brand new ceiling repaired 3 times, still cracking...

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jjokeef

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hi all,
just looking a little advice here on what to do next... a short story -
I recently had a local plastering firm install a new living room ceiling, they used all gypsum products.
The ceiling was 12mm plasterboard onto timber flooring joists. Currently no one is living in the property but the central heating is on at a constant 19 degrees. The plasterer did not stagger his boards and used a skrim tape rather than paper tape (as is used throught the rest of the house on its ceilings). He skimmed the ceiling and when finished the skrim tape was visible in a couple of areas through the plaster, the following day lines proud of the surface were visible in several places where the boards met. Another couple of days later a crack appeared on the new ceiling from one side of the room to the other. The plasterer returned and skrim taped directly over the crack and covered with an easy fill dry wall compound and sanded it back. A few days later a second crack appeared from one side of the room to the other on a different joint, again he returned and did the same repair. a week later and cracks running length and width of the ceiling were evident with the joints on virtually all of the ceiling boards being evident. He again returned and performed the same repair directly over the cracks stating the Gyproc had agreed that everything he had done was in accordance with their recommendations. Another week later and the ceiling now decorated is again beginning to show signs of cracks appearing where it was repaired. I have been given every excuse under the sun from cold weather (even when the heating was on!!) to vibrations from the electrician putting the ceiling lights up!
He was told of the conversation I had previously had with gyproc technical that his original use of skrim tape was not adequate and his repairs were not adequate either and he replied that it should not crack with skrim tape and he has told me to complain to gyproc as he has acted within their recommendations and have them advise.


I should mention that we have lived here 15 years with a ceiling that was crack free, it was only being replaced due to a small fire damaging one corner of the room (no water involved!)

The plasterer seems currently to be denying all responsibility and we have already had to pay the decorator to repaint the ceiling once after the last repair was done. I even got the gypsum rep to call out, and he said they would alway recommend paper tape being used on ceilings over timber flooring joists.
As no one is even living here yet and the room above is empty the only movement can be expansion and contraction of the timber joists which should not in itself cause the cracking??
Either way we now have a new ceiling which is cracking in several places which replaced a ceiling with no cracks so I am not at all happy with it.

Where do I go from here?? Anyone any ideas?

 
are you sure it was a plastering firm? if you have had a rep round did you tell him about the 'not staggering his boards'
 
Cant have been a proper spread if he didnt stagger the boards and i always us scrim tape and use paper tape when your taping the joints and not skimming the boards. pull it down and get it done properly as it seems to be constantly cracking
 
sounds to me like he was a chancer been watching a few home improvement shows and decided i can do that sorry to say.... the only thing you can do is take him to write a letter of complaint stating that his work doesnt comply with guidelines set out by gypsum and the work isnt up to standard also int he letter ask him for his insurance details and company number, just for your own piece of mind as any reputable company would have these, then if you get no joy after, i think its, 3 letters than you have a case to take him to small claims court to make him pay for a proper plastering company to come out and do the job that you have paid him for. But please dont let some cowboy put you off hiring a proper plasterer all joints should be staggered even a first year labourer shoulds that!

its an easy fix just board over the top and reskim
 
Like Henry said has it cracked on every joint or where there not staggered, sure you know but you lie you're boards across the joists then you stagger you're next line of boards there's one long join between, this isn't staggered if this has cracked somethings wrong other than the boards not been staggered
Scrim is standard I've never used paper tape same as 99% of other plasterers
Strange that it's still cracked through 2 layers of scrim
 
Can you feel any movement in the board just reread it and you're getting cracks along the length
 
how big is this ceiling? did he nail it screw it? were some of the boards just touching the edge of the joist? in other words poor boarding . I do not like having a pick at a plasterers work unless he gives his side of the story.
 
As said on the other treads there should be no problem using skim tape, I have come across this problem before.
1. boards were not staggered 2. not enough screws in the boards 3. plasterboards fixed inline with the ceiling joists and not at right angles.

If the plasterboards are fixed inline with the ceiling joists you will get peak along each long edge of the board, when plastered there will only be a very thin or no plaster coving the tape at the join.
On the short edge of the plasterboard there will be no timber joist to fix to.
Result ! cracks along ever joint of the plasterboard.

Cure, take it down and reboard or overboard again correctly.
 
Even a really badly boarded ceiling shouldn't crack so much. I think there must be some movement here.

I would scrape it back and refix with gigglepins, then render with a latex screed.
 
first of all this was a local plastering contractor which I am not going to currently name on here, the ceiling was screwed , boards were not staggered but were fitted at opposite angles to the joists. the joists are at 450 centres and there is not and never has been in the last 15 years of living there been any movement as previously stated the old ceiling was not cracked so I am failing to see why this one cracked on every board joint, that is each end and length joint not just one crack. It is cracking along the joists where the board joint is wall to wall as the joints have not been staggered, that is obvious. i think some of the boards were very close to the edges of the joists when fixed, but wasnt really watching as i trusted it was being done correctly. I know that they attached roofing battens to the edge of at least one joist that I saw to extend it and fix the board to.
There is not a cracked ceiling in the entire house and never was until this new ceiling was fitted, i do know that all the ceilings in the house are all papertaped. The only section not to crack is a small section at one end of the room which was the only piece of the original ceiling left in place, although where he joined on to this has cracked!
The problem I have now is that if it is scraped back and paper taped on every joint BUT left without the boards being staggered how much of an effect will this have.... I am pretty much sick of the whole affair at this stage.
 
i think i did already mention , all the joints were repaired over the surface and not dug out or cut back in anyway. then filled over the scrim with dry wall jointing paste and rubbed back (so the filler would be wafer thin imo? hence not much chance of it holding the crack). which incidentally is unsightly as well as it has left visible "humps" on the ceiling where some of these repairs were done..
 
over board the lot then and skim it then give the bill to the builder who bodged it in the first place
 
Joking aside, your only option at this stage is to get it overboarded and skimmed by a recommended plasterer.

It's obviously causing you some distress so I would say, bite the bullet and get it done properly.

Ask him to span the cracks with the new boards whilst staggering them.

If it cracks again then you have movement for sure.
 
Maybe the fire caused some structural damage that wasn't immediately obvious. Did the insurance company send a surveyor round to inspect prior to any work being done? and how do you know that all the rest of the boardwork in the house is taped and not scrimmed?
 
thats a thought tell the insurance company to get on to him maybe they could stop the cheque
 


if i wanted an artex ceiling I would have invented a time machine and moved back to the eighties..

And to answer another question - the fire was very minor and limited to below celing level - the ceiling plasterboard was basically only smoke damaged
so there was definately no structural issues.

And i know the rest of the house is papertaped as I put a new ceiling up 15 years ago in one downstairs room and one bedroom due to changes ie removal of loft hatch upstairs and new conservatory on the dining room at the rear of the house - incidentally neither of them cracked!
There is something fundementally wrong with this ceiling, I work on site myself and am not daft. There is not and has never been any movement other than normal expansion and contraction of the timbers, this isnt a new house and as stated the original ceiling wasnt cracked....

Main problem with over boarding is that the room is now coved (which partly fell down after he did it and had to be redone...) to overboard all the cove would have to come down and then the whole room would have to be redecorated at much expense. I am not responsible for any of this and am ending up being stuck with the bill which simply isnt right. If I did a job for someone I can bet a penny to a pound that I would be held responsible and forced to put it right.
 
one theory that the gypsum rep came up with was that as some skim tape was still visible when the ceiling was originally plastered and the joints all had "humps" evident immediately after it was skimmed that the plaster haddnt been done thick enough and the quick drying of the thin plaster had caused it to be weaker than it should be.
I still dont understand what these "humps" in the ceiling where all the joints were are - they appeared immediately when the ceiling started to dry out... to me they appeared to be approximately the width of the skrim tape??? then cracked down their centres.
 
if your not gonna rip it down and reboard or board over the top you dont have any other options
the humps you talk about will be where he came back to fill the cracks or were they there before the cracks (did he use tapered boards by any chance?)
 
if your not gonna rip it down and reboard or board over the top you dont have any other options
the humps you talk about will be where he came back to fill the cracks or were they there before the cracks (did he use tapered boards by any chance?)

no, these "HUMPS" appeared immediatelythat the ceiling was drying before any cracking appeared.
 
obviosuly the ceiling does now have much wider "humps" in the ceiling where the drywall filler repairs were done on top of the surface.
 
I have tried to be as reasonable as possible, not shouting or getting angry but I am now at this stage concerned that the ceiling was not boarded correctly in the first place and that any further attempts at repair will not last.
Ripping the ceiling down and starting again will incurr a lot of other costs which I certainly do not feel I should be responsible for but it does need to be rectified before its been left for too long so that other excuses can be used. just wanted someone to put my concerns to rest really, but its not happened as yet.. unfortunately
 
Right JJ the problem is simple its not been boarded correctly, he hasnt staggered the boards which strengthen the ceiling and reduce the chances of cracking. If you dont stagger boards the joists move with the temp in the room below and above so your gonna get cracks guaranteed. If your joists are at different levels and they will be wether a few mills or more your gonna get humps expecially if you dont stagger them. the easiest solution is over board and skim but staggering the boards and staggering where it has cracked. you can patch it till your blue in the face and get as many reps as you want out but unless you do whats been said in this thread your gonna be getting cracks forever. Its your plasterers fault coz he hasnt boarded it correctly so how you deal with it is upto you oh how much did you pay? was he recommended? did you get any other quotes?
 
Right JJ the problem is simple its not been boarded correctly, he hasnt staggered the boards which strengthen the ceiling and reduce the chances of cracking. If you dont stagger boards the joists move with the temp in the room below and above so your gonna get cracks guaranteed. If your joists are at different levels and they will be wether a few mills or more your gonna get humps expecially if you dont stagger them. the easiest solution is over board and skim but staggering the boards and staggering where it has cracked. you can patch it till your blue in the face and get as many reps as you want out but unless you do whats been said in this thread your gonna be getting cracks forever. Its your plasterers fault coz he hasnt boarded it correctly so how you deal with it is upto you oh how much did you pay? was he recommended? did you get any other quotes?

The ceiling is approx 4 metres x 7.5 metres and after deducting the cost of the skip the plasterer was paid £1100 which was to include ripping down the old ceiling and cove(which I actually did to help the job along quicker! for which he skimmed round a doorway and wall in with the job) and replace with a new ceiling and coving . I originally got another quote which was actually £300 cheaper
he has now offered to come back and papertape and reskim, and said the gyproc rep couldnt see that the boards werent staggered - to which I answered that we both know they werent as I saw them being put up and questioned it at the time... no reply after that
 
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