Advice appreciated. Scenario: Bare chimney breast with Edwardian arch fireplace inset

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ianlinux

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Hi, I'm a DIY plasterer with some experience doing float & set, skimming with usual plasters but not sand/cement/lime rendering. If the answers are already out there on this forum, please accept my apologies in advance but I have done a search to no avail.

1) Chimney breast. I don't want to dot 'n' dab plasterboard and would rather float and set as the rest of the room. The chimney breast plaster was previously hacked off (inc. sides), to accommodate a wood burner - soon to be fixed. The background has been PVAd, so for the scratch coat I intend to use Bonding. However, I've never used Hardwall (only Browning) before and would like to have a go.

Q1) Do you think I could safely use Hardwall final float coat on a Bonding scratch coat or just go Bonding all the way?

2) Beading for arch. Obviously for the chimney breast sides, the usual angle beading is no problem, but the arch is proving a headache. I could buy a pair of arch formers and marry these up to the vertical bottoms of the arch with some normal angle bead but being metal, I've read that the expansion and contraction due to heat variations might cause the plaster (breast side) and render arch inset sofit side to crack. So I then thought of the flexible plastic beading you can buy, but the stuff I've researched seems too narrow for float and set and would have to be built out somehow.

Q2) What would experienced plasterers suggest for beading around an arch where a wood burner is to eventually go?

3) Rendering of the internal arch and inset area. Okay, so as the scenario above suggests, I have to render the inside of the arch (including the curved bit above) with a lime s/c mix to account for the heat extremities of the wood burner (< 50 kW). I've never done a render coat before but would like to have a go. I've read on this forum and others that the lime will add flexibility and probably should go up on a 7:1:1 mix of sand:cement:lime.

Q3) Could people please advise whether the proportions above are correct?

Q4) Can people please recommend a suitable consistency, bearing in mind that I'd have to render the inside arch above the hearth to a square aperture for the fluepipe's register plate (the perimeter of which I intend to stop bead).

Q5) I'm unsure if the background to the arch inset area has been PVAd in places, so am wondering if s/c render will go over a low suction background and if not, should I apply PVA to the mix and background to ensure a firm footing?

Once again, thanks for any help in advance, regards Ian
 
There are lots of different ways to go about it, without looking at it this is what I might do.


1: all bonding but if the face of the breast is going to get hot then render might be best.

2: metal might be your best bet or freehand/hard angle. (difficult for novice)

3: I prefer a stronger mix 5:1:1 .

4: Can't answer that in words, stiffish

5: Is it dusty when you run your fingers over it? If so, brush it down and give it a weak PVA (5;1) For peice of mind you might want to fix E.M.L with a scratch of 4/4.5:1:1
 
Thank you so much DannyMac:

1) This was quite strange. I removed the original 1905 wooden fire surround as advised by Building Control and behind that the old plaster just dropped off - as expected. Elsewhere to the side and just above where the surround was to about half way up the c. breast was old plaster. Then I started hitting bonding coat and plaster repair jobs. But what I did notice was that where the plaster followed the flue (Centre of arch towards left of ceiling cornice), the bonding that was put on subsequently came off fairly easily but in solid chunks and you could see a slight stain where it came off. However, it wasn't blown. Elsewhere, outside the flue line the bonding was the usual bu**er to get off. When the new wood burner goes in, it will be serviced by a 6inch flue liner and insulated with vermiculite. So I'm thinking the heat transfer through the flue to the brickwork will be minimal. Any heat generated will be that which rises from the flue pipe to the flue liner and the burner itself to the soffit, back and sides of the arch. But like you, I did think about a s/c/l render too - especially around the beading section.

2) I might just go with metal beading and take the risk on the expansion. It'll be 2.5ft to the arch itself and 10inches to the sides. I don't think I'm up to the standards of a manual arch around a temporary former. I did think about removing a layer of bricks and inserting a concrete cast fabrication to the shape of the original arch but with the work involved and structural support thought better of it. But at least that would negate any arch plastering/rendering.

3) Yes I might go with that too. Thanks for the advice.

4) Stiffish it will be.

5) It's dusty in places and shiny in others so I don't know if the latter is natural patina where the old open fire reacted of where former owners sealed exposed brick. Anyway, E.M.L. does give the project a whole new dimension I hadn't considered so thank you for that.

Appreciated :)
 
Thanks flynnyman and kebab king.

Flynnyman - I've never done much with s/c/l before so there's always a first time. Learnt my floating and setting with Browning and Bonding. How would it go on a heavily PVAd surface? Would I need to leave a sticky PVA again and add some to the render mix?

Kebab King - Vitcas - Have you seen the price of that stuff? I have toyed with the idea of using it in the alcove/inset near the hottest points though in conjunction with a render.
 
personally i'd just sand and cement the inside, hardwall the outside and the sides of the chimney breast.

on previous jobs i've just used a plastic bead to form the curve.
 
personally i'd just sand and cement the inside, hardwall the outside and the sides of the chimney breast.

on previous jobs i've just used a plastic bead to form the curve.
Thanks twitcher. I've had all the advice now. I guess it's now down to me to take my choice. But if I wanted to use Hardwall would it be okay on a bonding scratchcoat given the PVAd brickwork?

Cheers, appreciated!
 
big up the linux massive :RpS_wink:
Absolutely, and no stupid MS or Apple surcharges. Stick to a Debian based distro like Ubuntu and keep to an LTS update (not the very latest offerings whihc can be buggy) and you have a very stable, fast and efficient system with lots of free apps that the others would charge $$$s for. Admittedly not great for gaming, but for nearly everything else - a smart move out of PC serfdom!!!
 
Absolutely, and no stupid MS or Apple surcharges. Stick to a Debian based distro like Ubuntu and keep to an LTS update (not the very latest offerings whihc can be buggy) and you have a very stable, fast and efficient system with lots of free apps that the others would charge $$$s for. Admittedly not great for gaming, but for nearly everything else - a smart move out of PC serfdom!!!

I think my temporal lobe just exploded!
 
ok inside fire place, pva all bare brickwork, scratch coat with 3 and 1 sand and cement scratch coat with fibre strands and strong sbr addative added, top coat overlay with with 3 / 1 sand and cement top coat with alkaline resistant crack mesh in and rub up, or if u want a smoothfinish plaster with sbr and neat cement finish and trowel as normal finish coat.
For the arch use hard board to form arch under neath as u would when using rules to do exterior angles, basically u r using the curve of the hard board to do what a straight rule would do for an external. we as a company do not use pre form arches as they are limited in there use, with the hard board u can make a arch any size any width, strike the hard board and plaster to the hard external to the underside.

for anymore questions and queries please contact jasper@tylermereplastering.com
 
ok inside fire place, pva all bare brickwork, scratch coat with 3 and 1 sand and cement scratch coat with fibre strands and strong sbr addative added, top coat overlay with with 3 / 1 sand and cement top coat

Why does it need SBR and fibre strands in it, and why dont you make the top coat weaker than the scratch?
 
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