need help lads

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mshawplastering

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hi hope u are all well

Need a bit of advice got let down by one of the plasterers i use when busy becouse of the weather and got a 22sqm artex ceiling to get done tomorrow what do u use to hold the setting time back on multi as mixing up as well need to get this done so any help will be good many thanks
 
why would you need to hold it back on a small ceiling?
Just be prepared mate,get ur buckets filled with water ready get ur scaffold set ready, plaster bags open and ready.
22 m2 ceiling is not that big.
IMportant thing is to kill the suction !!! pva it well 2 coats as stated on label.
Also make sure heating is off.
The cooler the room is the longer the plaster wil hold.

Put ur first coat plaster on abit thicker than usual and lay it on with minimal lines try to be neat.This will give u a few more mins if u really are desperate for them.

Then mix ur second coat up and bang it on keep ur edges clean and tools clean as you go.
Once it s on and flat thers no problems, if your losing it a bit just give it a drink of water to bring it back to life then carry on.
 
hi lads

thanks for the help i now its not a hugh ceiling but on artex can go off qicker than normal carnt turn the heating off as not working at the min and stuck on bloody hot tryed to turn off the rads the other day with no joy but thanks for the help where do u get cream of tarter as never had to use any thing before thanks again
 
Cream of tartar... are you serious?

I personally would think that was a wind up :)

If you can get in the house the night before get some Wickes Bonding Agent on the ceiling that will kill the suction and give you more time but on 20mtrs should piss that really :)
 
Cream of Tartar will come in handy though, when he has his lunch looking up at the ceiling asking why it all went so badly wrong he could use it on his sarnies.

cream of Tartar lol.
 
seriously been on sites with lads doin 10 bag lids and they were puting in their mix said it held it back longer. seem to work for them. never used it my self though
 
Well when you can explain to me the chemical reaction that occurs between Gypsum and myonaise and salad cream with a spoon full of tabasco (ingrediant for tartar suace) then ill be blown over.
Fools,you really beleive that ? lol
I remeber 18 month ago some one asked about how to re***d i for a laugh told them to use goat milk or soomot a nd he beleived me.
If there was suck a product on the market that worked dont you think wanna be plasters and coursers would be buying it by the 50 lite drum and danny would be advertising such a product allover ythis forum.
 
its something to do with citric acid i know a bloke who uses all the time makes it look funny though
 
Its a chemical reaction that makes plaster go off.The second water or moisture touches plaster the chemical reaction takes place and the plaster starts to set.
To my knowledge there is no way to slow down gysum finnish plasters.
You can slow down oyther plasters and renders though for sure.
You can also slow down plaster used in mouldings for corniche etc although ther really is no need to in this country.
 
size is what plasterers called retarder and you do need it if casting cornice and it will slow multi down aswell as casting plaster
 
Of course it will slow it. But it will also weakon it to a point it usless mate trust me.
Shouldnt be giving newbies useless advice that will fck there work up even more.
 
If finnish plaster could safely /slowly controlled in speed of drying BG would sell us a product suitable for exactly that.
 
Grand i know ur a professional but this is something i will never agree with you on pal.This is what i was told and still beleive years later,dont fcuk around with the mix.
Ive seen yound lads using ice cold water ,milk , plastersizer,concrete retarder and all sorts to no avail.
Control the suction or get more spreads on hand this is what i do and was taught
 
Sandy when u go out on the lash and consume 8 pints of say premium strength lager for arguments sake.
Would u expect ur s h i t the next day to stick to the pan or flush in one?

If its wet and sloppy the chances are it will stick.Like my mix on Paint.
 
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grand wizard said:
size dont weaken plaster
Click to expand...

Spot on as usual Grand
Gypsum plaster in its natural state sets like greased lightening but BG add a retarder to make it usable and Cream of tartar has been used by plasterers for at least 60 years and almost certainly a lot lot longer and does give extended setting times without causeing any problems provideing you dont over do it but thats no different to adding any additive above its correct dosage (plasticiser, waterproofer, rapid hardener to cement mixes).
 
a couple of handfulls of dabbing compound (knauf) in the mix really slows the set down. Did this myself as i had run oiut of multi and needed to thicken up the final mix of the day and this was all I had in the van. Slowed the second coat down loads, it just would not go off. After about half an hour more than usual it started to go in exactly the same way it always does. Trowelled up like normal and it looked just the same as normal. Went back once it was dry and it looked no different to the rest of the walls I'd done as normal with just multi. That was 9 months ago and its still on the wall as i was round there again last week pricing more stuff. So it does work, give it a go and let me know if you agree
 
I bet you Andy nor Grand ever have or will use tartar sauce salad cream mayo or sodium citrate in ther GYPSUM finish plaster mix (period).

But retarder,waterproffer etc platicise in s/c is a differnt story all together.
 
mshawplastering said:
hi lads

thanks for the help i now its not a hugh ceiling but on artex can go off qicker than normal carnt turn the heating off as not working at the min and stuck on bloody hot tryed to turn off the rads the other day with no joy but thanks for the help where do u get cream of tarter as never had to use any thing before thanks again
Click to expand...


If the heating controls won't shut the boiler off then just turn the gas off at the control handle at the meter?
 
stolen stilton said:
a couple of handfulls of dabbing compound (knauf) in the mix really slows the set down. Did this myself as i had run oiut of multi and needed to thicken up the final mix of the day and this was all I had in the van. Slowed the second coat down loads, it just would not go off. After about half an hour more than usual it started to go in exactly the same way it always does. Trowelled up like normal and it looked just the same as normal. Went back once it was dry and it looked no different to the rest of the walls I'd done as normal with just multi. That was 9 months ago and its still on the wall as i was round there again last week pricing more stuff. So it does work, give it a go and let me know if you agree
Click to expand...

when you say it looked the same as normal, do you mean rough and full of holes?
 
skimmin2day said:
I bet you Andy nor Grand ever have or will use tartar sauce salad cream mayo or sodium citrate in ther GYPSUM finish plaster mix (period).

But retarder,waterproffer etc platicise in s/c is a differnt story all together.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest you don't gamble to heavily then.
I admit I haven't used it often because I used to be quick enough not to need to on almost any job but there were times when I used it when I thought it would be advantagous just the same as my father did before me and his father did before him.
Cream of tartar is not salad cream, mayonaise, the sauce you put on fish or elephant jisim.
I'm sure if you put a whole tub in a bucket it would cause problems but a couple of spoonfulls wont, that's why I mentioned the other additives.
 
Well if ur coursers beleive that good for them.Personally i been around a long time and wont be using it.
I aint calling you liar just saying i dont agree with you on this matter.
If you want to put Tarter suace in ur plaster rather than ur haddock and chips thats ur choice.
Never seen a mention of it in the BG white book though,not that ive read it cover to cover though if im honest and that is the plasterers BIBLE !!
It could be possible that the chemicals in tarter sauce lol do create an adverse reaction in board finnish as it does create an adverse reaction in my ass if i put it on my fishfingers.
 
Its mainly used in fibrous plastering as a retarder and keratin is also used, The setting time of calcium sulphate hemihydrate castings is controlled by adding to the slurrying water a calcium compound which will react with sulphuric acid to form calcium sulphate, adding sulphuric acid to the mixture, allowing the calcium compound and acid to react partially, and during the reaction adding adding solid calcium sulphate hemihydrate to the aqueous mixture.calcium sulfate hemihydrate is created when you heat gypsum. So as you add water into plaster a chemical reaction occurs generating heat and the calcium sulfate hemihydrate starts to turn back into hard gypsum.

Cream of tatar is potassium hydrogen tartrate, an acid potassium salt of tartaric acid. Proteinaceous retarders, such as SUMA, Cream of Tartar (potassium bitartrate), sodium citrate and diethylenetriamine pentaacetic acid are examples of a retarder.

Fancy a long read? GYPSUM MIXTURES FOR FORMING SOLIDS - Patent Application 20090101045
 
flynnyman said:
Its mainly used in fibrous plastering as a retarder and keratin is also used, The setting time of calcium sulphate hemihydrate castings is controlled by adding to the slurrying water a calcium compound which will react with sulphuric acid to form calcium sulphate, adding sulphuric acid to the mixture, allowing the calcium compound and acid to react partially, and during the reaction adding adding solid calcium sulphate hemihydrate to the aqueous mixture.calcium sulfate hemihydrate is created when you heat gypsum. So as you add water into plaster a chemical reaction occurs generating heat and the calcium sulfate hemihydrate starts to turn back into hard gypsum.

Cream of tatar is potassium hydrogen tartrate, an acid potassium salt of tartaric acid. Proteinaceous retarders, such as SUMA, Cream of Tartar (potassium bitartrate), sodium citrate and diethylenetriamine pentaacetic acid are examples of a retarder.

Fancy a long read? GYPSUM MIXTURES FOR FORMING SOLIDS - Patent Application 20090101045
Click to expand...
was just going to say that ha ha
 
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