cheers for the advice guys,had the tapered ones as i let my mate with the big van pickem up for me and didnt realise until id got half of them upstairs,didnt have the heart,soul or effort to lug em all the back to wickes,or tell him they were the wrong ones for that matter.lol he was chuffed coz hed saved me a 10 spot by buying more than 5 of them!