Preparing joins in plasterboard

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billhicks

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I've had 3 plasterers do work for me all within the last year. In all 3 cases I have the same complaint with each and are beginning to wonder whether all plasterers have the same problem.

All were skimming with multi finish over sq edge boards. Once done it looked fine, however, once painted a lot of the joins between boards become visible. I know that all 3 would use mesh scrim tape over the joints but I also know that they didn't do any other "prep" work on the joins other then apply the tape.

It's as if plaster where the joints are is raised ever so slightly which makes me think that air has gotten in the gap between the boards and pushed the plaster out whilst it's drying.

Next time I get any work done I'm going to make sure that the joints between boards are filled first but what should they be filled with? Most of the joins in the boarding work will have only been a couple mm at best. How do you prepare your joins to ensure that there's no chance of them showing through once painted?
 
you cant really not put scrim up properly mate .........its possibly bad boarding or the plasters been put on too tight , i dont fill the joins before just put the scrim up or if it's a large gap i'll double up ......hope this helps
 
how do you mean about the joins anyway mate ....is the scrim showing through?
 
I know exactly what you mean i done a ceiling in my living room and i had the same problem what it is the board is slightly out on the joint if a joist is slightly lower on one side you will get this unfotunatley we dont live in a perfect world but they combat this problem on site by using tapered board but that has its draw backs as sometimes that shrinks back if its not been filled out beforehand.
 
Should be a gap 3 to 5mm between the boards to allow plaster to push through and strengthen the joint. If you mean that you can see a thin line of plaster that looks like it is sagging down the gaps may have been to wide in the boards. If you mean that where the tape is you can see a bulge then perhaps the skimming was applied too tight. Perhaps you also need to look at how you pay your plasterers, do you pay them by the metre, price or day rate. Explain to them before they start what finish you expect and pay them accordingly.
Sorry if this sounds a little nasty towards your goodself but the majority of people want to pay as little as possible and get a top quality job done, try buying a car like using this method and see what we all get!!!! As the old saying goes 'it's good to talk' specially so we all know what we are expected to do and so the other person knows what we want.
 
What GaryB is saying is correct , sounds like the join in the board was not filled prior to the scrim being put on , skimming plasterboard is about as easy as plastering gets and it should be faultless unless the studwork is bad or the plasterboarding it self is bad but any spread worth his salt should know how to get over problems like that....... but also in some cases there are plasterers and then theres poeple who just think they are plasterers and theres loads of them around.
 
What i do is when i scrim up look for any boards that kick out a bit or wonks and hollows etc: ill nip around it all with a bit of fast bonding and feather it out where it needs it before i skim.
 
sorry lads im not trying to pick but matey said the boards were square edge not tapered...............i can't get my head around it :-?
 
I thought he meant that the gap in the plaster board made the plaster bulge and was visible when finished
 
perhaps there plaster is mixed up to loose not getting good enough coats on then,more like painting it on, may be one coating ? who knows?
 
Ive noticed this a few times, me thinks the boards eventually shrink back a little more than the plaster, this takes more than the normal 4-5 day drying time. You can then see a very slight "bulge " along the joint. Not got any solutions though :-/

Tryed leaving a gap, no gap, adhesive in joint, skriming and filling joint before skimming.
 
When I read this my thoughts were same as garyb that the gap was too large. In which case i'd fill em with some bonding then scrape back and tape.
The other thought is what steve says that they been one coating. But 3 different spreads?
Hmmm.

I'd also echo what garyb says about paying peanuts and getting monkeys.
Did you go for the cheapest?
 
have bean thinking on this one as well, maybe it is the dot and dab that is causing the problem, i always dab the board rather than the wall then i know that i have got adhesive at the edge of the boards. lets say were working from left to right, say we've dabed the wall and stuck the first board plumbed it up there is nothing to say that the right hand side of that board has any adhesive at the edge it could be lets say 12" short of the edge of that board, so we dab the wall again ready for the next board, so the left hand side of the second board has adhesive at the edge, and the right hand side the dabs fall short again! and so on. Now we tape the joints and start plastering so every board has now got one good edge and one edge that tends give a little every time you put a trowel over it, that movement would cause a ridge to keep happening . what u think?
 
I paid them all whatever they asked for and I agreed to. One of them had 25 years experience in the plastering artex game. (his visible joins were actually on dot and dab, other two were on battens).

Not all joints have this problem, some are fine so it must be something that's causing it. I'm sure that it's wasn't a problem with the battening too.

I happen to have a pic of one of the problem joins BEFORE it was skimmed. It's where a cut edge butts up against a uncut edge, there is the slightest of gaps but it's really nothing.

Will post pic later. Watch this space.
 
Just a thought, i was taught to skim all taped joints first and then skim walls/ceilings as normal, thus all joints in theory have 3 coats. Does anyone apply in this way??
 
ok, here's some pics, before and after. It's very very hard to show the problem afterwards as the camera doesn't like taking a picture of a flat wall of color, thus I have had to run some filters in photoshop to show up the problem a bit more. Also, depending on your monitor they might now show up that great.

It's a little cloakroom area. Here's a pic of one of the bad joins(worst in the house actually) BEFORE skimming:

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/11/24/f_1m_56ac3a7.jpg

same join close up:

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/11/24/f_2m_fdffd98.jpg

Now here's that join after skimming then painting:

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/11/24/f_3m_bb36b66.jpg

Another visible join in the same area, I'd say this is more typical of the problem I'm describing in that the line is more linear, the above example is a bit messy:

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/11/24/f_4m_8b2623d.jpg

Both bad joins in the same shot:

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/11/24/f_5m_2210bad.jpg


This was actually work done by the best plasterer(in my opinion) of the 3 in terms of skimming
 
Might have already been asked this, but, do you know if they applied 1 coat or two? After seeing the pictures I would say that the joint is normal before skimming, it certainly has enough fixings in it.

When skimming, the ends of the plasterboard (joint) suck the water out of the plaster slightly quicker than the overall board, therefore the plaster tends to set quicker on the joints.

If one coat only is applied this tends to show the join. When a second coat is applied you can flatten the plaster more successfully, especially on the joints.

Hope this helps, Mark
 
well its a bit rough,was there light to wrk to?,its also a job you would give to a lab,but if theres a lot of it im afraid all your plasters are $hit,what did you pay a metre?,pay pennies get pi$$ poor work :eek:
 
Looks like one coat from what I can see.
Unless you're missing a small pet that has been skimmed into the wall!
Anyone think different.
 
i also think just one coat aswell maybe forgot the scrim that helps the finishing look of a join ::)
 
Might have already been asked this, but, do you know if they applied 1 coat or two? After seeing the pictures I would say that the joint is normal before skimming, it certainly has enough fixings in it.

When skimming, the ends of the plasterboard (joint) suck the water out of the plaster slightly quicker than the overall board, therefore the plaster tends to set quicker on the joints.

If one coat only is applied this tends to show the join. When a second coat is applied you can flatten the plaster more successfully, especially on the joints.

Hope this helps, Mark
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure whether it was 1 coat or 2, will try and find out
 
well its a bit rough,was there light to wrk to?,its also a job you would give to a lab,but if theres a lot of it im afraid all  your plasters are $hit,what did you pay a metre?,pay pennies get pi$$ poor work :eek:
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, I paid what I was quoted. I didn't ask for a 'cheap job' on any occasion.

Don't forget as well, I'm highlighting his only errors and making them stand out, some of the other work is very good so I don't think it's simply a case of him being a piss poor plasterer.

Also, how many of you guys get to see your work after it's been painted? As I said in my OP, these errors only really show up after paint has been applied and even then I would imagine most people wouldn't notice them as in certain lights it looks fine. You can't feel them really either.

I've only really trying to get to the bottom of it because I want to make sure the next time I get ANY plasterer to do a job that he doesn't make these mistakes.
 
Well I think you got some ideas.
I often revisit my work as a sort of Quality assurance thing.
I also ask customers to contact me if there are any concerns (and put them right for free if required) so your Plasterer may wish to hear yours.
I'm sure others on here do the same.
 
In the last picture the wall to the left of the picture i think is nothing more than a sagging joint caused by not fill the joint before skimming , the other mistake you hightlighted does not run the full width of the wall and looking at the plasterboard in the picture before it was plastered the screws have burst through the paper on the board and looks like its cause a air bubble behind the paper and made worse by the moisture of the plaster.
 
Which ever way you look at it the problem is bad workmanship, from the pictures it looks like it could almost of been tape and joined where you often find that problem after painting, but not skimming you should never see the join like that, you are just very unlucky to have had 3 bad plasterers do your work its as simple as that.
 
Which ever way you look at it the problem is bad workmanship, from the pictures it looks like it could almost of been tape and joined where you often find that problem after painting, but not skimming you should never see the join like that, you are just very unlucky to have had 3 bad plasterers do your work its as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Jesus you must have worked with some sh1t tapers then mate
 
Which ever way you look at it the problem is bad workmanship, from the pictures it looks like it could almost of been tape and joined where you often find that problem after painting, but not skimming you should never see the join like that, you are just very unlucky to have had 3 bad plasterers do your work its as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Jesus you must have worked with some sh1t tapers then mate
Click to expand...



No I have not worked with any, but I have seen some new builds that look very much like that
 
Which ever way you look at it the problem is bad workmanship, from the pictures it looks like it could almost of been tape and joined where you often find that problem after painting, but not skimming you should never see the join like that, you are just very unlucky to have had 3 bad plasterers do your work its as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Jesus you must have worked with some sh1t tapers then mate
Click to expand...



No I have not worked with any, but I have seen some new builds that look very much like that
Click to expand...
Fair do's
 
Just a thought, i was taught to skim all taped joints first and then skim walls/ceilings as normal, thus all joints in theory have 3 coats. Does anyone apply in this way??
Click to expand...
this is the way ive done it since day 1. i also give give me beads three coats
 
Just a thought, i was taught to skim all taped joints first and then skim walls/ceilings as normal, thus all joints in theory have 3 coats. Does anyone apply in this way??
Click to expand...
this is the way ive done it since day 1. i also give give me beads three coats
Click to expand...


Is this done with square edge boards though?
 
mate i think your missing the point,spreads get walls an ceilings flat,matters not if it square edge or not or tape or scrim in the end its flat ,if ya cant manage to scim boards job change springs to mind!
 
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