lime plastering - sources of info / advice

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ksjs

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i havent used lime before but am about to embark on re-plastering my house and im looking for good information / advice on how to go about this - anyone know of any good books, websites etc?

i did a search on here and theres quite a few posts featuring lime: do any of these give a good overview (i know this is a lazy question but theres stacks to wade through)? in particular im looking for info on mixing and types of lime / their uses. Render Systems has some good info here: http://www.limerenders.com/

the house is end of 1800s stone built (granite) with lime mortar and lime plaster. this has been added to: theres now an external skin of sand and cement render which arguably makes any internal lime plastering pointless but i figure there has to be some value in making any parts that need to breathe more breathable than they currently are.

theres a variety of plasters on the internal walls:

- entirely lime plastered and in good nick
- entirely lime plastered but with paint on top (i guess this traps any moisture and makes the lime 'useless')
- damp / blown lime plaster patches that i've removed leaving a big space that needs patching
- complete walls where the lime plaster as been removed
- lime plastered walls over-skimmed with gypsum

the obsessive / compulsive in me wants to remove everything but that would be a big job and very messy not to mention probably needless i.e. the lime walls with gypsum are fine (dry and not blown) so even though they arguably should go theyre doing the job so can stay. long-term id like to remove the sand and cement render but this is another big job and would be expensive as i couldnt undertake on my own.

this is what id like to do with each of the wall finishes i mention:

- entirely lime plastered and in good nick: OVER-SKIM USING LIME FINISHING PLASTER

- entirely lime plastered but with paint on top (i guess this traps any moisture and makes the lime 'useless'): KEY / SCOUR THE PLASTER AND OVER-SKIM WITH LIME FINISH PLASTER

- damp / blown lime plaster patches that i've removed leaving a big space that needs patching: FLOAT THE PATCH USING LIME AND FINISH ENTIRE WALL WITH NEW LIME FINISH

- complete walls where the lime plaster as been removed: REPLASTER IN LIME

- lime plastered walls over-skimmed with gypsum: RE-SKIM IN GYPSUM

does that lot make sense or do i need to go away and do a lot of reading / research? or do i need to recognise that the sand and cement render changes everything and that i should simply re-plaster using sand and cement (maybe with a bit of lime thrown in to give some breathability) and be done with it?

thanks
 
I was on the phone to a builder in North Wales this morning and I asked him why they sand/cement/pebbledash all the old stone houses there instead of using lime renders like the original builders. He admitted he would prefer to do all his restorations using lime but reckoned the damp climate in Wales meant that they had to use sand/cement/waterproofer. I thought the whole point of lime was that it allowed the damp to evaporate back out through the walls ??? I still reckon they don't use lime up there because it's more expensive and time consuming and bugger all to do with damp issues. Essex County Council's historic buildings department run short lime plastering courses for builders/plasterers, so I signed up for one today.
 
RainbowThistlePlastering said:
why do you want to strip the s+c? if it's in good nick it's a bit pointless imo.
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cause most of the stuff i read / hear about renovating / maintaining old buildings suggests that s&c on stone built / lime mortar walls isnt how its supposed to be. the walls are supposed to be able to take in / release damp, moisture, rain as necessary. s&c stops this. if i ever actually did this which i doubt (if it aint broke dont fix) id re-render in lime though ive heard some bad stories about external lime render and serious weather.
 
Phil said:
I was on the phone to a builder in North Wales this morning and I asked him why they sand/cement/pebbledash all the old stone houses there instead of using lime renders like the original builders. He admitted he would prefer to do all his restorations using lime but reckoned the damp climate in Wales meant that they had to use sand/cement/waterproofer. I thought the whole point of lime was that it allowed the damp to evaporate back out through the walls ??? I still reckon they don't use lime up there because it's more expensive and time consuming and bugger all to do with damp issues. Essex County Council's historic buildings department run short lime plastering courses for builders/plasterers, so I signed up for one today.
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yep! i had exactly this thought: i live not too far from Bangor in North Wales and every house nearby is rendered in s&c - why? now, it might just come down to the fact that s&c does the job better and we live in a different way from how we used to (ie everyone wants to be perfectly warm, no draughts allowed etc) but i get the distinct feeling that stuff happens in the UK building trade because its easy / thats what people are used to. bricks and mortar dont make sense for example but everyones still throwing this type of construction up. i think its the same with s&c: cheap, easy to put on and people dont know any different.
 
Sand and cement is cheap and easy to use. With the introduction of portland cement long ago lime wasn't really used after it. Lime allows moisture to be absorbed by the wall and the evaporate rather than holding onto it.

Your call, it's your house. but do you want to f**k around with this stuff and perhaps make costly mistakes or just go for the s+c route and do a decent job. I'd say get a spread round, not to quote, just to pump him for his expertise. Pay him a days wage and get every little bit of info you can.
 
Compared to gypsum lime is bit fussy. But, its versatility and long term benefits can't be matched. If you really want to learn to fine points of lime plastering, you need to get a copy of William Millar's Plastering Plain and Decorative. Donhead publishing in the UK reprints it.
If you redo entire rooms or walls in lime you can do nice coloured finishes if you can get a hold of marble dust.
 
RainbowThistlePlastering said:
Your call, it's your house. but do you want to (french word) around with this stuff and perhaps make costly mistakes or just go for the s+c route and do a decent job.
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with the right knowledge lime allows a good job to be done, better in fact than s&c for houses of this structure: it moves and breathes. i know someone locally who has experience of lime so will try and sort out a bit of learning with him...
 
rogerhattman said:
Compared to gypsum lime is bit fussy. But, its versatility and long term benefits can't be matched. If you really want to learn to fine points of lime plastering, you need to get a copy of William Millar's Plastering Plain and Decorative. Donhead publishing in the UK reprints it.
If you redo entire rooms or walls in lime you can do nice coloured finishes if you can get a hold of marble dust.
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the book is £99! there must be books out there with the info i need at a more reasonable price - any other suggestions?
 
McPlaster said:
Baumitbyosan do a lime backing coat and lime finish, i haven't yet used them but when a lime job comes in thats where i'm buying and it seems to me ksjs your plan of works has been thought through and makes sense http://www.natural-building.co.uk/lime_plaster_render_baumit_bayousan.htm
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these sound good but not quite sure what they qualify as: hydraulic limes or what? im guessing also that they will be expensive (relatively) as theyre pre-mixed. will post back on here when i get things sorted and have some knowledge to pass on...
 
rogerhattman said:
Compared to gypsum lime is bit fussy. But, its versatility and long term benefits can't be matched. If you really want to learn to fine points of lime plastering, you need to get a copy of William Millar's Plastering Plain and Decorative. Donhead publishing in the UK reprints it.
If you redo entire rooms or walls in lime you can do nice coloured finishes if you can get a hold of marble dust.
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found this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lime-Buildi...=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264673576&sr=8-4
cant go wrong for £5
 
just out of interest does any1 have any good ideas for how to make tape and jointed and painted walls look old again without removing them?

i have an old cottage which before i moved in has had some waterproof plastic tanking type stuff put on the walls downstairs and then boarded and tape and jointed.

in a big old property before we got asked to use a mix of multi and bonding and half arse trowel it and leave it a bit lumpy with holes etc. that looked ok

but is there anything else that can be done?

cheers
 
nick0412 said:
just out of interest does any1 have any good ideas for how to make tape and jointed and painted walls look old again without removing them?

i have an old cottage which before i moved in has had some waterproof plastic tanking type stuff put on the walls downstairs and then boarded and tape and jointed.

in a big old property before we got asked to use a mix of multi and bonding and half arse trowel it and leave it a bit lumpy with holes etc. that looked ok

but is there anything else that can be done?

cheers
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use browning instead of bonding (its lighter) put it on with a gauging trowel. enjoy ;D
 
It depends on how rough a finish you want.

I once did 80m2 of browning and multi mixed 50/50 over sand and cement in a pub.
 
u no wot i mean!! :)

something that looks right in a cottage. ie not smooth and flat like a new house. not artex. but that can be done over the old boards
 
the book is £99! there must be books out there with the info i need at a more reasonable price - any other suggestions?

Actually, considering the value of information in there, the book is quite cheap. You might also consider The Modern Plasterer by Verrall or plastering by JT Sawyer. Millar is rather technical while the others are easier for a beginner. But no source compares to Millar.
 
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