Daft question would like confirmation

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
Got a fireplace to do in next few weeks.
This one is for myself as having a multi fuel stove installed.

I'm going to be using k rend on the breast and sides of the chamber.
The rear wall of the chamber is done in stone.

I'm going for the rustic look on the whole breast to tie everything in.

I could S&C it but thought I'd try something a little different

My question is obviously I dont think plastic beads are a good idea around the opening.

Anybody used metal beads with mono (k rend silicone)?

Reason for asking is not a combination I have used before.
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
It's a big opening not your standard few mm clearance to stove.

I've seen it one done using k rend and not failed. Just not sure on the beads

So although not absolutely 100% on it I'm confident enough to give it a go at my own house.
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
The ? Was related to plastic beads usage in this scenario, I wouldn’t use them myself, I’d use stainless but galvanise would probably do , I wasn’t mad about using k-rend here
To be fair the question wasnt about plastic bead it was about where you can use metal beads with mono with no adverse effects
 

bobski

Well-Known Member
Got a fireplace to do in next few weeks.
This one is for myself as having a multi fuel stove installed.

I'm going to be using k rend on the breast and sides of the chamber.
The rear wall of the chamber is done in stone.

I'm going for the rustic look on the whole breast to tie everything in.

I could S&C it but thought I'd try something a little different

My question is obviously I dont think plastic beads are a good idea around the opening.

Anybody used metal beads with mono (k rend silicone)?

Reason for asking is not a combination I have used before.

Definitely dodge beads altogether.
Near heat, the metal will expand and contact faster than any render.

Work off a profile, remove near to the final stages.

Done these loads, I hold a temp profile, as soon as its pulled in, off she comes then return the corner.
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
Definitely dodge beads altogether.
Near heat, the metal will expand and contact faster than any render.

Work off a profile, remove near to the final stages.

Done these loads, I hold a temp profile, as soon as its pulled in, off she comes then return the corner.
Same principle for mono and S&C ?

Thinking I may actually forehand a bull nose as do want this particular fire feature to look rustic with everything else being modern

I'll post a photo in a mo
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
As you can see stone back.

And there is a mock up with stone hearth and the plinth will also be stone

20200620_154825.jpg
20200613_222321.jpg

As you can see it's not a massive opening but it is larger than a lot you see that have no clearance hardly at the sides.

Was originally going to brick slip the chamber sides but swaying the other way now
 

Brimstone

Well-Known Member
Ah Crap, sorry Reeves I'm going to have to pour some coldwater on your fireplace before it goes up in flames;

Building regs requires 3 times diameter of stovepipe or liner distance to timber - will char and eventually burn. put a conc lintel in and bring the timber forward. (no, a cment board won't work - think cooker hotplate.)
Beam - hopefully more than 450mm above top of stove for same reason. Some stoves require 600mm above.

That's a standard builders width opening, you'll get some air gap true but not enough for inflamble finishes, unless Krend write to you saying it can take continous heat up to 400-600 C inside the chamber, (they won't)
Bobski is right, metal bead expands quite bit, lots of render and plaster faces get away with it, lots of others don't. Solid edges in lime S/C the way to go.
That nice stone backing reduces the depth of your opening and shoves the stove forward a bit. That old hearth base is 12 " for open fires, you need 9 inches minimum from the front of where the stove ends up. Looks a bit narrow in your mock up. The idea is that hot coals don't drop off your door onto flamable floor finshes as you open it to refuel.
If you put k rend in the chamber or the beam too close, and either catches light the insurance company won't pay up for repairs, house replacement or your family.
There, right old misery ain't I ? :nocausagracia:
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
Ah Crap, sorry Reeves I'm going to have to pour some coldwater on your fireplace before it goes up in flames;

Building regs requires 3 times diameter of stovepipe or liner distance to timber - will char and eventually burn. put a conc lintel in and bring the timber forward. (no, a cment board won't work - think cooker hotplate.)
Beam - hopefully more than 450mm above top of stove for same reason. Some stoves require 600mm above.

That's a standard builders width opening, you'll get some air gap true but not enough for inflamble finishes, unless Krend write to you saying it can take continous heat up to 400-600 C inside the chamber, (they won't)
Bobski is right, metal bead expands quite bit, lots of render and plaster faces get away with it, lots of others don't. Solid edges in lime S/C the way to go.
That nice stone backing reduces the depth of your opening and shoves the stove forward a bit. That old hearth base is 12 " for open fires, you need 9 inches minimum from the front of where the stove ends up. Looks a bit narrow in your mock up. The idea is that hot coals don't drop off your door onto flamable floor finshes as you open it to refuel.
If you put k rend in the chamber or the beam too close, and either catches light the insurance company won't pay up for repairs, house replacement or your family.
There, right old misery ain't I ? :nocausagracia:
Strange mate I admit I'm not 100% up on everything but hetas engineer okd everything and building inspector happy

So as far as I'm concerned it's all good

Its definately not a standard opening height wise it's well over 1m

Hearth base is coming out the required amount it's not fixed in the pic was just placed as reference for visual
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
Forgot to add the mock up is to be moved forward to the required distance once the stone was in. Was a visual reference only.

As above the building inspector is happy and further to above the whole design has been ok'd by the HETAS installer.

I take on board about the krend etc that part is still open to change anyway on opinions as above.
May end up S/C& Lime.

Also not saying your wrong by any stretch as you seem to know your stuff and having looked at regs etc myself.
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
@Brimstone
I've asked the question regarding th beam and mentioned what you said.

Guys said to me you are quite right in what you say but the beam will be encased around the back and back bottom lip with heatproof material which is the reason the install is ok.

If it was just to be a beam on it's own then as you say would fall foul
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
Got a fireplace to do in next few weeks.
This one is for myself as having a multi fuel stove installed.

I'm going to be using k rend on the breast and sides of the chamber.
The rear wall of the chamber is done in stone.

I'm going for the rustic look on the whole breast to tie everything in.

I could S&C it but thought I'd try something a little different

My question is obviously I dont think plastic beads are a good idea around the opening.

Anybody used metal beads with mono (k rend silicone)?

Reason for asking is not a combination I have used before.
I can confirm that this is a daft question.
 

ChrispyUK

Well-Known Member
Gotta do my fireplace in the not too distant future, so I'm quite happy for people to ask the daft questions before I do :bailando:
 

Brimstone

Well-Known Member
@Brimstone
I've asked the question regarding th beam and mentioned what you said.
No worries. I'm HETAS myself. It's difficult to explain without getting into too much detail and/or upsetting a poster. All someone can do on a forum is give some pointers. It's great you've got a HETAS guy on board and if he's signing it off then bingo.
Don't however rely on a Building Inspector, many cannot find their arse with both hands. I have one senior inspector in my area who knows his stuff but his staff are by and large totally useless on stoves and chimneys. Provided they have actually walked on to the site apparently they are not liable for anything they have approved, e.g. Grenfell Tower.
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
No worries. I'm HETAS myself. It's difficult to explain without getting into too much detail and/or upsetting a poster. All someone can do on a forum is give some pointers. It's great you've got a HETAS guy on board and if he's signing it off then bingo.
Don't however rely on a Building Inspector, many cannot find their arse with both hands. I have one senior inspector in my area who knows his stuff but his staff are by and large totally useless on stoves and chimneys. Provided they have actually walked on to the site apparently they are not liable for anything they have approved, e.g. Grenfell Tower.
Agree mate
Not offended at all to be fair there's not many people who try and help point in the right direction.

But as before it's not something I was just piecing together and making up as go along.

HETAS guy went through it first and as you said have to be careful around the flue.

As long as we have the plate put there with a 20mm air gap we are ok as also the burner has a 5inch flue so helps as I think he said you can reduce the distance by half with the correct plate and air gap.

I appreciate the input so don't think you offended me far from it
It actually made me double check we were ok.

Inspectors round here can be slack at best of times your not wrong there
 

DanM22

New Member
Got a fireplace to do in next few weeks.
This one is for myself as having a multi fuel stove installed.

I'm going to be using k rend on the breast and sides of the chamber.
The rear wall of the chamber is done in stone.

I'm going for the rustic look on the whole breast to tie everything in.

I could S&C it but thought I'd try something a little different

My question is obviously I dont think plastic beads are a good idea around the opening.

Anybody used metal beads with mono (k rend silicone)?

Reason for asking is not a combination I have used before.
Hello bud
I was importing K-rend from Dublin 15 years ago for a period of 18 months. I could see issues with it after application over a few years as it started to ‘ orange peel/craze & dis-colour due to pigmentations in product. Always use Sand/Cement & a dash of hydrated lime .

Re plastic beads = Never
Cheap shite. Plastic twists & during any point of stress will hairline crack due to flexibility of plastic bead.
Always go stainless.
 

Monkey Boy

Active Member
No beads
Is your chimney going straight up or is it a party wall which twist round with neighbours?
If so may have issue with how many bends/turns you can have on the flue if your stove comes projecting forward due to stone work at back and your starting with an elbow on it may come a cropper
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
No beads
Is your chimney going straight up or is it a party wall which twist round with neighbours?
If so may have issue with how many bends/turns you can have on the flue if your stove comes projecting forward due to stone work at back and your starting with an elbow on it may come a cropper
It's on the party walk but it's all been checked and is ok
Going straight up not starting with a bend
 

The Hobo

Well-Known Member
No beads
Is your chimney going straight up or is it a party wall which twist round with neighbours?
If so may have issue with how many bends/turns you can have on the flue if your stove comes projecting forward due to stone work at back and your starting with an elbow on it may come a cropper
you going round the bend monkey
 
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