where do u think i stand with this

Members online

Total: 439 (members: 2, guests: 437)

Share this page

Status
Not open for further replies.
nickelarse

nickelarse

Private Member
priced a job a while back for a building firm. all legit, mcds and retention etc.

anyway, it was a can u do us a favour job, so i went to the site and priced it up. sent an email saying i thought it would be 4k. ended up negotiating to 3600. got sent a order along with the usual crap and a bill of quants. the bill of quants had been filled out by the qs totalling 3600. i thought nothing more of it as we had previously agreed to price and he knew it was from a site visit.

anyway, finished the job, invoiced the amount and the qs has said i dont owe u that much. the bill of quants was wrong and now iv revised the meterage it comes to 2100. so thats what i owe u. i said well no coz i didnt price off the bill of quants so its irrelevent. hes said that if the boq is sent along with an order and not queried then the boq stands as the basis for the price, subject to a remeasure. ended up him saying i have 2 options, tell him to get f**k*d and get knocked 1500, or shake his hand and hell meet me half way at 750. i didnt have a lot of choice but havent signed the final account yet.

where do i stand on this? is he right? or can i fight it?

cheers. nick
 
no i didnt supply a rate. i just gave the price of 3600. it was based more on time which i explained to him as it was awkward and had little meterage in it. i explained to him it was this figure to cover me at a rate, a labourer at a rate and my travel. i was then sent an order, and a boq that the qs filled out with this own rates to a total of 3600. i assumed this was to substantialte to the building company the price.
 
rip his head off and sh** down his neck
why o' why do we keep taken this
if we worked in a factory we would all go out on strike
its time we all stood together
lets all start a Revelation
p.s Ive had a bad day
 
You got 3 choices.
accept the 750 extra (maybe try a grand) and move on. This will happen to you all the time if you deal with building firms. Sometimes the screw up and pay you for stuff you never did so it evens out.
or
Tell him you dont accept his offer and write him saying he has 14 days to pay you fully cleared the 3600 hundred pounds that you agreed or you will take him to court.Advise him you dont want this but you aint spending your time arguing. the fact you turned up to do the work and have a written order gives him stuff to worry about. a court will favour you but its gonna take a year.
or
Tell him your serbian labourers mate has been asking if you have any debts that need collecting since he found out about this. He seems very keen to establish himself blah blah
 
did you supply the materials if you did just take them back leave them with the f**k*d up walls they had before you skimmed then up.
we did this once wen i was working for a flooring company they had laid a ton of nice viynal and then got knocked so the guvnor got us workers to meet him at 2 in the morning at the site, he had the keys and took us in and told us to cut up all the flooring take it up and leave in a pile in the site agents office.
anouther firm i used to know went backrupt cos of a job they took on and kept messing up anyway they had some plumbers in and they forgot to run wastes for everything, so naturally they knocked the plumbers, that night they broke in and riped all the copper out the place and smashed all the walls that we had worked hard on
 
He will probably win if it went to court to be honest, unless you have anything in writting about the £3500 as a fixed price.

The cheeky **** has had you right over and he knew it from the start, otherwise why would he have bothered with the boq?

What I'd do is follow him home one night after work. Then knock on and say if I dont get the full amount I will be back with some lads.
 
You say you sent an email telling them £4k, is there any other correspondence, apart from verbal?
 
Your Fcuked mate, my mate lost £30,000 last year similar, these QSs are only out to shaft you.
 
Tossers!!
Tell him if he doesn't pay you what your owed then you will just sell the debt!

Kebab king where's that guys number:RpS_wink:
 
i still cant see how plastering as a trade these people try mugging us off over prices
its not asif its a job you can pick up over night takes years of practise to become a good qaulity and tidy spread
but were ever you read on diffrent forums or down the pub chatting to other builders its always the plasterer that gets knocked on the price
we done shop down in pompey few years back fair treck from were i live was good meter rate cant remeber what was exactly but the company had agreed the price but was verbal
got there at 5.30 in moring 7.00 in evening i nipping out got kebabs before loading van 3 big hits in the day
got call next day from company saying its lovley job how much we owe we said 900 quid the price agreed
then for next half hour he refused to pay that for a days work !!
he new the metre rate and was happy with the job
just were ever theres a hardworking tradesman theres a big boss man trying to pull his pantsdown over money
 
nelly said:
He will probably win if it went to court to be honest, unless you have anything in writting about the £3500 as a fixed price.

The cheeky **** has had you right over and he knew it from the start, otherwise why would he have bothered with the boq?

What I'd do is follow him home one night after work. Then knock on and say if I dont get the full amount I will be back with some lads.
Click to expand...

The qs sent him an order for £3,600 and it doesnt matter if its written or not. The fact nick turned up demonstrates a price had been agreed and he was allowed to carry on. If nothing was agreed verbally then how would the job get started

If you go to court the 3 of you will sit in a courtroom. You the judge and the firms rep. The firm will come out with all sorts of shite to put you off taking it further if they make it to court. The judge will be waiting until he is satisfied that the work was actually carried out. He just sits there listening to you argue more or less. Then he will order you to appoint an expert who is independent. The expert will quantify the value of the work and present a report to the judge. The judge then makes his desicion.
The judge cannot give legal advice but he will confirm that if you have been and done the work then you are entitled to payment. The expert report assists him in making his judgement. The costs are awarded to the loser.

You will not loose this case Nick and you do not need sollicitors, only common sense. However it will take yonks to get a judgement and then they can stall payment. If they dont care about their credit rating then you have less chance of getting your money and if they are a ltd company with no assets you have even less chance. You will end up going for a winding up order. All this is time that you could be working and earning. Approx 4 days all told with days off for hearings

If the firm are intent on staying in business then they will pay you because they will get no credit with a ccj on them and will not even be able to renew a overdraft. You have to make the call youself.
I have taken people to court and speak from experience in all the above.
Myself i would take the extra 750 and tell em not to phone you again. Work a weekend and you are back to square 1
 
i agree with blones take the extra money and tell him to go **** himself. they mabey get a rather heavy set mate to make a visit and try to collect the rest of the debt anyway, just to s**t him up a bit
 
if there was a post of the month blones youd win it, thats spot on

i had a similiar experience to nick,
i was workng for a medium size firm in 2009,getting paid regularly be it 30 days from invoice, but that was in the contract so fair enough.
it come to the completion of the job and i submitted my final invoice of £9800,left it at that expected payment in 30 days at this stage i was invoicing the firm about 10 grand a month and was getting paid so i was confident i would have no problem and up to this stage id had about 30 grand off them in just over 3 month.
then towards the end of the month i get a call off the site agent saying there was a problem with some of the work, i thought just a bit of snagging so went and took a look ,turns out it was just a bit of cracking filled it everythings fine anyhow wanted me to invoice them again that month which ment i wasnt getting paid for another month, wasnt happy kicked up a stink but hey ho id been alright up to then so kind of bit my tounge.
month passes no payment, made contact with site agent, basically he says we are not paying for substandard work ,started going on about alsorts of shite,wanting to pay me around 6 and ahalf there and then, i poliety tell him to bugger off,anyhow long story short i take them to court, a very stressfull time for me is an understatement,arguments with the mrs etc but just as we are at court the company goes bust doesnt it so after all the court procedures and cost i get next to nothing.

i was owed £9800 plus all my time chasing the debt etc not to mention the worry.
the sum i got ......£120 because i was that far down creditors list

the whole episode cost me well over ten grand plus i nearly spilt up with the mrs.
as blones says take the offer and have nothing more to do with them, i wish id have cut my losses at the time and settled for 6 and half grand there and then.theres always some one worse off than you nick.
 
Last edited:
ok cheers for that blones and owls. its a bit gutting but like u say its a bit of a cut ur losses. sounds like a lot of hassle getting the money
back which is a bit s**t for people owed money. i dont get whys theyve done it tho. i do the odd contract for them, just finished a 20k job, and theyre always happy with what iv done. i know a couple of the agents from school and always go and do finishing off bits on jobs that other firms are doing as favours. obviously next time they ask ill have to say no. makes no sense to me why everyones trying to knock everyone
 
bubbles65 said:
You say you sent an email telling them £4k, is there any other correspondence, apart from verbal?
Click to expand...

just ,e sending a price, 4k for labour mats and plant. we spoke on the phone and then the order and boq was sent. and as far as i remember i had already started before it was sent as iv not had any probs with them before.
 
The first loss is always the best loss. just make it up here and there on other jobs. If he will meet you at 750 try a grand. Try adding if you pay me today i will take .... when doing the negotiating
 
IMO mate its the story of two evils,

you verbally agreed a price at 3600 so all he did was squeeze that price into a BoQ to suit. so the price was not really applied to the quants until he made the price fit the paperwork (he prob knew what he was doing btw) however the measure seems to have shrunk and it sounds like your contract was a 'subject to re-measure' (something I try to always get because there is normally always more work than on the bill, but something they hardly ever agree to as they want 'fixed price sum' so I cant get my extras) So you have ended up in a situation where the documantation has got you hook line and sinker he can reduce the price as per the re-measure status of the paperwork that he applied your quote to. It was probably for ease that the pric was fitted into the BoQ one way or another but you really needed a fixed price sum contract for the execution of th works not rates applicable.

Weather he moved the goalposts on purpose or not you will never know but the fact is th way the contract is set out he is in the stronger position and you will be better off taking th offer on the table.

This is common practice for contractors unforunately, as soon as I started working as a contractor I had to learn about construction law as it takes more of your time than plastering or rendering. Hate this country sometimes

sorry Nick
 
When I first started an old dog told me "If anyone asks you if you want some money - even before it's due - snap their hands off cos they might be dead tommorrow"...........That firm may be dead tommorrow so grab the offer while it's there (or negotiate for a bit more like said above). Don't f*ck them off yet though - add a bit onto each job until you've got what's due - or get on a job of theirs' and load the van up with their gear, then blow them out:RpS_thumbup:
 
owls said:
if there was a post of the month blones youd win it, thats spot on

i had a similiar experience to nick,
i was workng for a medium size firm in 2009,getting paid regularly be it 30 days from invoice, but that was in the contract so fair enough.
it come to the completion of the job and i submitted my final invoice of £9800,left it at that expected payment in 30 days at this stage i was invoicing the firm about 10 grand a month and was getting paid so i was confident i would have no problem and up to this stage id had about 30 grand off them in just over 3 month.
then towards the end of the month i get a call off the site agent saying there was a problem with some of the work, i thought just a bit of snagging so went and took a look ,turns out it was just a bit of cracking filled it everythings fine anyhow wanted me to invoice them again that month which ment i wasnt getting paid for another month, wasnt happy kicked up a stink but hey ho id been alright up to then so kind of bit my tounge.
month passes no payment, made contact with site agent, basically he says we are not paying for substandard work ,started going on about alsorts of shite,wanting to pay me around 6 and ahalf there and then, i poliety tell him to bugger off,anyhow long story short i take them to court, a very stressfull time for me is an understatement,arguments with the mrs etc but just as we are at court the company goes bust doesnt it so after all the court procedures and cost i get next to nothing.

i was owed £9800 plus all my time chasing the debt etc not to mention the worry.
the sum i got ......£120 because i was that far down creditors list

the whole episode cost me well over ten grand plus i nearly spilt up with the mrs.
as blones says take the offer and have nothing more to do with them, i wish id have cut my losses at the time and settled for 6 and half grand there and then.theres always some one worse off than you nick.
Click to expand...

Again, unfortunately this is normal when you become a contractor 9 times out of 10 you never get your last payment or if you do its never in full.

Got 11K outstanding on a final for 1 firm that they are trying to argue is only 8k plus they owe a grand or two from every previous monthly invoice as they never paid in full each time - court a ction a rolling again. My fekin suit gets more wear than my snickers kecks.

Seriously If someone came along and said john heres a job and the wage was ok I would fekin shut the firm tomorrow.
 
Nisus said:
Tossers!!
Tell him if he doesn't pay you what your owed then you will just sell the debt!

Kebab king where's that guys number:RpS_wink:
Click to expand...

I habe the guys number in my phone, its not a pretty way to go, and its going to cost you.But some times its worth it , especially when you see them being pushed around in a wheel chair.
 
if nick asked them to raise the prices on the bill of quants would they do this to meet his price?
 
spunky said:
if nick asked them to raise the prices on the bill of quants would they do this to meet his price?
Click to expand...

no mate the BoQ is there to set out the rates for the work before the job kicks of, they are filled in before they will not move the rates on the bill they are doing the opposite and using the bill against him to lower his price overall, the rates on the bill have not come down tha quants on the measure of the actual work has.

so imagine if the bill states 36 items at £1000 each subject to re-measure before the job started for example, now nick is being held to the re-measur of only 21 items still at £1000 per item.
 
spunky said:
so theyve knowingly added meterage that dont exist to make up the price?
Click to expand...

pretty much. the boq nearly halfed when they "remeasured" it. i never signed the boq as i just looked at it and thought **** knows, iv given him the price already so its irrelevent. obviously its not
 
plasterjfe said:
no mate the BoQ is there to set out the rates for the work before the job kicks of, they are filled in before they will not move the rates on the bill they are doing the opposite and using the bill against him to lower his price overall, the rates on the bill have not come down tha quants on the measure of the actual work has.

so imagine if the bill states 36 items at £1000 each subject to re-measure before the job started for example, now nick is being held to the re-measur of only 21 items still at £1000 per item.
Click to expand...

thats right mate. i think it was intentional as id explained to him the reasons for the price being x amount of days, x amount on gear and the travel being 2 hours away. only thing that makes it more interesting is the owner of the company is my mates dad. but last time i had a prob he said he didnt want to get involved, it was down to me and the qs to sort out.
 
Where there's money there is people in snazzy shoes nice motors and ......sorry mate I'm off to barbados for the weekend can we sort it monday
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top