in the middle and rule off excess?....


Du you plum them up with a level to?...Or just flat with the edge....

I really want to get some floating to try this method ha ha.....Can still do it with hardwall...
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On a 3m wall I'd only have two screeds, one at each internal (end) which are only ruled vertically and are checked for plumb using a level. After that the wall is ruled horizontally only.
On a longer wall I'd put the two screeds on then put a narrow band right across the wall, and once I'm happy that I've got it straight from one screed to the other I will drop a third or even a fourth screed down from the top strip. As long as these screeds are also plumb the wall will run through straight and true and be plumb.
This is why I'm not sure that the machine will suit me for internal floating, but we'll see.
 
nickelarse said:
i dont no if iv fully understood the way you say you do it andy, but it sounds like alot of ruling??

i had never ruled a whole wall at a time before andy until i got the ritmo, but as long as the walls arent too sucky, the gear is still soppying wet when uv got the whole lot on. then its a doddle as long as uv sprayed it on evenly.

and thinking about it, i think i have only hand applied twice in the last 3 yrs. and that was about 4 bags of bonding on 1 and about 2 tonne of s+c at stanley kubricks house coz the ritmo wouldnt reach up the bloody castle and they wouldnt let me come through the house. and i hated every minute of it
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To be honest Nick I can only really compare my way with the good spreads I've employed that do it your way, and I always thought they were ruling of a lot more than me, but you might have a better knack to it than those guys.
If I'm honest Nick what I'm really hoping for is that the Ritmo will get the gear on quick enough and wet enough that I can still rule a wall out in the same sequence that I do now without it going so dry to be uncomfortable. So while I'm ruling out my son will be spraying the next area ahead of me. And of course once he's learnt how to get the walls bang on with the rule then I'll be the one spraying as I'm getting on now.
 
so how are you planning on doing it? put the whole wall on, then rule the screeds and then the middles with the whole lot on? or spray the screeds then the middles?

i did try to do that sort of thing when i started, but found more difficult. the technique has to be a bit different from hand applied. theres a lot more ruling off and then slapping it back on in the hollows. thats why most machine guys use a h section. if u watch stuarts video of them spraying mp75 with ian ruling behind, thats the best way to do it if you can. stay about a board width behind the sprayer and work along the wall with him. the gears always fresh and if u get excess just slap it on the wall infront of the sprayer
 
nickelarse said:
so how are you planning on doing it? put the whole wall on, then rule the screeds and then the middles with the whole lot on?
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That's exactly what I'd like to be able to do on all but the larger walls but like you I'm not sure it'd work out.
As I said if I can't get the walls the way I want them using the machine it will be ditched just the same as it'll be with the skimming, if it doesn't work out I'll go back to hand applying it. And then if I don't like using it for the externals (bearing in mind almost all are S&C) as well then it will be moved on.
 
Andy isn't it extra work plumbing screeds I've never seen anyone do that and get pulled for it not being level
 
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