New Extension - Mainly Block and some brick to render

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Aidex

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Hi Everyone

Merry Christmas!

Ive done a ton of searches, read old posts, reviews (many by companies trying to sell you a product or system) and am probably more confused than when I started! So sorry if this has been asked to death but I'd be really grateful if you could please put me straight. :confused:

We are having an extension built in blockwork and then we will render the whole house (existing house is in brick with a little white painted pebbledash). Total area will be approx 160m2 (gross area) mainly blockwork. We'd like a smooth render.

Basically we don't know if to go for a a sand and cement (should they add lime?) render or a coloured (cream) acrylic render?

We have a local plasterer who is really good and a really good guy but he's told us he can only do the traditional render. He reckons it will be less than £2k for the job (not properly quoted yet but has plastered for us before and seen the house).
We haven't had quotes for the resin renders yet as we want to understand them/the different types or brands and their benefits better but we expect them to cost more.

It would be really helpful if you could advise on your thoughts/experience with the different types of render. Some guys still say they prefer sand and cement and laugh at claims that resin renders will last 20+ years, never crack, never need repainting, etc. But then other guys say that sand and cement is pretty rubbish and the resin ones are worth every penny.

Thanks again for your help! :)
 
if you render your property to comply with current rules it should be external wall insulated .
if your property is off the main road and you are on good terms with your neighbours you can take the risk. use a plasterer without a sign written vehicle.
you will need the building to have a scaffold.
i could not render the area you quote for 2k. in sand and cement and lime. which is the cheapest material to use.
where in the country is your property ?
 
malc said:
if you render your property to comply with current rules it should be external wall insulated .
if your property is off the main road and you are on good terms with your neighbours you can take the risk. use a plasterer without a sign written vehicle.
you will need the building to have a scaffold.
i could not render the area you quote for 2k. in sand and cement and lime. which is the cheapest material to use.
where in the country is your property ?
Click to expand...

Load of rubbish that about ewi.does anyone actually follow these rules?
Why use a plasterer with no sign on there van Malc?
Yes that rough price is to cheap
 
Why do you have to have ewi?
your regs on extension will state to insulate cavity when building. Nothing bout an insulated render.

You can use acrylic/silicone render onto brick and block.

Be best to hack existing off 1st. Expansion joint where old and new meet.

You can use any render to suit your budget.
sand cement cheapest.

Then you have your scratch renders at 15mm
and thincoats at 6-10mm.

Post your location and someone could pm you and visit for advice and quotes on modern renders.

2k for 160m does sound cheap though.
 
Dansouthcoast84 said:
Why do you have to have ewi?
your regs on extension will state to insulate cavity when building. Nothing bout an insulated render.

You can use acrylic/silicone render onto brick and block.

Be best to hack existing off 1st. Expansion joint where old and new meet.

You can use any render to suit your budget.
sand cement cheapest.

Then you have your scratch renders at 15mm
and thincoats at 6-10mm.

Post your location and someone could pm you and visit for advice and quotes on modern renders.

2k for 160m does sound cheap though.
Click to expand...

The regs for re render of property states to use ewi on walls if rendering more than 25% of existing dan!!!
 
malc said:
if you render your property to comply with current rules it should be external wall insulated .
if your property is off the main road and you are on good terms with your neighbours you can take the risk. use a plasterer without a sign written vehicle.
you will need the building to have a scaffold.
i could not render the area you quote for 2k. in sand and cement and lime. which is the cheapest material to use.
where in the country is your property ?
Click to expand...

whats there van got to do with it :confused:
 
bobby said:
The regs for re render of property states to use ewi on walls if rendering more than 25% of existing dan!!!
Click to expand...

Well ive never heard of that.
what if you have substantial insulation internal.

Just like a newbuild rendering in mono and sand cements?

Out of all the refurbs ive done this year not one build regs have said render must be insulated
 
Just looked it up. Says you have to upgrade your insulation whether its internal.external or cavity wall insulation.

So there are options
 
Pretty sure that all comes in if you hack off so much internal or external, you have to replace with what the newer u value regs are but I've not read anything on it in a while so it may have changed.
 
The extension will have insulation built in but the house if it is a re-render may need ewi, insulated plastering or cavity wall insulation but that is the owners responsibility not the renderers.

£2k? Not a chance! Triple it.

Get someone with a sign written van, they will be putting there name to the job and everone will know who did it if it goes tits up.

There is a job near me I saw being done in 1973 in what I remember being called Mineralite by Blue Circle. A resin with crushed Marble same as todays and as todays cost a fortune. But still on and looking good. The only problem the renderer used metal beads which corroded so the current owner has put on cement corners which look good.

If you go for resin with crushed marble it will cost nearly what your plaster has quoted just for the resin alone. I think it was £100 + vat a bucket but that was Webers, others have come on the market since.
 
Hi Guys

Thanks for all your replies.

I don't know what ewi is but building control have been a few times. We've discussed insulation,rendering etc but they've not mentioned insulated render. We've discussed cavity bat insulation, PIR insulation for floors (they recommended jablite as cheaper) and rock wool type for loft/roofs (no loft conversion). The house has had cavity wall insulation too. Existing portion of house to be rendered is approx 37.5m2 gross (but has front door with two side windows, 3 huge windows and a couple other normal size so a lot less than that needs rendered of the original).

Plasterer told us £/m2 that he generally charges but would do it for us for a little less and would be no more than £2k - but now you've got us worried! :0 He did say he could only do sand and cement and that if we wanted resin/coloured it would cost us a lot more as we'd have to get a specialist company in. He already plastered the whole of the inside of the existing house earlier this year and will be doing the extension internally too.

There will be scaffold on site - the brickie is having it put up as they go along, then the roofers need it and we will leave it there until rendered and painted (unless we can do a coloured render).

In terms of better product (we have no concerns with the plasterers skill applying the sand and cement render) which would you guys recommend - resin or sand and cement? We really like and trust the plasterer and would only consider a resin if you guys think its that much better. Is there anything you can add or paint the sand and cement with to improve it/make it more like a resin eg to make it more flexible, reduce chances of cracking or to have a longer lasting paint on it?

Thanks again!

aidex
 
Your plasterer could use a alkaline mesh in the scratch coat reducing the chance of cracking.if he uses lime in the mix this also will help.a modern render wether it's a monocouche or polymer thin coat type would cost double but you have the colour and the piece of mind(if done properly by a recommended installer) that the chance of it not failing would be guaranteed.
Ask your guy to show previous rendering jobs also as although his internal plastering might be good,rendering is a different animal!!
Where abouts are you?
Cheers
 
bobby said:
Your plasterer could use a alkaline mesh in the scratch coat reducing the chance of cracking.if he uses lime in the mix this also will help.a modern render wether it's a monocouche or polymer thin coat type would cost double but you have the colour and the piece of mind(if done properly by a recommended installer) that the chance of it not failing would be guaranteed.
Ask your guy to show previous rendering jobs also as although his internal plastering might be good,rendering is a different animal!!
Where abouts are you?
Cheers
Click to expand...

Far too many plasterers cant render :-/

If i was going to get my house rendered i would get a specialist company in rather than a plasterer out of the yellowpages....

Danny
 
Danny said:
Far too many plasterers cant render :-/

If i was going to get my house rendered i would get a specialist company in rather than a plasterer out of the yellowpages....

Danny
Click to expand...
Disagree, specialist is just a word printed on paper,my pal who is rough as a bears arse is a specialist,if you can't render,you are not a plasterer full stop, a monkey could skim
 
£2k does sound mega cheap but if you know and trust him ask if he has any previous render jobs to have a look at. S&C will obviously be cheaper material wise but as long as it's done properly you shouldn't have any worry's. A lot of bad render around of all types though so just make 100% sure you get someone good.
No experience with the modern renders myself but after seeing more of it locally I do think it has the edge aesthetically!
 
So your plasterer is doing 160m2 of render for 2k ???????? bite his hand off , and if his work is spot on , tell him when his done , he can come and work for me , i will give him all my outside work ...............
 
I have seen plasterers do plain sand and cement render. Some good, some bad. But two coats of sand and cement ruled off and rubbed up well can look spot on and a lot of private customers will go on looks alone.

It may well lack the right quality of aggregate, admixtures and reinforcing. Rendered tight up to frames and soffits with no scope for expansion. But until problems arise it can still look spot on.

Pick his brains on specs and tell us about it. £2k is probably for bare bones 2 coat sand and cement.
 
Hi Guys

Danny thanks for the welcome. You guys on this forum are on the ball...some forums you have to answer your own posts! :)

I will ask building control to confirm the insulation side of things just to avoid getting bitten in the arse later and will go check on rendering jobs done previously. Plasterer was recommended to us and then we got him in to do the inside. We then got matey afterwards and stayed in touch. It wasn't a yellow pages thing...:)

When you guys say that a good plasterer can't necessarily be good at rendering is that because of prep, mixing, etc or is there more too it? He's coming in the new year to see how the extension is going so we'll get an accurate price then.

Rigsby, is there anything I should ask for re aggregates, etc eg any brands of admixture you recommend etc?

Also, the back of the extension facing the garden is 10m wide (part 2-storey). We don't want expansion gaps on this as it won't look very nice. Is avoiding them asking for trouble or can we get away with it? About 6m is single storey with 3m long sliding doors. The remaining 4m is double storey with a 2m wide kitchen window and two French door windows with a Juliet balcony above it.

Thanks again everyone!
 
Ask him what sand he intends using. It should be rendering sand, washed plastering sand, washed sharp sand. If he mentions building sand then don't bother wasting your money.

These door openings are nothing but trouble. Slamming doors, fixings near joints and flex during high winds cause stress and stress cracks. That is why modern render system have an advantage over plain sand and cement. A bit of polymer for flex, the right aggregate factory batched, beaded perimeters and built in reinforcing mesh.

You could get advice on modern methods? Like easily available pre rends, top coats and meshes then put this to your plasterer?

dont worry about the insulation, if the house has cavity wall insulation already there will not be a problem.
 
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All renders are suitable Aidex its all down to the person applying them using the correct methods and materials for the situation, why wont you tell us what part of the country you are in?
 
lucius said:
All renders are suitable Aidex its all down to the person applying them using the correct methods and materials for the situation, why wont you tell us what part of the country you are in?
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Cause he dont want anyone from here scaring the cheap idiot away doing his rendering
 
Hey guys thanks again. Sorry...we're in Uxbridge. Meant to say it in previous post but it got sort of long and I forgot!

Church man no ones an idiot...maybe it's me that's really gotten it wrong...I'll find out in a few weeks.

Rigsby, thanks again. I'll definitely ask about the different things you mentioned. At first I'd thought the only difference between sand and cement and the resin renders was the product itself not its installation/application that's why I asked the plasterer at the beginning if he would do it. But when he said he couldn't do that I thought ok stick to normal render unless there was a really good reason not to....and so I came to see you guys just to be sure! :)
 
Aidex said:
Hey guys thanks again. Sorry...we're in Uxbridge. Meant to say it in previous post but it got sort of long and I forgot!

Church man no ones an idiot...maybe it's me that's really gotten it wrong...I'll find out in a few weeks.

Rigsby, thanks again. I'll definitely ask about the different things you mentioned. At first I'd thought the only difference between sand and cement and the resin renders was the product itself not its installation/application that's why I asked the plasterer at the beginning if he would do it. But when he said he couldn't do that I thought ok stick to normal render unless there was a really good reason not to....and so I came to see you guys just to be sure! :)
Click to expand...

I should of chosen my words better Aidex sorry , idiot was not right for this thread , i should of used the word mug sorry .
 
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