EWI - 'Lets Talk Prices'

Members online

Total: 616 (members: 5, guests: 611)

Share this page

Status
Not open for further replies.
AntJones

AntJones

Member
After Last years wet summer and a really cold winter.......

Cheer up EWI spreads - UK wide they are all so behind - According to the the laws of economics outlined here ( and if you all stick together) you're all in for a pay rise. :RpS_w00t:

In microeconomics, supply and demand is an economic model of price determination in a market. It concludes that in a competitive market, the unit price for a particular good will vary until it settles at a point where the quantity demanded by consumers (at current price) will equal the quantity supplied by producers (at current price), resulting in an economic equilibrium for price and quantity.


The four basic laws of EWI supply and demand are:[SUP][1][/SUP]​
  1. If EWI work demand increases and supply (of Spreads) remains unchanged, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price. Boss will have to pay to hold on to you :RpS_thumbup:
  2. If EWI work demand decreases (yeah right) and supply remains unchanged, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
  3. If EWI work demand remains unchanged and supply increases (not gonna happen on such a scale), a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
  4. If EWI work demand remains unchanged and supply decreases (fewer available spreads), a shortage occurs, again the boss will want to hang onto you leading to a higher equilibrium price. :RpS_thumbup:

Higher equilibrium Prices = More power to the trowel. At last, hopefully:RpS_confused:


 
Demand wont outstrip supply. I can get my hands on 200 rubbish men tomoz sat waiting.
They can ship em in and train em up faster than they can do the gda and the epc

If there was a ton of money to be made like they keep promise why are they constantly seeking unskilled cheap labour and firms going bust all over?
It will get "busier" yes but the money stays the same
 
The work is there but it's all too complicated and expensive.
The thing that yanks my chain is you can walk into any trade/diy shed and buy your own sand, cement, skim, PVC windows, any type of insulation to carry out all manner of works to a property.
Why can't you go and pick up some insulation slabs and some base coat(think tile adhesive) as for topcoat...well same as any rendering choices as long as they're suitable. Maybe then insulating houses will become popular. As it stands there's too much greed. Cut out all the middle men and profit obsessed manufacturers and break it all down to a 'shop around and piece together' type scenario. The tradesman will know what goes with what just like any other trade. If it goes wrong big deal. Sheit tradesman.
When I turn up at a job whether its insulation or render I know what I'm doing. Why ewi is any different from anything else puzzles me.
Guarantees? Not worth the paper they're written on. On my own house I'd pick and choose and not bother with any guarantee. Why.....because based on experience it'll be installed to a high standard with correct detailing. That's what determines longevity of a system not some poorly installed manufacturer backed situation.
Ewi is a craft best kept at shop floor level like plastering in general. Too many chiefs cashing in on the supposed ewi gold rush whilst forgetting that it's a craft not a few bolts and panels on the roof and cheque please
 
goody said:
The work is there but it's all too complicated and expensive.
The thing that yanks my chain is you can walk into any trade/diy shed and buy your own sand, cement, skim, PVC windows, any type of insulation to carry out all manner of works to a property.
Why can't you go and pick up some insulation slabs and some base coat(think tile adhesive) as for topcoat...well same as any rendering choices as long as they're suitable. Maybe then insulating houses will become popular. As it stands there's too much greed. Cut out all the middle men and profit obsessed manufacturers and break it all down to a 'shop around and piece together' type scenario. The tradesman will know what goes with what just like any other trade. If it goes wrong big deal. Sheit tradesman.
When I turn up at a job whether its insulation or render I know what I'm doing. Why ewi is any different from anything else puzzles me.
Guarantees? Not worth the paper they're written on. On my own house I'd pick and choose and not bother with any guarantee. Why.....because based on experience it'll be installed to a high standard with correct detailing. That's what determines longevity of a system not some poorly installed manufacturer backed situation.
Ewi is a craft best kept at shop floor level like plastering in general. Too many chiefs cashing in on the supposed ewi gold rush whilst forgetting that it's a craft not a few bolts and panels on the roof and cheque please
Click to expand...

This is a fantastic over view Goody ,very-well written and thought through mate , thanks for this great post, couldn't agree more :)
 
You only have to look at how many new rendering outfits are springing up , run by drips that have never done a days rendering in there lives, creaming there percentage off.
As Jfe says there is over demand. The government claimed the green deal would be good for the industry , it's not its just good for big business to get on and cream money off the back of applicators out there grafting and using there skill.
 
I'm sacking a 'rubbish' bloke in the morning... anyone here want to add him to their collection :RpS_wink:
 
Render done this way(ewi). Is alot easier that the trad way. So it's alot easier to train new and existing plasterers. Price will stay the same if not go down. Plastering is becoming easier - thin coat render internal/external spray machines all driving price down per m2.
 
goody said:
The work is there but it's all too complicated and expensive.
The thing that yanks my chain is you can walk into any trade/diy shed and buy your own sand, cement, skim, PVC windows, any type of insulation to carry out all manner of works to a property.
Why can't you go and pick up some insulation slabs and some base coat(think tile adhesive) as for topcoat...well same as any rendering choices as long as they're suitable. Maybe then insulating houses will become popular. As it stands there's too much greed. Cut out all the middle men and profit obsessed manufacturers and break it all down to a 'shop around and piece together' type scenario. The tradesman will know what goes with what just like any other trade. If it goes wrong big deal. Sheit tradesman.
When I turn up at a job whether its insulation or render I know what I'm doing. Why ewi is any different from anything else puzzles me.
Guarantees? Not worth the paper they're written on. On my own house I'd pick and choose and not bother with any guarantee. Why.....because based on experience it'll be installed to a high standard with correct detailing. That's what determines longevity of a system not some poorly installed manufacturer backed situation.
Ewi is a craft best kept at shop floor level like plastering in general. Too many chiefs cashing in on the supposed ewi gold rush whilst forgetting that it's a craft not a few bolts and panels on the roof and cheque please
Click to expand...


Goodman you wye valley slurping butty thats prob one of the best posts you done since I been on here.







MMMmmmmm wye valley


:rolleyes)
 
Eco/green deal = social housing work = **** rates !

I'm sticking to the private market, not everyone will want to go through green deal, especially when they realise they are paying a middle man a extra £30+ a metre to either use the same guys or worse to insulate there home !

Im only going to drop onto the Eco work when I'm quiet, just to earn some money rather than none or untill/if it increases to realistic rates.

I agree that the middle man has ruined it, there's too many people creaming off it, I understand somebody has got to make from it but at the rates being offered its not the tradesmen !
 
tell em you price is your price and you wont lower it by a chop just to accommodate some collar in a cheap suit
 
There is a little more to the rates being poor, other than 'the middle man taking a slice', ECO rates are genuinely not that great at the moment, the £30 pm2 you're talking of is balls, there are no room in the rates for these margins as far as i can tell.
 
In all fairness Jasper the £30 a metre I mentioned was based on green deal and not Eco work as it was in a paragraph about green deal, from my understanding ewi wall cost between £100-£130 if installed by a green deal installer ! I do it for £65-£90 a metre supply and fit.

As stated council (eco) work is s**t becauce they drive down the prices due to there buying power I understand nobody is creaming £30 a metre of this ! Nobody is making that much on Eco lol
 
mnkymartin said:
In all fairness Jasper the £30 a metre I mentioned was based on green deal and not Eco work as it was in a paragraph about green deal, from my understanding ewi wall cost between £100-£130 if installed by a green deal installer ! I do it for £65-£90 a metre supply and fit.

As stated council (eco) work is s**t becauce they drive down the prices due to there buying power I understand nobody is creaming £30 a metre of this ! Nobody is making that much on Eco lol
Click to expand...

I'm a GD Installer, and those rates are bollox
 
So what are the rates then, I'm going on what customers have been quoted and talk on LinkedIn, would be intresting to know from a actual green deal approved business, thanks.
 
22jasper said:
I'm a GD Installer, and those rates are bollox
Click to expand...

agree.
those rates of over a ton are like cavity rail system rates for a main contractor from 2003, half it and you will be closer but still not there


Jasper have you actually installed a GD yet ?
 
dont be talking rates on an open forum.
im also a green deal installer.
what are you on about talked about on linkedin. if you cant price it right leave it alone.
 
mnkymartin said:
In all fairness Jasper the £30 a metre I mentioned was based on green deal and not Eco work as it was in a paragraph about green deal, from my understanding ewi wall cost between £100-£130 if installed by a green deal installer ! I do it for £65-£90 a metre supply and fit.

As stated council (eco) work is s**t becauce they drive down the prices due to there buying power I understand nobody is creaming £30 a metre of this ! Nobody is making that much on Eco lol
Click to expand...

ECO isn't council work, do you know what you are talking about, or are you just picking up on hearsay and other assumptions?
 
plasterjfe said:
agree.
those rates of over a ton are like cavity rail system rates for a main contractor from 2003, half it and you will be closer but still not there


Jasper have you actually installed a GD yet ?
Click to expand...

ECO yes, GD no, and probably wont for 18 mths tbh, the financial market needs reflect the longevity of GD loan
 
Last edited:
22jasper said:
ECO isn't council work, do you know what you are talking about, or are you just picking up on hearsay and other assumptions?
Click to expand...

A large proportion of ECO work will be on social housing, that's where I'm coming from !
Yeah I do know what I'm talking about, although I will never say I'm always right and maybe some of it is hearsay but this is why Im here on the forum to hear other views !
 
mnkymartin said:
A large proportion of ECO work will be on social housing, that's where I'm coming from !
Yeah I do know what I'm talking about, although I will never say I'm always right and maybe some of it is hearsay but this is why Im here on the forum to hear other views !
Click to expand...

Not having a go mate.

You are wrong though regarding ECO. Social housing will only attract ECO if within a defined LSOA. The majority of all ECO works will probably come from private sector under CSCO and CERO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top