Modifying S & C Render.

Members online

Total: 302 (members: 2, guests: 300)

Share this page

Status
Not open for further replies.
U

User________removed

Private Member
Does anybody know what additional additives go into factory batched renders like your OCR, to enable it to be used as a one coat application ?

The reason i ask is im wondering if its posible to modify normal sand cement & lime ? to use as a one coat system for maybe smaller jobs like pillars reveals etc !!

Maybe SBR ! not overly clued up on this kit, have used it over the years as a slurry for bonding and had great results. Also tried it in the scratch many years ago which was disastarous, ending up with a fairly weak scratch that sucked the death out of the top coat.

So would it be posible to modify Sand cement and lime with SBR in order to create a modifyed render that could be used as a one coat application, or a 2 coat application with better properties ? ie less shrinkage..
 
Flinny am i to asume by your reply that you dont actually no the answer to what i asked ?

As well as mixing my own i also use OCR which is good however the merchants i use are nutoriously expensive and wont budge on price, hence im looking at other alternatives, so not to price myself out of work.

So if you dont know what the crack is or cant be arsed to help then no need to post, knob head comments.
 
Look you prick i was being serious im sure the price of sand then cement and then lime is equal to ocr, you can do the render in one coat if you like. Ocr is an alternative to sand and cement but can be applied in one coat, what your asking is can you make it yourself? Its been done its called OCR. Pisses me off on here sometimes when people dont get the answer they want to hear, then cry like a baby, so dont be a prick im sure you know the answer to your own question and if the ocr is more expensive quote for it ....simple.
 
Bit harsh that floony, you're supposed to be setting an example on this forum and rising above it all, not responding like your due on next week!
 
flynnyman said:
Look you prick i was being serious im sure the price of sand then cement and then lime is equal to ocr, you can do the render in one coat if you like. Ocr is an alternative to sand and cement but can be applied in one coat, what your asking is can you make it yourself? Its been done its called OCR. Pisses me off on here sometimes when people dont get the answer they want to hear, then cry like a baby, so dont be a prick im sure you know the answer to your own question and if the ocr is more expensive quote for it ....simple.
Click to expand...

No ones being a prick and certainly no ones crying like a baby.

In the last 11 years ive fought in two wars and battled against men with better morals than you, and most of them never got to go home you Maggot.

If the price of sand cement and lime was equal to OCR id be using OCR !!!
Tried quoting for OCR and dont get the jobs because the merchants wont budge on price, Because it works out dearer.
And if i knew the answer to the question in the first place i wouldnt of asked it would i.

Its a forum for asking questions, i asked one you never answered it instead was all smug about it.

Your the only one being a dick not me, set an example as a moderator, in stead of trying to be clever and get lots of likes and thank yous. If people posting questions pisses you off then may be you shouldnt be moderating.
 
Airborne said:
No ones being a prick and certainly no ones crying like a baby.

In the last 11 years ive fought in two wars and battled against men with better morals than you, and most of them never got to go home you Maggot.

If the price of sand cement and lime was equal to OCR id be using OCR !!!
Tried quoting for OCR and dont get the jobs because the merchants wont budge on price, Because it works out dearer.
And if i knew the answer to the question in the first place i wouldnt of asked it would i.

Its a forum for asking questions, i asked one you never answered it instead was all smug about it.

Your the only one being a dick not me, set an example as a moderator, in stead of trying to be clever and get lots of likes and thank yous. If people posting questions pisses you off then may be you shouldnt be moderating.
Click to expand...

LOL so youve been plastering 5 minutes then? get a new supplier its that simple, why are you only pricing for OCR? Do it in sand and cement if its cheaper and i could not give a **** how many wars youve been in it makes no odds. My original answer was use OCR if you would of mentioned you are loosing jobs coz ocr is too dear i would of said use sand and cement. if the answer is not the one your looking for dont call people knob heads then be offended when they call you a prick.and all this i thought for my country bullshit dont meen nothing, just wait for the next answer its how the forum works xxxx
 
Last edited:
flynnyman said:
LOL so youve been plastering 5 minutes then? get a new supplier its that simple, why are you only pricing for OCR? Do it in sand and cement if its cheaper and i could not give a **** how many wars youve been in it makes no odds. My original answer was use OCR if you would of mentioned you are loosing jobs coz ocr is too dear i would of said use sand and cement. if the answer is not the one your looking for dont call people knob heads then be offended when they call you a prick.and all this i thought for my country bullshit dont meen nothing, just wait for the next answer its how the forum works xxxx
Click to expand...

Flinny i was taught to spread by my Father, i then joined the army, and 10 yrs later came out in 2004 been back on the trowel since hardly 5 mins, again you got the wrong end of the stick thinking you know what the crack is.

The point behind mentioning my past was not to big myself up, but to ensure you that ive had bigger things to cry over in the past years, than worrying about a jumped up little hitler that thinks hes got a bit of power cos hes a mod. You know full well your first post was smug.

s&c is for me cheaper however i like using OCR, if i can get the same result by adding an additive which i belive i can, just dont know how then thats how ill go on.

If you cant answer my origional post then theres no need for you to keep comenting, im not here to have a pissing contest with ya. If you can tel me what i need to know then fine if not zip it im not interested.
 
Thats the point ive made in each post, your trying to make something thats already been done (OCR). if there was a way of making it out of something else, that anyone could do they wouldnt have made it, which is why i said use OCR. I wasnt being smug you read me wrong and i wasnt being a little hitler using my powers (whatever they are) i was using my experience as a plasterer. And i did answer your original question but it wasnt what you wanted to hear so carry on until someone gives you the magic formula you wish for (that was smug).
 
Last edited:
Hi mate
not a clue what's in ocr I do use ready render from sovchem it is good gear and about £8 plus vat for 25 kg bag.
 
4 sand 2 fillite 1 cement 1 lime and for the liquid use 50/50 sbr water this will go off quicker so add some cream of tartar or tartaric acid(if you can get it) to re***d it.
 
Last edited:
flynnyman said:
Thats the point ive made in each post, your trying to make something thats already been done (OCR). if there was a way of making it out of something else, that anyone could do they wouldnt have made it, which is why i said use OCR. I wasnt being smug you read me wrong and i wasnt being a little hitler using my powers (whatever they are) i was using my experience as a plasterer. And i did answer your original question but it wasnt what you wanted to hear so carry on until someone gives you the magic formula you wish for (that was smug).
Click to expand...

Right mate ill try and rephrase it a little. Im not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to get the same from s&c as i would OCR as its cheaper, the main point in my op, which seems wasnt clear, was as s/c/l is cheaper for me than OCR is it posible to modify the top coat with SBR to get similar results ?
 
Airborne said:
Right mate ill try and rephrase it a little. Im not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to get the same from s&c as i would OCR as its cheaper, the main point in my op, which seems wasnt clear, was as s/c/l is cheaper for me than OCR is it posible to modify the top coat with SBR to get similar results ?
Click to expand...

OK fair play what you payin for OCR some one might be able to get it cheaper.
 
About 9 quid odd a bag, but they chop and change depending who you get served by, having an account seems to make no odds. Or travel to the next two towns but prob wont get it any cheaper as i dont use their merchants enough.

Spoke to a bloke at cpi yesterday as their kit is suposed to be nice to use and a tad cheaper, told me i can only order a minimum of a palet at a time 40 bags, thats both g/p and mono, was getting back to me with prices but hasnt bothered his arse.
 
Airbourne 2 Flinnyman 0

Annnyywaayyyyy maaayyyyyttttt.. (airbourne) CPI euromix sell a general purpose render pre bagged that will get delivered by the pallet for about £3.75 a bag. Also Parex make a render called Parmurex for about 6.50 a bag but they say it can go on thinner so you get better coverage rate per m2
 
Defo £9ish for the OCR, and they wont budge and wont get me anything else in other than Weber, hence im refusing to use it.
Ive had quotes from parex also but they were expensive if i remember rightly.
I like the sound of CPI and the price, the bloke that never got back to me was from the Birmingham branch, ill chase him up.
Blokes locally have stopped using this particular merchants cos of the prices, at one point B&Q were cheaper on plaster but its a ball ache getting there.
 
Blones the cpi general purpose is a two coat bagged render yes ? so do you still need to add waterproofer to your gauging water for the scratch as you would s&c ? Or will it hold the top off anyway ?
 
dont try one coating with ocr renders on anything below 7.5 newton blocks though airborne cause it dont work
 
and 2 coating cpi is difficult because there is virtually no suction. never tried doing 2 passes same day but would give it a go
 
Gibbo said:
dont try one coating with ocr renders on anything below 7.5 newton blocks though airborne cause it dont work
Click to expand...
Sound mate any particular reason why ? Is it to do with the strength of the mix ?

With the CPI am i right in saying that you scratch with the High bond and top with the general purpose, or can you use the general purpose for the lot ?

Edit sorry Blones your post came up before this one.
 
Last edited:
no its the suction in the blocks i would high bond or rendaid first on lower newton blocks plus 9 quid a bag is steep
 
I agree, there used to be build centre and build base in the town (small town) build centre moved leaving build base with the monopoly, hence they take the piss.
 
i did the outside of a new church a couple of years back on new blockwork and i sprayed cpi on in one go and floated it. never cracker, finished nice and couldnt see any blocks grinning through
 
Went to the buildbase in stratford not too long ago noel, luckily we've got an account as some of the prices they were quoting were ridiculous.
 
Airborne going right back to your original post. If it's just for "small jobs, pillars and angles" as you said then don't bother messing about just use OCR or similar as you're not going to be using serious quantities anyway and a ready bagged product is the best option for other reasons as well. On more sizeable jobs stick with normal S&C as it is definitely cheaper to supply in large quantities.
 
Gibbo said:
no its the suction in the blocks i would high bond or rendaid first on lower newton blocks plus 9 quid a bag is steep
Click to expand...
Is that all blocks including clinker block such as Aglite Gary or do you just mean Thermalite and Celcon.
 
flynnyman said:
Just use OCR.
Click to expand...

nothing wrong with this answer IMO....

are you a manufacturer or a plasterer?

although I see what you are trying to do .......whoever "invented" OCR is using materials at hand.....a simple way to "kind of figure out " what they are using in the bag ......request the MSDS for the company .....in some cases this will possibly say that it "contains proprietory ingredients " along with the common ingredients.....but even with that you can kinda figure out whats in the bag.

believe me when I say ....none of it is rocket science,some dude said ...hrmm we need a one coat faster application to sell to the contractors out there ,cuz time is money ....right?

so think about it...one shot usually means shrinkage cracking, it also means slump in the application of the material

so my guess is ......you need a water retention additive ....look for a dry acrylic .....also a micro fibre ...start there.


oo oo one last thing ,while you are trying to figure it out and perfect it ......ill be using the product approved and available to me...off the shelf,rather then trying to reinvent something......then going for a pint



also note......ALL of the one coat renders/stucco's here have been dropped .......they failed over time....my opinion is .....stick with the basics
 
authenticlime said:
nothing wrong with this answer IMO....

are you a manufacturer or a plasterer?

although I see what you are trying to do .......whoever "invented" OCR is using materials at hand.....a simple way to "kind of figure out " what they are using in the bag ......request the MSDS for the company .....in some cases this will possibly say that it "contains proprietory ingredients " along with the common ingredients.....but even with that you can kinda figure out whats in the bag.

believe me when I say ....none of it is rocket science,some dude said ...hrmm we need a one coat faster application to sell to the contractors out there ,cuz time is money ....right?

so think about it...one shot usually means shrinkage cracking, it also means slump in the application of the material

so my guess is ......you need a water retention additive ....look for a dry acrylic .....also a micro fibre ...start there.


oo oo one last thing ,while you are trying to figure it out and perfect it ......ill be using the product approved and available to me...off the shelf,rather then trying to reinvent something......then going for a pint



also note......ALL of the one coat renders/stucco's here have been dropped .......they failed over time....my opinion is .....stick with the basics
Click to expand...

Im a plasterer mate, not a manufacturer.

If youd taken the time to read all the posts youd see i wasnt trying to re-invent anything, simply could i put SBR in the top coat of s&c to get something that behaved in a similar way to a bagged product.

If you want to use something off the shelf then go for a pint fill yer boots not really that interested to be honest.

Since this post started ive managed to get OCR from £9 down to £5 and CPI at £3.25. The whole point of me starting the thread was because i was getting spanked at the merchants, and was looking for another alternative.

With the help and some leads of some on here im now sorted, but cheers anyway.
 
authenticlime said:
nothing wrong with this answer IMO....

are you a manufacturer or a plasterer?

although I see what you are trying to do .......whoever "invented" OCR is using materials at hand.....a simple way to "kind of figure out " what they are using in the bag ......request the MSDS for the company .....in some cases this will possibly say that it "contains proprietory ingredients " along with the common ingredients.....but even with that you can kinda figure out whats in the bag.

believe me when I say ....none of it is rocket science,some dude said ...hrmm we need a one coat faster application to sell to the contractors out there ,cuz time is money ....right?

so think about it...one shot usually means shrinkage cracking, it also means slump in the application of the material

so my guess is ......you need a water retention additive ....look for a dry acrylic .....also a micro fibre ...start there.


oo oo one last thing ,while you are trying to figure it out and perfect it ......ill be using the product approved and available to me...off the shelf,rather then trying to reinvent something......then going for a pint



also note......ALL of the one coat renders/stucco's here have been dropped .......they failed over time....my opinion is .....stick with the basics
Click to expand...
For water retention use cellulose also aids curing
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top