Fortress in Kent requires Monocouche advice

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warriorupnorth said:
Ok that clears up a lot , I think Keithuk does quite a bit of lime work and he's close to you , might be worth giving him a shout, no doubts he'll be along shortly though, would love to have a look my self , but it wouldn't be cost effecrive, so good luck with it and keep us posted
best regards
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Thanks for the mention ,but mainly mono for me .I do know the property well as i do alot of work down that way for some strange reason ,we do a house then someone else wants theirs done .
 
mark ross said:
Hi Martello,

We have over 15 years experience using lime mortars for both plastering and rendering.

Have completed many projects across the South East of England, including such places as Batemans, Groombridge Place,Knowle and theNational portrait Gallery just to name a few.

I will Pm you our details with regards to meeting ,tendering and possibly undertaking this project for you.

Lime plastering,lime rendering, wattle and daub .wmv - YouTube

Mark
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15 years experience... is that all young lad.....
 
Render Systems said:
as i said i will price it no problems but will have to be done before november for the weather contact me here Contact us with your email address

Heres a couple i have done



This one won best renovated house for the barbados national trust
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Which ones flynny?
 
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I love your vids Render System, I wish more people did them and when people posted them up they didnt get slagged off
 
Render Systems said:
cant seem to do that
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Guys - to all of you thanks for the advice - my mobile number is 07851395248 for anyone interested in quoting for the job. I am happy to remove existing render - I know this is the bit you guys hate!! PS - to clear up the confusion as some of you seem to think MONOCOUCHE is not accepted by English Heritage. It is recommended - in fact it's the only product they will let you use.
 
mark ross said:
Hi Martello,

We have over 15 years experience using lime mortars for both plastering and rendering.

Have completed many projects across the South East of England, including such places as Batemans, Groombridge Place,Knowle and theNational portrait Gallery just to name a few.

I will Pm you our details with regards to meeting ,tendering and possibly undertaking this project for you.

Lime plastering,lime rendering, wattle and daub .wmv - YouTube

Mark
Click to expand...


Hi Mark - call me on 07851395248 should you still be interested - thanks
 
Martello23 said:
English Heritage have recommended Parex Hydraulic Lime. Yes it is Listed and also an Ancient Monument.
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is that your parex moyen and clair they have stipulated with a sealer? its hl 3.5 lime with no cement so rendersystems was somewhere near right.
its a good product weve used it on a number of listed buildings
 
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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by warriorupnorth
Just a quickie, What do English Heritage have to say on the matter ?, is it listed ? are there any local authority issues ?

Martello23 said:
Oddly enough English Heritage/Listed Building are not interested. I have been in and out of court many times on this project for many reasons but could paint the tower purple and they don't care - very strange!!!
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For what Martello to say to be correct would mean that English Heritage are in breach of their own guidance. The law on listed buildings is one of strict liability.. that is there is no excuse for breaking it. You have to plead guilty and then ask for the mercy of the court.
Painting the building purple, as per example, needs listed building consent because it alters the character of an historic building, especially a fortress. As would changing from cement render to lime render ( even though this is desirable) as would removing cement render. The manner in which cement render is removed dramatically affects the damage to the building... it all needs consent.

Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979.All works to these sites (not just alterations) require scheduled monument consent (SMC). It is a criminal offence to damage a scheduled monument either deliberately, recklessly or by carrying out work without the appropriate consent and transgressing this law can lead to a criminal conviction and a fine. Only sites of ‘national importance' may be scheduled, and then only if scheduling is considered to be the best means of protecting them. ​
 
Martello23 said:
Guys - to all of you thanks for the advice - my mobile number is 07851395248 for anyone interested in quoting for the job. I am happy to remove existing render - I know this is the bit you guys hate!! PS - to clear up the confusion as some of you seem to think MONOCOUCHE is not accepted by English Heritage. It is recommended - in fact it's the only product they will let you use.
Click to expand...



This sort of statement only adds to the confusion.

The ideal material assuming it functioned in a durable manner is a like for like replacement of what was originally used. If monocouche meets that criteria then no problem if it doesn't then a potential problem. In fact very often a sample of the original is taken with a view to creating a mix that replicates the original. This gives the appropriate respect for the ancient craftsman.

The idea that there is only one product they will let you use is incorrect. It might be acceptable for this job. The overriding planning principle is that each application is treated on its merits. If you can convince your local planning committee to ignore officer advice and plaster your building with custard cream- then custard cream it is. Even if they refuse you, for example to place a 15 foot replica shark half in and half out of your roof you can still appeal and win as in Oxford. . There are no hard and fast rules. That's the beauty and difficulty of planning law.
 
sliemasteve said:
This sort of statement only adds to the confusion.

The ideal material assuming it functioned in a durable manner is a like for like replacement of what was originally used. If monocouche meets that criteria then no problem if it doesn't then a potential problem. In fact very often a sample of the original is taken with a view to creating a mix that replicates the original. This gives the appropriate respect for the ancient craftsman.

The idea that there is only one product they will let you use is incorrect. It might be acceptable for this job. The overriding planning principle is that each application is treated on its merits. If you can convince your local planning committee to ignore officer advice and plaster your building with custard cream- then custard cream it is. Even if they refuse you, for example to place a 15 foot replica shark half in and half out of your roof you can still appeal and win as in Oxford. . There are no hard and fast rules. That's the beauty and difficulty of planning law.
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Seek medical attention Beardo.
 
sliemasteve said:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by warriorupnorth
Just a quickie, What do English Heritage have to say on the matter ?, is it listed ? are there any local authority issues ?



For what Martello to say to be correct would mean that English Heritage are in breach of their own guidance. The law on listed buildings is one of strict liability.. that is there is no excuse for breaking it. You have to plead guilty and then ask for the mercy of the court.
Painting the building purple, as per example, needs listed building consent because it alters the character of an historic building, especially a fortress. As would changing from cement render to lime render ( even though this is desirable) as would removing cement render. The manner in which cement render is removed dramatically affects the damage to the building... it all needs consent.

Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979.All works to these sites (not just alterations) require scheduled monument consent (SMC). It is a criminal offence to damage a scheduled monument either deliberately, recklessly or by carrying out work without the appropriate consent and transgressing this law can lead to a criminal conviction and a fine. Only sites of ‘national importance' may be scheduled, and then only if scheduling is considered to be the best means of protecting them. ​
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I can assure you Steve I have a lot more experience than you of English Heritage and their laws/guidelines. I have been in the High Court twice for being in breach of these! Very briefly it took over 5 years to get permission to even live in the tower. During this time I broke a few of their 'laws'. I now give advice to potential converters of Ancient Monuments and my Tower is now considered the best example of a converted one. So to sum up I required permission to hammer a nail into the wall or remove one brick, BUT I can paint it any colour I like - yes very odd I know but I have it in writing.

NOTE - I DO NOT INTEND TO PAINT IT PURPLE etc - It was just an example of how strange the rulles and regulations are
 
Martello23 said:
I can assure you Steve I have a lot more experience than you of English Heritage and their laws/guidelines. I have been in the High Court twice for being in breach of these! Very briefly it took over 5 years to get permission to even live in the tower. During this time I broke a few of their 'laws'. I now give advice to potential converters of Ancient Monuments and my Tower is now considered the best example of a converted one. So to sum up I required permission to hammer a nail into the wall or remove one brick, BUT I can paint it any colour I like - yes very odd I know but I have it in writing.

Thank you for your reply. Your comments in black my response beneath.

I can assure you Steve I have a lot more experience than you of English Heritage and their laws/guidelines.

You have the power of telepathy as well? How do you know the full extent of my experiences with the UK planning and heritage system over the last thirty years?

I have been in the High Court twice for being in breach of these!

I have given evidence as a witness at the Lands Tribunal ( a division of the High Court) and in several other court cases as a witness. Most people regard being in court for being in breach of the law as a failure rather than something to add to their cv. What you are saying is that you lack the ability to work with the authorities which results in the expense of high court proceedings. I am 100% in favour and support you fighting the system but against you breaking the law.


Very briefly it took over 5 years to get permission to even live in the tower. During this time I broke a few of their 'laws'.

Not their laws, our law. In any event the law is that you get permission and generally it is down to your ability to persuade the authorities that what you want is within the spirit of the guidance. Why should the rest of us bother to obey the law when there are people like you who glorify the breaking of it. That there are obnoxious planning officers who go out of their way to be obstructive I accept. But they have 8 weeks to decide, you can then appeal so it only stretches to 5 years when you tolerate it or don’t have the skill to deal with them. If you are getting shitty treatment go to appeal and your decision is likely within months or a year.


I now give advice to potential converters of Ancient Monuments and my Tower is now considered the best example of a converted one.

Whether this is good or bad depends on the advice. From what you have written so far the courts are going to be busy.


So to sum up I required permission to hammer a nail into the wall or remove one brick,

Technically yes but English Heritage inspectors wouldn’t take you to court for a minor infringement. I know I have been there.


BUT I can paint it any colour I like - yes very odd I know but I have it in writing.

This is the sort of bollux that gets written on this web site and people go away thinking its not necessary to get permission. What you write is confusing drivel. You might have a letter that deals with a specific point – but it is only half the story. As a listed building it needs listed building consent if it changes the character. If you live in a listed building that is already painted you can repaint it the same colour or a shade that is similar without a listed building consent application. If you want to paint it a very different colour for example change from white to purple you need consent.

NOTE - I DO NOT INTEND TO PAINT IT PURPLE etc
Yeah I gathered that purple was an example.

- It was just an example of how strange the rulles and regulations are.

Not really you are confused. The law is mostly, only specific in respect of the hoops you have to jump through for example submitting a planning application , listed building consent, conservation area consent application or scheduled monument consent . You do this to be within the law. Beyond making an application there are no rock solid rules or regulations as you suggest; it is all guidance. The issues you raise relate to how guidance is interpreted not rules or regulations. The strangeness you refer to is the strength of the system; no situation is exactly identical to another. This results in neighbouring dwellings getting different decisions or very different situations getting the same treatment.

Painting falls under the umbrella of a listed building consent submission. It is impossible to have an approval that allows you to paint any colour. The reason is simple every application has to be treated on its merits the merit can only be determined by knowing the colour. In respect of painting any colour you want, you are only giving us part of the story. Provide us with the full context and it will be thrown into a new light.
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Bloody hell... have i got the job or what? Martello? you tell me what you want on the walls give me a manufactures specification to work to, and whoever elses you require and lets get started...
 
Small world again ,got to price another one up in Greatstone tomorrow always drive past yours , nice to see the youtube pics what you done looks nice ,best of luck
 
Render Systems said:
Bloody hell... have i got the job or what? Martello? you tell me what you want on the walls give me a manufactures specification to work to, and whoever elses you require and lets get started...
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looks like trouble to me, i shall advoid this one.
 
sliemasteve said:
Martello23 said:
I can assure you Steve I have a lot more experience than you of English Heritage and their laws/guidelines. I have been in the High Court twice for being in breach of these! Very briefly it took over 5 years to get permission to even live in the tower. During this time I broke a few of their 'laws'. I now give advice to potential converters of Ancient Monuments and my Tower is now considered the best example of a converted one. So to sum up I required permission to hammer a nail into the wall or remove one brick, BUT I can paint it any colour I like - yes very odd I know but I have it in writing.

Thank you for your reply. Your comments in black my response beneath.

I can assure you Steve I have a lot more experience than you of English Heritage and their laws/guidelines.

You have the power of telepathy as well? How do you know the full extent of my experiences with the UK planning and heritage system over the last thirty years?

I have been in the High Court twice for being in breach of these!

I have given evidence as a witness at the Lands Tribunal ( a division of the High Court) and in several other court cases as a witness. Most people regard being in court for being in breach of the law as a failure rather than something to add to their cv. What you are saying is that you lack the ability to work with the authorities which results in the expense of high court proceedings. I am 100% in favour and support you fighting the system but against you breaking the law.


Very briefly it took over 5 years to get permission to even live in the tower. During this time I broke a few of their 'laws'.

Not their laws, our law. In any event the law is that you get permission and generally it is down to your ability to persuade the authorities that what you want is within the spirit of the guidance. Why should the rest of us bother to obey the law when there are people like you who glorify the breaking of it. That there are obnoxious planning officers who go out of their way to be obstructive I accept. But they have 8 weeks to decide, you can then appeal so it only stretches to 5 years when you tolerate it or don’t have the skill to deal with them. If you are getting shitty treatment go to appeal and your decision is likely within months or a year.


I now give advice to potential converters of Ancient Monuments and my Tower is now considered the best example of a converted one.

Whether this is good or bad depends on the advice. From what you have written so far the courts are going to be busy.


So to sum up I required permission to hammer a nail into the wall or remove one brick,

Technically yes but English Heritage inspectors wouldn’t take you to court for a minor infringement. I know I have been there.


BUT I can paint it any colour I like - yes very odd I know but I have it in writing.

This is the sort of bollux that gets written on this web site and people go away thinking its not necessary to get permission. What you write is confusing drivel. You might have a letter that deals with a specific point – but it is only half the story. As a listed building it needs listed building consent if it changes the character. If you live in a listed building that is already painted you can repaint it the same colour or a shade that is similar without a listed building consent application. If you want to paint it a very different colour for example change from white to purple you need consent.

NOTE - I DO NOT INTEND TO PAINT IT PURPLE etc
Yeah I gathered that purple was an example.

- It was just an example of how strange the rulles and regulations are.

Not really you are confused. The law is mostly, only specific in respect of the hoops you have to jump through for example submitting a planning application , listed building consent, conservation area consent application or scheduled monument consent . You do this to be within the law. Beyond making an application there are no rock solid rules or regulations as you suggest; it is all guidance. The issues you raise relate to how guidance is interpreted not rules or regulations. The strangeness you refer to is the strength of the system; no situation is exactly identical to another. This results in neighbouring dwellings getting different decisions or very different situations getting the same treatment.

Painting falls under the umbrella of a listed building consent submission. It is impossible to have an approval that allows you to paint any colour. The reason is simple every application has to be treated on its merits the merit can only be determined by knowing the colour. In respect of painting any colour you want, you are only giving us part of the story. Provide us with the full context and it will be thrown into a new light.
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Dear oh Dear - we do have some idiots here - now whoever you are read and try to understand - I have it in writing with permission from English Heritage and Listed buildings I can paint the tower nay colour of my choice - do you understand english - well done. English Heritage supercede any other authority when dealing with Ancient Monuments. What they say goes. Try to keep up because your obviously a little slow. In other words listed building take advice from EH. I really can't be bothered with the rest of the rubbish you've written. I came on here to talk to REAL plasterers - and gratefully I have spoken to many who have given good solid advice about a subject they have knowledge about. I thank those that have helped. Steve of Render systems for example knows his stuff and talks plain simple sense - you sadly need to get a life and do something useful.
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