Ritmo L or Mtec200??

theclemo

Private Member
That seemed to spray ok? Did you need to put lime and plastisizer in?
Did one go with just waterproof 4-1 no lime was ok could work with it. Then did an other go with 4-1 half of Lime and waterproofer and was better to spray. We found of u don't fill the hopper up. Just the mixing zone the amps stay down. Just got lucky and find the right sand. I'll try Feb next time as I don't like waterproofer in my mix.
 

Orangemachineman

Well-Known Member
Because they are only 110v they need to draw more amps to generate the required wattage for the motor

Thinking about it Ian jones said this years ago
The 240v seems like the best option even on site which I've done many times.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
In wouldnt say 110v is underpowered at all. It all depends on the machine being used and many varying factors.

I stand by what we have stated that the M200 110v machine will outpump 240v smaller machines and the 240v Ritmo. (You can get M330's etc in 240v but they aren't the same category of machine)

We have sold well over 50 M200's within a couple of months - reviews on the machine bar a couple have been fantastic.
One thing I have always said is patience is key with machines. Many have used various machines and decided not to stick with it - other stick with it and see the benefits!

Despite people 'getting away' with using 240v on site it simply isn't always allowed and that's a fact, therefore it certainly isn't the best option. There have also been many people reporting issues of 240v machines tripping out!

For the domestic market I am confidently saying the M200 is the best machine available now and is a huge step up in technology
 

PFTwales

Well-Known Member
240v is always going to be more powerful than 110v. Thats common sense.

I dont like 110v and never have. Its a compromise.





 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
If you base the technology or performance of the machine on the voltage your looking at it incorrectly - this is what we are looking at:

Point 1:

M200 has a pumping distance of 25m and an output of 18l/min

240v Ritmo as stated on the tech sheet has an output of 14/min with a pumping distance of 20m

Point 2:

The PFT G4 Smart is a 5.5kW motor and runs at 400 RPM - output of 22l/min and a pumping distance of 50m

The M-tec M330 is a 4kW motor and runs at 197 RPM - this has the output of 24l/min and a pumping distance of up-to 50m

Therefore you will see the M330 has a lower kW motor and runs at less RPM. Yet, it can pump the same distance (I also know it will pump further) and it can also pump faster!

If you take this into consideration and base the machine performance on such aspects of 'Gear ratio' & 'Inverter technology' this is how the power and output of the M200 is on par or greater than the 240v machine.
 

claremont

Active Member
I don`t post comments on here often and don`t claim to know that much about plastering machines but have been plastering for over thirty years now so i do know a bit about how to work with most materials in the trade.

I started using mono ( by hand) cem rend made by weber and broutin, and k-rend when it first came out which is over 20 years ago now i think?

But anyway always enjoyed using these products and had a good reputation but i was getting older and wanted to make life easier for my self so decided to get into machines, First machine i bought was a three phase monojet which was a great machine but i was in for a rough time !! i had a year or so of shouting, blockages etc all my own fault!

I then bought a second hand G4 which ( in my opinion is the best machine on the market) I had cut my teeth on the monojet and found the G4 simple to use but after a few years i decided that i was only going to be ever doing 80 bags a day maximum so decided to go for a small electric machine.

The choice was simple it was Ritmo L or Mtech 200 and after seeing the hype surrounding the launch of m200 saying it was comparable to the G4 it seemed obvious which machine to go for so i bought the m200,

That is when my disappointment started , I only ever used it for mono and I had a few set up issues granted as i was used to three phase but as Ant Jones says the machine only every seemed to work when spraying very wet? I am glad he has posted on here cause the only time we could get material to our liking was on speed three and even then the spray was always intermittent (farting)

I listened to the technical guys and as said before i was told to spray a pass and wait to spray second . well i always spray two passes but found it incredibly frustrating with the 200 as was having to wait over half an hour before spraying second pass on a 40 meter gable and material was still running down the wall and i kept running out of daylight hours.

After wasting so much time, compromising my standards to suit the machines needs, and more importantly wasting lots of money i decided to stop using the m 200 and have now been using a ritmo L for the last few months which i cant speak highly enough of ! it literally is plug in and go, you can take consistency of material down as stiff as you like without it jamming( i know thats not good for rotor and stator but needs must sometimes to get job done)

I know that people are now gonna react and put comments on this thread but i felt the need to put my honest opinion on here as did Ant Jones, and just to reiterate i know how mono reacts on all substrates and when to apply next pass etc but i am not a machine technician .

Finally and sorry for the long thread, my advice would be make sure you do your homework and do site visits to see these machines in action before you purchase one.
Thanks,
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
I don`t post comments on here often and don`t claim to know that much about plastering machines but have been plastering for over thirty years now so i do know a bit about how to work with most materials in the trade.
I started using mono ( by hand) cem rend made by weber and broutin, and k-rend when it first came out which is over 20 years ago now i think?
But anyway always enjoyed using these products and had a good reputation but i was getting older and wanted to make life easier for my self so decided to get into machines, First machine i bought was a three phase monojet which was a great machine but i was in for a rough time !! i had a year or so of shouting, blockages etc all my own fault!
I then bought a second hand G4 which ( in my opinion is the best machine on the market) I had cut my teeth on the monojet and found the G4 simple to use but after a few years i decided that i was only going to be ever doing 80 bags a day maximum so decided to go for a small electric machine.
The choice was simple it was Ritmo L or Mtech 200 and after seeing the hype surrounding the launch of m200 saying it was comparable to the G4 it seemed obvious which machine to go for so i bought the m200,
That is when my disappointment started , I only ever used it for mono and I had a few set up issues granted as i was used to three phase but as Ant Jones says the machine only every seemed to work when spraying very wet? I am glad he has posted on here cause the only time we could get material to our liking was on speed three and even then the spray was always intermittent (farting)
I listened to the technical guys and as said before i was told to spray a pass and wait to spray second . well i always spray two passes but found it incredibly frustrating with the 200 as was having to wait over half an hour before spraying second pass on a 40 meter gable and material was still running down the wall and i kept running out of daylight hours.
After wasting so much time, compromising my standards to suit the machines needs, and more importantly wasting lots of money i decided to stop using the m 200 and have now been using a ritmo L for the last few months which i cant speak highly enough of ! it literally is plug in and go, you can take consistency of material down as stiff as you like without it jamming( i know thats not good for rotor and stator but needs must sometimes to get job done)
I know that people are now gonna react and put comments on this thread but i felt the need to put my honest opinion on here as did Ant Jones, and just to reiterate i know how mono reacts on all substrates and when to apply next pass etc but i am not a machine technician .
Finally and sorry for the long thread, my advice would be make sure you do your homework and do site visits to see these machines in action before you purchase one.
Thanks,

Hi Simon,

You were one of the people I refer to actually having issues. But as we showed you on a few occasions it can be done. If you remember correctly on the day you came back to see us, we also had someone in for a demonstration on the machine (he then went on to purchase it) he sprayed the material on in two passes at 18mm in thickness - something you questioned him on, which he himself answered. Not a technician.

Speed 3 will still have an output of 14-15l/min with the M200 therefore the same output to the Ritmo. We have also shown several videos and customer reviews of people spraying on speed 4 to the correct consistency as to which they like. They aren't videos done by us - they are live onsite videos done by the owner or contractor.

Again, the machine continues to sell, reviews will always come in good or bad but we are very confident with this machine and know it inside out. We also speak to our customers on a daily basis and spend time out on site with the local guys to make sure everything is going perfectly for them.

As we stated and this has happened on other machines, farting is caused through various things, air and material consistency. If this is adjusted correctly then there are no issues.

Its the same as all machines, some will adapt, some will love them, others will prefer other styles - that is the same in all aspects of the trade. This can also be seen with your love of the G4 in comparison to the monojet. Time, experience and patience is key with all machines. No matter how experienced people are using one type of machine, a different brand or different style of machine will take learning and getting used to

One thing to add, which we have learnt is that certain material such as Monoblanco are more effectively sprayed on speed 3 - this is due to the composition of the material and the water setting required.
 
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PFTwales

Well-Known Member
Theres alot to be said that the same people having trouble with 1 machine dont have any issues with alternative machines.

Just based on my own experience i dont like 110v . My experience includes years of using machines as well as selling them.

The ritmo is a simple machine to use. It does what it does which is enough for most.
A few more lts will be helpful but not at the cost of having a man standing round waiting for gear to stiffen.
 

claremont

Active Member
My opinion is from a plastering background , Yours is from a sales background.
We are all trying to earn a living, at the end of the day in a controlled environment it easy to teach but out in the real world it`s a different .
As said before by a couple of people on here you can throw all the technical data around but if the machine does not serve your purpose thats not worth a jot.
Oh and by the way i have spoken to four people who own these machines and some in the videos above are not using them any more.
As you said some machines are marmite or was that someone else?
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
My opinion is from a plastering background , Yours is from a sales background.
We are all trying to earn a living, at the end of the day in a controlled environment it easy to teach but out in the real world it`s a different .
As said before by a couple of people on here you can throw all the technical data around but if the machine does not serve your purpose thats not worth a jot.
Oh and by the way i have spoken to four people who own these machines and some in the videos above are not using them any more.
As you said some machines are marmite or was that someone else?

I haven't referred to them as Marmite lol. But I like the term

One other person who exchanged his machine - pretty much a direct swap was Jamie from Britannia. He approached us for a new machine as he wanted to tackle the domestic market. He then won some huge contracts where he required a 3 phase machine as the M200 wouldn't be suitable for the work he was doing.

I don't know of anyone else not using their machines in all honesty, I have spoken to most of our customerS already this year and they can't wait to get back on it. I agree the real world is different to controlled conditions, however, we have site experience on these machines and the videos done are also on site.

I will post some reviews from other customers over the next few days/weeks to show the contrast in views
 
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Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
Theres alot to be said that the same people having trouble with 1 machine dont have any issues with alternative machines.

Just based on my own experience i dont like 110v . My experience includes years of using machines as well as selling them.

The ritmo is a simple machine to use. It does what it does which is enough for most.
A few more lts will be helpful but not at the cost of having a man standing round waiting for gear to stiffen.

There is a lot to be said on it, some people prefer various types of machines.

We have had guys who hate the M330 but love K4 or G4. We have also had it where people hate the G4/K4 but love the M330.
 

PFTwales

Well-Known Member
Yyyeaahh thas not wat i mean
My point was more that 110v wasnt performing aswell as 240
Generaly speaking if you look over the whole thread
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
Here is another video of a customer using the M-tec M200 110v. In this video they are spraying Parex Monoblanco to an overall thickness of 18mm

Again you'll see from this, its going on at a decent rate, 20m of hose and thick (two pass application)

Majority of the time it can also be down to the way the machine has been set-up. The consistency the user has set the machine to and varying factors.

Its an learning curve for the guys on site finding the right consistency, spray nozzle size etc. Adjustment and patience is key.
There are so many factors which can affect the overall performance of the machine. No - one is asking anyone to comprise their quality!

One thing to remember about renders, as you all know from experience is having the correct mix is key. More often than not, those who mix the material very dry and try to spray in one pass find issues with cracking. Parex and other manufacturers will back this up also.

Another area which some people don't understand is the differences in materials. Parex - Weber and K-rend. They all have varying colours within their range, many of which are more popular due to ease of use etc, but, water settings between manufacturers and colours vary!

 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
I think its obvious and fair to say that there are a couple of people who haven't got to grips with their machine, one being an ex owner on here. Another used a friends machine a few times and has expressed his fair thoughts. But to oppose that, there are a huge number who are happy

I still have no doubt in saying the machine will perform to its spec and will perform to its required ability. It has been proved and we have many customers doing it daily. If there was a serious issue, Im very confident that you all know us well enough to know that we would have acted on it - but we simply don't think there is an issue.

Im happy to answer any questions and in all honesty I am pleased to see the feedback. It is something I can look into improving for these peoples requirements. Something we will be able to do.

Again, we couldn't be happier with the current reviews on the m200 and the performance of the machine. There have been many machines in the market where people didn't get to grips with them and sold them on. This is part of the machine industry and something which will always happen. It hasn't just happened with this machine, we have had people in who who purchased other manufacturers machines, sold them on and come to us for a machine. I am sure it happens the other way as well
 

vfr12

MOTORC*NT
One thing to remember about renders, as you all know from experience is having the correct mix is key. More often than not, those who mix the material very dry and try to spray in one pass find issues with cracking. Parex and other manufacturers will back this up also.

One thing to know about render , Ryan, is quality of the mix, suction and adhesion ! Actually that's 3 and you as a salesman should know that if not , do your homework. Water can affect all 3 above. Don't know what your manufacturers are telling you, but please, get back to them and ask them. The mix has to be right and this can be changed only by he plasterer, considering the background and weather conditions, NOT THE MACHINE! I think you are missing the most important point here.
Saying all that I still think the m200 is the best 110v
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
One thing to know about render , Ryan, is quality of the mix, suction and adhesion ! Actually that's 3 and you as a salesman should know that if not , do your homework. Water can affect all 3 above. Don't know what your manufacturers are telling you, but please, get back to them and ask them. The mix has to be right and this can be changed only by he plasterer, considering the background and weather conditions, NOT THE MACHINE! I think you are missing the most important point here.
Saying all that I still think the m200 is the best 110v

I completely agree and as a salesman of materials I know all about different substrates, conditions and varying factors. Water will affect all of the 3 points you raised. I also know the correct way to set the machine and the consistency of the material

When machine applying the consistency is obviously set via the machine, this is then tested by feel or sight by the plasterer - Another reason we always encourage people to use a test pipe. If its a high absorbing background you will obviously adjust the material consistency to suit this. You don't need to only spray at a certain 'wetness' for this machine to work. It can be varied, it can go wetter or drier without issues. But there is obviously a limited on what anything can do on this

The machine wont change the consistency of the material, the only way it will is if the machine hasn't been set up correctly or there are blocked filters etc.

When we have dealt directly with the manufacturers who have come to us for information on issues, we have found a common issue of people trying to mix or apply the material too dry, causing cracking or 'bullet holes' - this is what I have been referring to and trying to re-enforce why we promote 2 pass spray.
 

vfr12

MOTORC*NT
I completely agree and as a salesman of materials I know all about different substrates, conditions and varying factors. Water will affect all of the 3 points you raised. I also know the correct way to set the machine and the consistency of the material

When machine applying the consistency is obviously set via the machine, this is then tested by feel or sight by the plasterer - Another reason we always encourage people to use a test pipe. If its a high absorbing background you will obviously adjust the material consistency to suit this. You don't need to only spray at a certain 'wetness' for this machine to work. It can be varied, it can go wetter or drier without issues. But there is obviously a limited on what anything can do on this

The machine wont change the consistency of the material, the only way it will is if the machine hasn't been set up correctly or there are blocked filters etc.

When we have dealt directly with the manufacturers who have come to us for information on issues, we have found a common issue of people trying to mix or apply the material too dry, causing cracking or 'bullet holes' - this is what I have been referring to and trying to re-enforce why we promote 2 pass spray.
Bullet holes is trapped air, which is less likely when applying by hand.We all know it should be wetter when using machine, but how wet to meet the criteria on the data sheet was my point? The first thing stroke me was the speed m200 can spray. Surely too wet is not good and there is advisory for the water settings when using machine.What do you think of the fact that too much water weakens the mix? What are the manufacturers saying about it?
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
Bullet holes is trapped air, which is less likely when applying by hand.We all know it should be wetter when using machine, but how wet to meet the criteria on the data sheet was my point? The first thing stroke me was the speed m200 can spray. Surely too wet is not good and there is advisory for the water settings when using machine.What do you think of the fact that too much water weakens the mix? What are the manufacturers saying about it?

Bullet holes is also down to unmixed material - common in both hand and machine application, more in machine I agree.

The point is it doesn't need to be 'too wet' to spray with the M200. As you can see in the attached videos it will spray thicker when required but you need to simply set the machine up correctly.
On speed 4 spraying in the attached videos it meet the specification of the machine.

What I am trying to say is with 3 phase or diesel machines, due to the power of them they can push material out a lot drier, you simply wont get away with it using the smaller machines.
 

Wezly

Well-Known Member
Bullet holes is also down to unmixed material - common in both hand and machine application, more in machine I agree.

The point is it doesn't need to be 'too wet' to spray with the M200. As you can see in the attached videos it will spray thicker when required but you need to simply set the machine up correctly.
On speed 4 spraying in the attached videos it meet the specification of the machine.

What I am trying to say is with 3 phase or diesel machines, due to the power of them they can push material out a lot drier, you simply wont get away with it using the smaller machines.
You can with a ritmo though, which is what the guys who have used both machines have reported in this very thread.

All the videos you have posted show the material being sprayed much wetter than I would prefer.

Also, seeing as you mentioned it, the maximum recommended pumping distance on the ritmo L is as you say 20m, but many regularly pump further than that, Mike Atthis has even pumped at 35m with no problems.
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
You can with a ritmo though, which is what the guys who have used both machines have reported in this very thread.

All the videos you have posted show the material being sprayed much wetter than I would prefer.

Also, seeing as you mentioned it, the maximum recommended pumping distance on the ritmo L is as you say 20m, but many regularly pump further than that, Mike Atthis has even pumped at 35m with no problems.

We can also pump far further than 25m like the Ritmo, we have tested it up-to 40m, but if you see the video of Mike doing this you can also see that is very wet, it is also at ground level, someone raised a point earlier saying that ground level work is nothing, it needs to be in the air. As we then followed onto prove, you can spray the 20m on the wall with the m200 to a good consistency. The idea of these machines is to be small compact and manoeuvrable for the domestic or private market. If you want to thrash it on at the rate of knots, maximum pumping distance, I wouldn't sell the m200 to you.

There are many reports on the forum and Facebook of the Ritmo both in 110v and 240v tripping out - this could well be down to the consistency or the machine being pushed too much. I have personally been on site and we have done many demos with customers on site and they have all been very happy with the consistency. Consistency is also very hard to judge via videos as you have to take other things into account. The air flow being one. I can show you a video of the machine spraying, with the exact same consistency flow of material, when the air is adjusted it can appear wetter, due to atomisation
 

PFTwales

Well-Known Member
Why couldnt the machine expert run the material at the correct consistency.
Ant jones said it was un workable

Surely the best man for the job was there on the job
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
Why couldnt the machine expert run the material at the correct consistency.
Ant jones said it was un workable

Surely the best man for the job was there on the job

As I have mentioned, Des himself will be responding to this directly. I wasn't there so I can't comment on the situation
 

Plasterers1StopShop

Private Member
Why couldnt the machine expert run the material at the correct consistency.
Ant jones said it was un workable

Surely the best man for the job was there on the job

I do also struggle to see how Des would be 'shown' how to adjust the water to the correct setting and how he wouldn't be able to do it himself. The guy has done a number of training session for us and knows the machine very well.

In fact, Des actually taught majority of the machine dealers in the UK on how to use machines
 
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