Skim going boast

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hargun

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Hi all hope someone can help
My mate and me have each been plastering about thirty years, about 5 years ago we done a new build in the country, complete plastering job inside and out. About 3-4 mths after we finished the contractor contacted me to say that the skim had started going boast here and there in a few rooms. We couldnt understand what the problem was as i say plastering a life time and never had this happen before. The only explanation we could come up with was that there was no running water on the site just a newly sunk well, the houseowner and contractor both said to use this, as it would be fine and would be the only source of water on site. We were'nt happy about this as the water was murky and smelled a bit. We went and repaired the work anyway, reputation and so on being important free of charge i might add. Now 5 years later the contractor has come back saying the client still refuses to pay him the £25,000 he owes him as this prob persists, he says the client claims to have got experts out who have said the skim coat is only 1mm thick which is crap, because there is 2 coats on as usual, and that also the nail marks made by the float might not be deep enough which again is crap, as i would be using a float and so would my mate, so there is a very slim chance both of us would have scored the floating coat to lightly. But as i said never happened us the 25 yrs previous or 5 years since that house. Again the only difference is that this house was the only one we have ever done before or since that we had to use well water. What does everyone think.
I am worried we are being used as the scapegoats here , as of course now the well water is fine having been treated and so on.
 
How many jobs have you done in the past where you've had problems and how many jobs have you used water out of a well and had problems lol, do you do a lot of work for him and have you been fully paid up? When you say boasting has it blowed? Did it go off quicker than usual etc
 
i would take legal advice i mean after 5 years,and the main contractor is still owed 25,000 quid, this should have been sorted one way or another long ago with that ammount of money involved, could be the customer has overspent and is just looking for slightest excuse not to pay, get everything together and see a solicitor tell him whats happened ,but its this 5 year thing i keep going back to hargun, far too long
 
As Hector said, 5 years later, forget about it and sleep at night you have been paid you know the problem it was the water but you told them as for the builder being owed 25g 5years later more the cnt him.
 
hector said:
i would take legal advice i mean after 5 years,and the main contractor is still owed 25,000 quid, this should have been sorted one way or another long ago with that ammount of money involved, could be the customer has overspent and is just looking for slightest excuse not to pay, get everything together and see a solicitor tell him whats happened ,but its this 5 year thing i keep going back to hargun, far too long
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I think you hit the nail in the head on the head i think he has over spent, the contractor has been chasing him for this length of time. As i say i went in and done a few bits a couple of months after the job was completed just for my own piece of mind and have heard nothing until now. And just refering to an earlier post up the page, no this is the only time anything like this has ever happened to me,and the only time we have used well water. When i say boast the skim comes away from the sand and cement floating coat and either falls off or can be easily took off
 
if youve been paid up then yeah tell them to poke it but just out of interest my previous question still stands
 
Why is the contractor telling you this five random years later? I agree with the rest. It's not your problem. You said well water was dodgey, they said use it. You went back to repair work in good will even thoug you'd advised against the well water. I feel sorry for the contractor but you've done your job, they suck, its their fault.

They sound like bitches of customers. Try not to lose sleep over it love :)
 
there was a problem with multi finish keying a few years back. get the bg rep out and take some of the multi to an analyst.
sand and cement is not a recommended backing for multi as it is mixed to your sepc. not british gypsums.
 
barryed said:
What is the contractor asking you to do about it now exactly?
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He has'nt said in so many words but probably reskim at my cost whatever has to be reskimmed, thinking he will have a chance of then getting his money from the client. My problem is that it is a small area that we are all from, and i have just started plastering a new build on monday past, and the last thing i need is him or the client spreading crap about this matter. Work and money are hard enough to come by without this hassle
 
could it have been not letting the sand and cement cure and shrink back properly i.e not leaving it long enough, i think we coverd this a few weeks ago
 
Was the well water clean mate was it ? about 3 years ago i did 4 large barn conversions and the only source of water was gravity fed from a well never had any problems with shelling or setting times.

How can the contractor wait 5 years for 25k must be mega flush. Or mad.
 
jrplastering said:
could it have been not letting the sand and cement cure and shrink back properly i.e not leaving it long enough, i think we coverd this a few weeks ago
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Don't think so jr, as i say i have used this method from i started plastering at 16 yrs and i am now 49 and this is the only time it has ever happened. I still think it was the well water. I mean not trying to be smart or anything, but if you do a small extension or a couple of walls for example maybe 1 days floating, do you go away for a week or whatever before you come back to skim it, i know you don't skim the next day or when the floating is green, but you can tell when it is ready
 
Airborne said:
Was the well water clean mate was it ? about 3 years ago i did 4 large barn conversions and the only source of water was gravity fed from a well never had any problems with shelling or setting times.

How can the contractor wait 5 years for 25k must be mega flush. Or mad.
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As i stated earlier, the water was grey, murky with an odour from it, the well was only newly sunk it was going to be the only source of water for the new house when the house was finished, the well would be connected to the house as the main water supply. They told us to use away at it as that was all there would be. The well is of course now fully treated and usable, but as for back then it is my word against theirs. As for the contractor he has been chasing his money for 5 yrs or so he says,
 
hargun said:
Don't think so jr, as i say i have used this method from i started plastering at 16 yrs and i am now 49 and this is the only time it has ever happened. I still think it was the well water. I mean not trying to be smart or anything, but if you do a small extension or a couple of walls for example maybe 1 days floating, do you go away for a week or whatever before you come back to skim it, i know you don't skim the next day or when the floating is green, but you can tell when it is ready
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smaller jobs like that i would float out in hardwall or the likes then turn back and skim the same day:RpS_thumbup:
 
Hes holding back £25k because of the SKIMMING?

How big is the fookin house?

He's trying it on. Tell the owner to feck off.
 
hargun said:
we would have floated with mortar for maybe 2-3 days, then dropped back after this time skimmed what rooms we had floated, then started the process again
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Two to three days isn't long enough to be sure it's shrunk/cured as needed.

hargun said:
Don't think so jr, as i say i have used this method from i started plastering at 16 yrs and i am now 49 and this is the only time it has ever happened. I still think it was the well water. I mean not trying to be smart or anything, but if you do a small extension or a couple of walls for example maybe 1 days floating, do you go away for a week or whatever before you come back to skim it, i know you don't skim the next day or when the floating is green, but you can tell when it is ready
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You say it's never happened before but are you sure? I seen many examples of the finish appearing to have shelled many years after application when in truth it had done so within days but just not shown up.

hargun said:
As i stated earlier, the water was grey, murky with an odour from it, the well was only newly sunk it was going to be the only source of water for the new house when the house was finished, the well would be connected to the house as the main water supply. They told us to use away at it as that was all there would be. The well is of course now fully treated and usable, but as for back then it is my word against theirs. As for the contractor he has been chasing his money for 5 yrs or so he says,
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I've been in similar positions with water supply a few times and I just fill up some empty waterproofer drums with water at home and take them to site. This is obviously only doable when skimming, if I had doubts about the water supply for my S&C work I'd either get them to sort it or walk.
 
jrplastering said:
smaller jobs like that i would float out in hardwall or the likes then turn back and skim the same day:RpS_thumbup:
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Agree mabe for a couple of walls hardwall would suffice, but a small extension say a utility or bathroom most contractors or firms prefer a more robust background like sand and cement. But listen that's besides the point, was just wondering had anybody ever suffered problems with skim through using well water or water that was in some way contaminated
 
This might be wrong which if it is somebody please correct me

Gypsum obviously only approve of clean water in there product, so if as you say the water from the well was somehow contaminated with something if the finish was tested would that not then contain the chemicals or whatever was in this water that you were instructed to use. Proving then as you said that the water you were instructed to use was not dutiable for purpose
 
hargun said:
Agree mabe for a couple of walls hardwall would suffice, but a small extension say a utility or bathroom most contractors or firms prefer a more robust background like sand and cement. But listen that's besides the point, was just wondering had anybody ever suffered problems with skim through using well water or water that was in some way contaminated
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It is an odd one and Andy is right in saying ,walking away as an option,lesson learned but they have shared culpability too as in the builders and owners..
 
barryed said:
This might be wrong which if it is somebody please correct me

Gypsum obviously only approve of clean water in there product, so if as you say the water from the well was somehow contaminated with something if the finish was tested would that not then contain the chemicals or whatever was in this water that you were instructed to use. Proving then as you said that the water you were instructed to use was not dutiable for purpose
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The sad bit is plasterers have responsibilities as trades people, we cannot say he told me to do it wrong, we will be accountable with the builder, the percentage rate of fault is the query here...
 
I would be pretty sure this problem has'nt occurred before as all my work is within a 20 mile radius, word would soon have spread and i would have bumped into practically everyone i have done work for at some stage down thru time and have never had any complaints.
We done the outside first as the inside of the house was'nt ready, the contractor supplied large containers of water for the outside as the well had not yet been sunk. The well had been sunk by the time we were ready to go inside and they us told this was to be were we got our water from for the remainder of the job, no problems outside only inside. only explanation makes sense is the well water
 
johniosaif said:
The sad bit is plasterers have responsibilities as trades people, we cannot say he told me to do it wrong, we will be accountable with the builder, the percentage rate of fault is the query here...
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I agree about responsibilities and maybe i should not have started the job, but i had done all this contractors work for the previous 6 years money was no problem and work was plentiful with him. it was just when he and the client both said this was the only water supply that i felt obliged to do the work. hindsight is wonderful i suppose, but with any amount of plasterers queueing up to do the work i maybe jumped in to start to hastefully. But i still think as there was no other alternative to be had, it is was up to the contractor and client to have had the proper water for use on site
 
So why didn't you do as I would have done and taken water with you if you had doubts about the water supply?
 
hargun said:
I agree about responsibilities and maybe i should not have started the job, but i had done all this contractors work for the previous 6 years money was no problem and work was plentiful with him. it was just when he and the client both said this was the only water supply that i felt obliged to do the work. hindsight is wonderful i suppose, but with any amount of plasterers queueing up to do the work i maybe jumped in to start to hastefully. But i still think as there was no other alternative to be had, it is was up to the contractor and client to have had the proper water for use on site
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In all my quotes i always put what i will supply and water is never one of them, if they supplied you dirty water i would mention this, then tell him you will come and put it right with your own water but its going to cost x amount which you want upfront coz of the unusual circumstances, im sure if the plastering is stopping him getting £25.000 he should be fine with this arrangement, if not tell him to fuckoff :)
 
You mention that you did repairs 3-4 months afterwards: the S+C would have fully cured by then. Were those repairs done with the same well water?

5 years down the line, did the plaster shell off the areas you repaired or were they different areas?

It sounds to me as though that client has no intention of coughing up. The client is obliged to hold back paying for the float and set but if all of the other work the contractor did is sound, then he is obliged to pay for those. Technically, the works done by the contractor remain his property until payment is received. Tell him to go in there and remove all of the work he has done, because after 5 years it's obvious he's never going to see his money.
 
You can also test whether well water is responsible for the shelling (this might sound time consuming but it appears that your dispute is going to be ongoing). Find an area of wall and float half with clean water and half with dirty rain water that has been left to stand for a few days (stagnant water contains less oxygen). Wait for 3 days like you did previously and now skim half with clean water and half with stagnant water. Come back when the plaster is fully dry and conduct your tests.
 
At the end of the day the wrong water was used you he may have to take it on the chin . Talk to the builder and the client and tell them that you think it should be a shared responsibility on this as they supplied the water, and you will come back and re'do the work but for an agreed price . Learn from this and move on and remember its all very well compromising yourself to gain work but in this game your name is only as good as your last job.
 
A high clay content can also affect the drying of render and cause it to shrink more than normal. You should analyse the well water.
 
The only time i have seen skim shell off if the backing was smooth and the mix is too strong and a crack has appeared in the sand and cement to force the skim coming off,all this talk of well water may be the issue but we do use dirty water sometimes in the skim and that doesnt seem to have an effect.So maybe your devil float of the backing wasnt deep enough and the mix was too strong.
 
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