charging vat on materials

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does anybody who`s vat registered charge vat on the materials which are supplied on none vat jobs(new builds).example,if mono cost £8 per bag,200 bags is£1600.if u were`nt vat reg this would cost £1880.need to get a price in for mon morning so need to find out.cheers
 
u charge what it has cost u, ie £8 plus vat, so £1880. if u want a profit which u should then about £2000.

but ur invoice must just be £1880/£2000 no vat.

then u get ur vat back on the materials which u pocket, plus any profit u put ontop
 
nick0412 said:
u charge what it has cost u, ie £8 plus vat, so £1880. if u want a profit which u should then about £2000.

but ur invoice must just be £1880/£2000 no vat.

then u get ur vat back on the materials which u pocket, plus any profit u put ontop
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Being VAT registered is for your benefit. If I'm doing a zero rated job, my material charge will be what I have forked out for it, including the vat. Same with vat rated jobs. Materials plus vat, plus labour, plus vat on the lot. If I don't get the job, hey ho. If I do, then i'm making 17.5% on materials.
I'm doing a job for a developer at the moment who thinks i'm going to supply my materials at net. Dream on motherfucker.
 
you cant charge vat on an exempt job ie new build. its exempt for that reason? you charge at cost and claim the vat back off the mats if you do a job that IS vat rated you charge plus vat and then hand over the vat difference to hmrc on the vat return. vat is a tax on goods and services for the government its a little cut for them on trade thats it.
there is a few posts about vat on ere somewhere
 
TonyM said:
nick0412 said:
u charge what it has cost u, ie £8 plus vat, so £1880. if u want a profit which u should then about £2000.

but ur invoice must just be £1880/£2000 no vat.

then u get ur vat back on the materials which u pocket, plus any profit u put ontop
Click to expand...
Being VAT registered is for your benefit. If I'm doing a zero rated job, my material charge will be what I have forked out for it, including the vat. Same with vat rated jobs. Materials plus vat, plus labour, plus vat on the lot. If I don't get the job, hey ho. If I do, then i'm making 17.5% on materials.
I'm doing a job for a developer at the moment who thinks i'm going to supply my materials at net. Dream on mother(french word)er.
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Tony if your developer is accepting your rates then that is ok but if the vat man sees from your accounts that you charge vat on zero rated works and then also claim vat back from the same work you will be in deep sh1t pal, in effect you are taking out of the tax pot and never funding it. on a zero rated job you bill at cost and prof then get your vat back on the mats only not mats and services. not sure how you hide this in your books maybe you dont itemise your vat figures as vat? maybe it shows as your labour rate but be careful my mate is under investigation at the mo for doing exactly what you said here
 
it depends on how you invoice, if you list the materials as a charged item then you could be in trouble but you can always argue that you have put on a % for the hassel of ordering, delivery and waste.
If you have quoted a rate per m2 supply and fix then theres nothing anyone can do because the rate allows for labour and materails. I do the same as tony
 
i suppose then you will will have to say its proffit or labour charges then and not vat. I charge out at cost for new build and claim my vat from the mats. if on a vat rated job i price material and labour (still at cost) and then add vat to the final invoice, claim back from the mats and give the left over vat charged over to her majesty always followed this procedure since i registered as per the instructions int the vat pack sent to me by the queen herself
 
The invoice for my zero rated work shows no vat. If I was to itemise my materials, the figure stipulated would be inclusive of vat. It's just 17.5% profit on it. When I quote a metre rate for supply & fix, the materials are inclusive of vat. If the job is vat rated, then vat is on top of that. I'm doing nothing wrong. I'm forking out the VAT for 3 months, so 17.5% is my charge for doing so.
 
I see, so you are covering the cost of the vat on your mats by charging the 17.5 as a mark up on the price as that is what it costs at the time of purchase but show it as cost then claim your vat aswell. dont think I could do that as my rate would go up and my developers expect the vat discount passing on to them, all of em do and if the rate went up i recon we would lose out to firms that pass on the discount as i do now.
what about your rated work mats and services plus vat? how do you work that in to your prices
 
plasterjfe said:
I see, so you are covering the cost of the vat on your mats by charging the 17.5 as a mark up on the price as that is what it costs at the time of purchase but show it as cost then claim your vat aswell. dont think I could do that as my rate would go up and my developers expect the vat discount passing on to them, all of em do and if the rate went up i recon we would lose out to firms that pass on the discount as i do now.
what about your rated work mats and services plus vat? how do you work that in to your prices
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E.g Supply and fix plasterboard to 400m2 vat applicable job.
400m2 +10% waste = 440m2
Plasterboard cost £1.22m2 + vat
440 x £1.22 = £438.78
+ 17.5% vat = £515.53
Labour £3.00 m2 x 400 + £1200
Total cost of job to client £1715.53 + VAT or £4.29 per m2
 
lads,all i want to know is if i charge £8 per metre for my mono(price per bag).will i lose out cos i hav`nt allowed for the vat.the guy i`m pricing against will be vat reg so if he prices the same for mats,i want lose out.i`m not bothered about making profit on mats with the vat.
 
bobby 9 times out of ten he will be pricing at cost (without the vat) because he can claim it back afterwards.
I recon if you are not vat registered then you gotta allow for it otherwise you will lose out. lets just hope his labour rate is higher than yours in that case you could still be cheaper. lets say he is chargin 7.00/bag and you 8.23 because of the vat. he could be charging £20/metre you could be charging 18 you will beat him on the price.
 
i dont no any1 whos vat registered that charges materials minus the vat?????

the whole point of being vat registered is to be able to claim back vat for urself. not to give it to some1 else
 
nick0412 said:
i dont no any1 whos vat registered that charges materials minus the vat?????

the whole point of being vat registered is to be able to claim back vat for urself. not to give it to some1 else
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The point of being vat registered nick is so the government get their slice of the pie. its tax on goods and services TAX being the clue its for the gov. not a bonus for contractors. If you can hide it on your books then fair play you will be only taking vat out.
all my commercial work (zero rated new builds) I price at cost as do all of my competitors as our bills are itemised if we show to have charged material vat on a zero rated project then we would have errors on our books because we would be getting the vat of the developer and the government, if they spot it they will chuck the book at you. I aint saying you cant do what yourself and tony have done but what i am saying is you cannot show it as vat because if the vat man spots it he will pull it because in their eyes its wrong.
I always supply mats at cost and get my vat back later because my invoices and books show all vat figures itemised. thats why I like new build because I dont charge vat i only claim it from mats. if i was charge material cost and services cost plus vat on a job I would have to hand over the difference to hmrc after deducting what i spent on material vat.
I suppose your charging proffit of 17.5 on the supply of mats but without calling it vat. all the same its proffit i just go in at a labour rate that i am happy with and supply mats at cost as i still get my vat back so I aint losing out. it just keeps us competetive pricing against firms charging at 1% proff in some cases round our way
 
dunno if we got wires crossed but forgetting any profits etc, if i was supplying something that cost £10 plus vat, ie £11.75, then i would charge £11.75. if it was through a vat rated job then i would charge £11.75 plus vat. if a new build that isnt vat rated i would charge £11.75 no vat. but i would never charge £10. are u saying u would charge the builder £10?
 
nick0412 said:
dunno if we got wires crossed but forgetting any profits etc, if i was supplying something that cost £10 plus vat, ie £11.75, then i would charge £11.75. if it was through a vat rated job then i would charge £11.75 plus vat. if a new build that isnt vat rated i would charge £11.75 no vat. but i would never charge £10. are u saying u would charge the builder £10?
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Looks like it, and pass over all the suppliers discount too ???
 
TonyM said:
plasterjfe said:
I see, so you are covering the cost of the vat on your mats by charging the 17.5 as a mark up on the price as that is what it costs at the time of purchase but show it as cost then claim your vat aswell. dont think I could do that as my rate would go up and my developers expect the vat discount passing on to them, all of em do and if the rate went up i recon we would lose out to firms that pass on the discount as i do now.
what about your rated work mats and services plus vat? how do you work that in to your prices
Click to expand...

E.g Supply and fix plasterboard to 400m2 vat applicable job.
400m2 +10% waste = 440m2
Plasterboard cost £1.22m2 + vat
440 x £1.22 = £438.78
+ 17.5% vat = £515.53
Labour £3.00 m2 x 400 + £1200
Total cost of job to client £1715.53 + VAT or £4.29 per m2
Click to expand...
Have you got a new van? your picture has changed
 
Have you got a new van? your picture has changed
[/quote]

Getting it this week. Been waiting since mid Jan.
 
so in effect there in scenario 2 nick you are telling us that you charge vat twice? so you know that aint right? that would be like saying plus vat plus vat. you catch my drift what you are doing is making an extra proffit on you material thats ok as long as you dont record it on your books as vat.
heres what I do

Bag = £10 plus vat (1.75) Labour = £20

On a zero rated job i charge £30 and I get my material vat back later from hmrc 1.75

on a rated job I charge £30 plus vat = £35.25 (the vat is charged on "goods and services" in our case material and labur) later I claim the 1.75 back and hand the rest over to hmrc as per the instruction in the vat pack, thats why the system is there so they get their slice of the pie
If you check your vat pack or instruction online hmrc it tells you to do this thats why I have always done it.

If you guys dont record the vat then it will just show as proffit but the trade discount stands. all my competitors do the same I never heard of a company doing otherwise. probably different for guys applying to all sorts of private work etc but for your typical block of city centre flats this is what I do.
Do you guys have accountants and do you do vat returns yourselves?
 
plasterjfe said:
so in effect there in scenario 2 nick you are telling us that you charge vat twice? so you know that aint right? that would be like saying plus vat plus vat. you catch my drift what you are doing is making an extra proffit on you material thats ok as long as you dont record it on your books as vat.
heres what I do

Bag = £10 plus vat (1.75) Labour = £20

On a zero rated job i charge £30 and I get my material vat back later from hmrc 1.75

on a rated job I charge £30 plus vat = £35.25 (the vat is charged on "goods and services" in our case material and labur) later I claim the 1.75 back and hand the rest over to hmrc as per the instruction in the vat pack, thats why the system is there so they get their slice of the pie
If you check your vat pack or instruction online hmrc it tells you to do this thats why I have always done it.

If you guys dont record the vat then it will just show as proffit but the trade discount stands. all my competitors do the same I never heard of a company doing otherwise. probably different for guys applying to all sorts of private work etc but for your typical block of city centre flats this is what I do.
Do you guys have accountants and do you do vat returns yourselves?
Click to expand...

I have always had an accountant but do my own vat returns. My accountant checks them yearly and have had no problem thus far.
I understand why you do this to remain competitive. I've had a gut full of large contractors over the years and now only work for small developers, self builders, architects and a few private clients. I'm not competing with anyone generally. Big companies can go f**k themselves.
 
TonyM said:
plasterjfe said:
so in effect there in scenario 2 nick you are telling us that you charge vat twice? so you know that aint right? that would be like saying plus vat plus vat. you catch my drift what you are doing is making an extra proffit on you material thats ok as long as you dont record it on your books as vat.
heres what I do

Bag = £10 plus vat (1.75) Labour = £20

On a zero rated job i charge £30 and I get my material vat back later from hmrc 1.75

on a rated job I charge £30 plus vat = £35.25 (the vat is charged on "goods and services" in our case material and labur) later I claim the 1.75 back and hand the rest over to hmrc as per the instruction in the vat pack, thats why the system is there so they get their slice of the pie
If you check your vat pack or instruction online hmrc it tells you to do this thats why I have always done it.

If you guys dont record the vat then it will just show as proffit but the trade discount stands. all my competitors do the same I never heard of a company doing otherwise. probably different for guys applying to all sorts of private work etc but for your typical block of city centre flats this is what I do.
Do you guys have accountants and do you do vat returns yourselves?
Click to expand...

I have always had an accountant but do my own vat returns. My accountant checks them yearly and have had no problem thus far.
I understand why you do this to remain competitive. I've had a gut full of large contractors over the years and now only work for small developers, self builders, architects and a few private clients. I'm not competing with anyone generally. Big companies can go (french word) themselves.
Click to expand...

This set up is better at the mo tony as the big developers want everything for nothing at the mo their attitude is more like "you should be privaleged to work for us"
 
plasterjfe said:
so in effect there in scenario 2 nick you are telling us that you charge vat twice? so you know that aint right? that would be like saying plus vat plus vat. you catch my drift what you are doing is making an extra proffit on you material thats ok as long as you dont record it on your books as vat.
heres what I do

Bag = £10 plus vat (1.75) Labour = £20

On a zero rated job i charge £30 and I get my material vat back later from hmrc 1.75

on a rated job I charge £30 plus vat = £35.25 (the vat is charged on "goods and services" in our case material and labur) later I claim the 1.75 back and hand the rest over to hmrc as per the instruction in the vat pack, thats why the system is there so they get their slice of the pie
If you check your vat pack or instruction online hmrc it tells you to do this thats why I have always done it.

If you guys dont record the vat then it will just show as proffit but the trade discount stands. all my competitors do the same I never heard of a company doing otherwise. probably different for guys applying to all sorts of private work etc but for your typical block of city centre flats this is what I do.
Do you guys have accountants and do you do vat returns yourselves?
Click to expand...

yes mate have my own accountant and do my own vat returns. im pretty much the same as tony, all builders and small developers. but on the occasional newbuild i have always included vat in my material costs. i know what ur saying but i dont see why i should have to be out of pocket for 3 months till i can claim the vat back.
 
yeah it is a bummer being out of pocket especially on a big order. you have to cover yourself by what you make on the tools
 
i just think big builders make it too hard for people. u gotta be 17.5% out of pocket on materials for up to 3 months, normally it takes a month or 2 to get even the 1st wage off them, then u have contractors discount, then u have retention. i find its too much to risk if u get knocked, plus ur always waiting on money.
 
nick0412 said:
i just think big builders make it too hard for people. u gotta be 17.5% out of pocket on materials for up to 3 months, normally it takes a month or 2 to get even the 1st wage off them, then u have contractors discount, then u have retention. i find its too much to risk if u get knocked, plus ur always waiting on money.
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agree %100. they are all C.u.n.t.s
 
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