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When you say a profile, what do you mean? By gravimetric or wme?
Do you mean profile by gravimetric or wme ?
irish_spread
Private Member
Sorry skimmy matey, you're not the 1st rising damper to come on here.. I regularly treat dampness and for the past 25 yrs have have no comebacks.
Im going to give you the answer to your, I have to say stupid question, once and once only.
THE DAMPNESS DOES NOT RISE THROUGH THE BRICKS, IT CAN RISE THROUGH A PLASTER LIKE BONDING, BROWNING ETC.
IF IT WAS RISING (lol) THROUGH AN OUTSIDE BRICK SKIN AND JUMPING INTO THE INTERNAL SKIN...... Houdini lol
Basic stuff mate, good night x
You have never seen a bridged cavity causing rising damp? I have lol
irish_spread
Private Member
causing dampness yes, rising damp in the brickwork ....? I'm selling some jack and the beanstalk beans for £200 if ur interested
The dampness doesn't rise through the bricks.....i laughed so hard I pissed myself! Do you know the pore size of a brick? Im not talking of an engineering brick.... So it can rise through bonding but not a brick lmfao
adapt
Active Member
I cannot afford to spend £700+ on a calcium carbide meter so I have to just use my good old fashioned eye balls.
You big money guys can afford all the toys, thermal imagining etc. but when your not getting a helping hand and a mortgage to pay I just cannot warrant spending my money on stuff that is more about building forensics. I need a new van at some point so I have other priorities.
Maybe I need to get my arse down to the lodge and then I might be able to have a fancy uniform and all the toys ?
You big money guys can afford all the toys, thermal imagining etc. but when your not getting a helping hand and a mortgage to pay I just cannot warrant spending my money on stuff that is more about building forensics. I need a new van at some point so I have other priorities.
Maybe I need to get my arse down to the lodge and then I might be able to have a fancy uniform and all the toys ?
irish_spread
Private Member
It seems reading isn't one of your strong points. Dampness DOESNT rise in ANY skin of brickwork. I hope you understand it better now
Rising damp doesn't occur from an internal bridged cavity then if its built with bricks?
Rising damp in a brick for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGlRDZo2_Eo
So what wme do you use for rising damp?
The calcium carbide, it measures only the moisture content of material introduced inside.
adapt
Active Member
Skimmy the properties I tend to look at that suffer from rising damp are mostly random stone or solid brick with no physical DPC, even a trained chimp can spot that and they seem to be doing very well at it where I am, I just have far too many morals, this means I cannot resort to the snake oil tactics that some get upto.
I come across have a go builders now on a regular basis and they are even giving out product guarantees from the chemical suppliers.
Personally I still enjoy the work sad I know but for me my future business model will probably be more building and less remedial's as there are far too many builders now doing it for silly money.
One of the main reasons why I think the industry is not changing for the better.
Look at safe guard now, doing these DPC sticks, you don't really think its because its handy do you ? no its because any fool can drill a hole and stick in a DPC stick. With the pump you still had an element of skill.
I am a firm believer in dealing with the problems and not the symptoms of a property, but there does come a time when you do honestly wonder why you bother, it certainly has not got me anywhere but the cowboys are off on holiday on a regular basis and new vans, fancy uniforms and full of **** really does seem to work as a business model, even if you don't have a clue how to do the jobs correctly.
Sorry to vent but honesty don't pay the bills guys :RpS_crying:
I come across have a go builders now on a regular basis and they are even giving out product guarantees from the chemical suppliers.
Personally I still enjoy the work sad I know but for me my future business model will probably be more building and less remedial's as there are far too many builders now doing it for silly money.
One of the main reasons why I think the industry is not changing for the better.
Look at safe guard now, doing these DPC sticks, you don't really think its because its handy do you ? no its because any fool can drill a hole and stick in a DPC stick. With the pump you still had an element of skill.
I am a firm believer in dealing with the problems and not the symptoms of a property, but there does come a time when you do honestly wonder why you bother, it certainly has not got me anywhere but the cowboys are off on holiday on a regular basis and new vans, fancy uniforms and full of **** really does seem to work as a business model, even if you don't have a clue how to do the jobs correctly.
Sorry to vent but honesty don't pay the bills guys :RpS_crying:
irish_spread
Private Member
Look, I'll try and make this a bit simpler for you, if that's possible
if the ground outside the house ( eg where the garden is :RpS_biggrin
is higher than the floor inside the house (eg where the TV is :RpS_biggrin the outside water can penetrate through the wall into the internal plaster which can appear wet (damp), especially with gypsum undercoat plasters.The same can be the case with a bridged cavity.
Now I think this appears the bit you're struggling with- this is called penetrating damp.
Your YouTube video of a brick is very amusing but proves nothing. I'm glad you like it. Many proper laboratory studies where they have placed different types of bricks standing in pools of water for up to 3 yrs prove rising damp is nonsense . Safegaurd etc, surprisingly disagree lol.
For the past 20+ years I have been treating what has been diagnosed as 'rising' lol damp without using a physical/ chemical dpc and have never had a failure. 500+ jobs! how do you explain that then ?
I don't have an electrical conductivity meter because I don't need one, common sense is all you need.
Remember my friend, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing :RpS_thumbup:
EXACTLY, ITS TOTAL MOISTURE CONTENT.
That is hygroscopic salt and free moisture, so its a waste of time on site and proves nothing.
Look, I'll try and make this a bit simpler for you, if that's possible
if the ground outside the house ( eg where the garden is :RpS_biggrin
The same can be the case with a bridged cavity.
Now I think this appears the bit you're struggling with- this is called penetrating damp.
Your YouTube video of a brick is very amusing but proves nothing. I'm glad you like it. Many proper laboratory studies where they have placed different types of bricks standing in pools of water for up to 3 yrs prove rising damp is nonsense . Safegaurd etc, surprisingly disagree lol.
For the past 20+ years I have been treating what has been diagnosed as 'rising' lol damp without using a physical/ chemical dpc and have never had a failure. 500+ jobs! how do you explain that then ?
I don't have an electrical conductivity meter because I don't need one, common sense is all you need.
Remember my friend, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing :RpS_thumbup:
Why would you need an electrical conductivity meter if you don't believe in rising damp lol
Why do you get a salt band at the height of rise then, if there is no such thing as rising damp?
Many laboratory studies!!!! Bre Digest 245 is used in court to prove if there is a damp or rising damp problem.
I do agree though that most problems are not genuine rising damp and people do hype it up and do unnecessary work, but rising damp exists
irish_spread
Private Member
Why would you need an electrical conductivity meter if you don't believe in rising damp lol
Why do you get a salt band at the height of rise then, if there is no such thing as rising damp?
Many laboratory studies!!!! Bre Digest 245 is used in court to prove if there is a damp or rising damp problem.
I do agree though that most problems are not genuine rising damp and people do hype it up and do unnecessary work, but rising damp exists
Ok, I'm not wasting any more of my time educating you about this.
1. Stupid question of the year nomination this one. Erm I haven't got an electrical conductivity meter because I know there is no such thing as rising damp
2. Salt band. This is caused salts coming to the surface of the plaster. Efflorescence. If you apply a salt neutraliser to the wall after hacking off and apply a s/c render using sovereign rendermix for example (contains a salt neutraliser) this should cure your salts. If you have identified the cause of the (normally) penetrating damp and treated it you will solve your damp problem, no snake oil required . It's the plaster, normally gypsum, this affects.
3. People going to court over 'rising', spit, lol damp. and BRE 245 used by who to prove rising damp ?:RpS_laugh: <= please don't answer this
4. I looked into your previous posts and I see your dad was an architect. If my dad was a doctor would you like me to do your heart bypass surgery ?. Putting it another way, if he specialised in neurosurgery, would you like him to do your hip replacement ?
Im bored by this now, I hope you have learned something :RpS_unsure:
adapt
Active Member
Skimmy I am a firm believer in rising damp mainly because I see it on a regular basis, but what I am seeing is due to older building design.
The older properties were built with older method's so this is why we see capillary action causing the problem, basically the walls acting like a sponge and drawing up the moisture.
The properties I mostly see this in are random stone with lime/sand mortar beds and solid brick walls without a cavity.
Properties with a cavity would only really have an issue if there is no physical DPM or bridging due to snots.
I have seen very little problems in cavity houses and yet to inject one.
Last one I looked at I took of the window sill and found mortar bridging. I did inspect on once with no airbricks and the dampness was down to interstitial condensation.
I tend to first look at the construction of a building first before I even step inside the door.
I know people who get really engrossed with building forensics but I aint getting paid for that, that's a chartered building surveyors job and they are earning £650+ for their surveys not £120 like I do.
The properties construction is the best way to figure out problems, but the trouble is not everyone uses common sense when running a business, some see a one solution fixes all, i.e. DPC injection.
The older properties were built with older method's so this is why we see capillary action causing the problem, basically the walls acting like a sponge and drawing up the moisture.
The properties I mostly see this in are random stone with lime/sand mortar beds and solid brick walls without a cavity.
Properties with a cavity would only really have an issue if there is no physical DPM or bridging due to snots.
I have seen very little problems in cavity houses and yet to inject one.
Last one I looked at I took of the window sill and found mortar bridging. I did inspect on once with no airbricks and the dampness was down to interstitial condensation.
I tend to first look at the construction of a building first before I even step inside the door.
I know people who get really engrossed with building forensics but I aint getting paid for that, that's a chartered building surveyors job and they are earning £650+ for their surveys not £120 like I do.
The properties construction is the best way to figure out problems, but the trouble is not everyone uses common sense when running a business, some see a one solution fixes all, i.e. DPC injection.
You certainly show that you don't understand the distribution of salts which are left at the height of rise. Nitrates and chlorides distributed in a salt band at for example 1m, none above and none below, these are hygroscopic! How did they get there if there is no such thing as rising damp? These are the salts associated with rising damp, if you have a long term rising damp problem you will find there will always be chlorides and possibly nitrates.
Court cases are built on FACT, it's called CPR 35 and it has to be compliant! Do you actually think you could stand in front of a judge and say that rising damp doesn't exist and that you have no data to prove it LOL. BRE Digest 245 is used by courts, Rics surveyors, Chartered surveyors, and damp consultants.
As for my dad being an architect, I don't design houses.........................
Im bored with you now 2, I hope you have learned something :RpS_thumbup:
I see it on a regular basis 2, a local authority had a terrace of houses (3) with a suspended floors that had a nasty dry rot outbreak. Anyway the floors were removed dry rot treated and they replaced the floors with concrete and insulation...... they then all got rising damp lol The dynamics of the house had changed and there was no evaporation and the damp was pushed up the walls.
I agree about cavity construction, I hardly see a problem either and if it is its always bridging!
At least you charge for your surveys, when you go and there is no real rising damp problem at least you haven't wasted your time.
Irish Spread read this.......you may understand after reading this about rising damp and salts, and also why Bre digest 245 is used
Sampling for Moisture and Soluble Salt 'Profiles'
Sampling for Moisture and Soluble Salt 'Profiles'
adapt
Active Member
Tony I think the injection is good for certain properties but not a one job fix all approach, I have seen people inject walls and the problem is condensation.
Its all about taking your time when your looking at the job and making the right diagnosis, skimmy seems to have a good grasp of it, salts etc and the movement of moisture.
When your doing it for a living you do become a bit sad like me and you end up trying to find out exactly what the problem is and I always give an honest and unbiased view.
I do put a lot of blame on the chemical companies for letting people become "installers" without any real experience apart from a 8 hour sales seminal at some hotel function room.
It takes years to learn it and understand what defects cause the symptoms you are seeing.
Spread is exactly right in what he says about the cavities causing ingress and I am sure we have all came across issues like that, and I have seen cavity fill causing problems too.
A cavity is only as good as the guys who have built it, I have seen timber and allsorts or crap thrown down them.
Solid walls usually are the main culprit and the type of construction.
This is a great discussion for anyone thinking of getting into the industry as its not as simple as filling a wall with siloxane and hoping for the best.
Its all about taking your time when your looking at the job and making the right diagnosis, skimmy seems to have a good grasp of it, salts etc and the movement of moisture.
When your doing it for a living you do become a bit sad like me and you end up trying to find out exactly what the problem is and I always give an honest and unbiased view.
I do put a lot of blame on the chemical companies for letting people become "installers" without any real experience apart from a 8 hour sales seminal at some hotel function room.
It takes years to learn it and understand what defects cause the symptoms you are seeing.
Spread is exactly right in what he says about the cavities causing ingress and I am sure we have all came across issues like that, and I have seen cavity fill causing problems too.
A cavity is only as good as the guys who have built it, I have seen timber and allsorts or crap thrown down them.
Solid walls usually are the main culprit and the type of construction.
This is a great discussion for anyone thinking of getting into the industry as its not as simple as filling a wall with siloxane and hoping for the best.
irish_spread
Private Member
Your copy and paste looks very similar to the Safeguard PDF. guide to rising damp. I have read this and took it on board. When I get a rising lol damp call to quote, I ALWAYS tell the customer I will inject using Dryzone for an extra £500 if they any but they are wasting their money, but being a n honest sole trader most people believe me and don't waste their money.
16 years ago, Abbey National ( now Santander) surveyor found 'rising damp' lol in one of their future mortgagees properties. The buyer challenged this and said he wasn't prepared to suffer the £1000 retention, subject to their moisture meter men.
After the statutory 1 yr retention period at the time, the case was set to go to court.
The customer was me, I rejected their surveyors claim of rising lo damp based on the fact that I used to solve their remedial damp problems . They eventually wrote off the retention , apologised and gave me £100 towards that mortgage :RpS_thumbup:
My mate in Riverdene rd, ilford Essex had a mortgage co surveyor telling him he had rising damp while both of them were looking at the river Roding over spilled into his garden
Have you noticed lately that NO SURVEYORS EVER MENTION RISING DAMP nowadays in their surveys, I wonder why ?
how old are you by the way ?
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And you'll see plenty more in the not too distant future. They've been throwing insulation down them here as past of an ill advised subsidised boom. Sold by badger hairstyled doorsteppers to unsuspecting mugs. :RpS_mad:.If you want to see how a cavity is bridged, look no further
Its not a copy and paste, this is the basics of any damp diagnosis that was taught to me years ago, SALTS!
Did you read the below link?
Sampling for Moisture and Soluble Salt 'Profiles'
This is what is taught as a basic of understanding of dampness and salt distribution, I hope this helps!
No I haven't noticed that about surveyors, I have found that I have had more enquiries than ever mentioning diagnosis of the rising damp problem. Its part of their survey to mention if there is a damp problem and they have a standard paragraph for this.
When you say it's **** , what do you mean?
irish_spread
Private Member
TonyM
Private Member
As in it doesn't work. I was told that it takes up to 6 months for all the silicon **** to join up and form a seal. How is it supposed to impregnate granite. Utter bullshit
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