taylorhendersonplastering
Well-Known Member
Thanks for letting me know m8 because I don’t have a crystal f**k**g ball..
Want a well paid job?
- Thread starter CeeVee
- Start date
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
I do understand where you're coming from, and believe me it's no different as a builder. Yes three or four jobs can cover you for a year, but you still have to get them and if you don't it's three months sat at home instead of three days.
My approach to it was BMW vs Hyundai. Comparable models that do the same thing, both move people about in relative comfort. So why are people prepared to pay almost double for a BMW? Marketing, it's as simple as that.
So relating that to my/our game it's all about making people realise/convincing them that they are getting a better product/job for a larger cost. If I'd just rocked up in tattered jogging bottoms in an old Transit that looked as if I'd dredged it out of the canal and just chucked them a higher price I wouldn't have got it.
The changes I made were :-
- Work on the basis that I'm running a small building firm, not a self-employed builder.
- Professional web site.
- FMB membership (reputation, project insurance etc).
- New (tidy would do) van professionally sign written.
- Choose the jobs you quote for. Usually a look on Google Earth will decide if I quote at all.
- Keep up to speed with what's 'in' (grey kitchens, bi-fold doors or whatever) so that you can talk about them if it comes up.
- All quotes in writing. No guesstimates, no verbal prices.
- Spend a bit of time at quote chatting through the job, asking questions etc. i.e. look and sound interested.
- Terms and conditions document.
- State from the outset that you do not accept cash.
- Be very careful and selective where and how you advertise. My only current advert for example is in the Building Conservation Directory.
- Back it all up with quality work which involves things like using experienced trades where required rather than 'having a go' and using quality materials rather than the cheapest you can get.
It takes some time, and costs some money, but then that's true for any decent business. When I came back to working for myself 10 years ago I just took whatever I could, then gradually moved up the ladder with the work type. Most other builders in the area just carry on taking whatever comes up. So whilst they're fcuking about grafting a white box onto the back of a terraced house for £40k, I'm putting an apex roof, vaulted ceiling extension onto a detached house in Solihull for £80k.
"Work smarter not harder" has been said on here many times. How many have actually put any thought into how to do that? A quote often ascribed to Einstein "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." Take a look at your business, and those who are doing better and compare what/how they do it to what/how you do.
I'm all in favour of people looking at a way of doing things and deciding they can't be hooped with the hassle, but to not at least consider it is just foolish IMNSHO.
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
Good man. You've obviously made a success if it!
I have a major issue with number 10 though...
It's amazing how many people, including customers, do. The look on their faces when I say no cash is similar to the one on the plumber's face when I hoof all the copper into the skip.
Fantastic write up @Amigo...
I appreciate you know your side of the building game....
However please take it from me from a plastering prospective you hit a ceiling price on jobs on what people are willing to make much quicker than yourselves.
Joe public understand that a quilty extension will add value etc and have the fear factor on your side of bodge building jobs and safety issues etc.
A living room reskim is a living room reskim and trust me nobody wants to or is willing to pay more than the next man these days.
I've been in this game 20yrs now and at one time you would get the job on merit as often as price.
Them days are well and truly over!
I appreciate you know your side of the building game....
However please take it from me from a plastering prospective you hit a ceiling price on jobs on what people are willing to make much quicker than yourselves.
Joe public understand that a quilty extension will add value etc and have the fear factor on your side of bodge building jobs and safety issues etc.
A living room reskim is a living room reskim and trust me nobody wants to or is willing to pay more than the next man these days.
I've been in this game 20yrs now and at one time you would get the job on merit as often as price.
Them days are well and truly over!
zolco
Private Member
You should stop promoting your pressure washer
I don’t know what part of the world you live in, but here in Herts&Beds I find that the most important thing is trust as opposed to the odd50/100 quid
It's that first impression thing isn't it,
All I would add to that, that I do is I keep an a4 binder of selected previous jobs that I show to potential customers it goes a long way.
I used to be fmb and I won a lot of work through them, the only registered body that I'm with now is chas, costs a fortune and hassle, but I have to have it as I've a contract with a housing association.
We're lucky enough to pick and choose render projects, plus I've built up loyalty with a few builders and developers over the years.
I'm pretty much with you on all 12, although I've never sign written my vans, and I've never spent a penny on advertising,I don't think there's a need nowadays with web sites, Facebook etc available.
I don't accept cash either and I've lost jobs through it in the past, why should I do them a favour, let them pay there tax like every one else has to.
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
I'm not arguing or saying plasterers are doing things wrong etc. Just making the point that it's a good idea to have a good think about how you run your business.
That said, I think any single trade operators are going to struggle these days. Partly because site rates are dog sh1t for most compared to years gone by. But also because customers don't know what's involved and/or can't be bothered getting in a sparks, plumber, plasterer and kitchen fitter, they want a one stop shop for the whole job.
Vincey
Private Member
Karcher is good tbhYou should stop promoting your pressure washer
Pagey
Private Member
I’m surprised you got electric if I’m honest although to me North is outside the m25 I think in London it’s competitive for money as well especially amongst builders as the middle class areas do love a Eastern European builder
I think customers pick up on a knowledgable plasterer though. If as @imago stated, you go through the job explaining what needs doing and giving options/things to consider (showing aninterest in doing it right) then the customer will put up with paying a good price.
Not surprising though. Friend of current client has taken 8 months to get kitchen fitted because of all the differnt trades arsing around not working together. If someone can't plaster/spark/chippy/plumb, then they sure as hell aren't going to be a decent project manager.
Pagey
Private Member
I Defo think it’s how you come across when looking at work I only have about 2-3 plasterers I could say look I’ve got this job but I’m to busy do you want to go have a look the ones I pass work onto have never let me down never had a complaint saying your mate let me down it keeps me in loop they are kept busy so everyone is happy, I’ve never got that oh put a drink on top for me cos what is a drink if it’s say a standard bedroom ceiling and you price at your rates plus materials it can be hard to justify putting a drink on top understand if it’s a big job and an earner you can do that but I’ve always felt put out when someone says that
Danny
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I rather work 1 day for £400 than 4 days at £100
You aint ever going to work for 1 day for £400 plastering in south yorkshire mate!
Not in a million years!
Danny
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Exactly....
Danny
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I am sure you will... just need to find the right places...
Pagey
Private Member
Trouble is it’s whats being dictated now I find it criminal a multi turder is seen as more cost effective than a sole tradesman when to me it’s just diy blokes giving it a bash and stealing a living off proper trades and driving wages down I appreciate old school builders who know everything but get in proper trades for certain jobs it’s rare to be appreciated these days
Danny
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Yup... i pick and choose my work these days
efc plastering
Member
Lucky to get that a month where i live!
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
For me sign writing is about getting the name stuck in people's minds, and also presenting a more corporate professional image. Both points are debatable, but what isn't is that my insurance is £100 a year cheaper if the van carries sign writing than if it doesn't.
Danny
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FreeD
Private Member
The trades will start to be flooded over the next few years there will be no need for apprenticeships...many people losing there job due to automation & AI will train, will be the next best option and something that can't be automated. I wouldn't want to be starting in a trade now too much competition rates will come right down.
CeeVee
Well-Known Member
Well you're a right bundle of joy aren't you!
FreeD
Private Member
Mouldyoldspudgun
Well-Known Member
Even cheaper if don’t have any vans, couldn’t resist that sorry
Mouldyoldspudgun
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of Fraser from dads army “doomed we’re all doomed”Just a friendly warning mate...hope you have an exit plan lol
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
I agree with some of that, but it's not the end if you can see it coming and do something about it. Which sort of goes with what I was saying about changing some of what you do and the way that you do it to make money.
The majority of my work now is on pre-war buildings. 38% of all the houses (leaving aside public, commercial etc) were built before WWII. Generally speaking, they are now worth more per square foot than the newer houses, need more upkeep, and fewer (reducing all the time) trades are familiar with how they were built, with what, and the right methods of repair and alteration.
That's somewhere between nine and ten million homes which, if you know what you're doing, you can rightfully charge more to work on. If you aren't familiar with working on them then you can learn. It really isn't rocket science, but the knowledge is vital t getting it right. It's also vital to be able to discuss things with the customer in a way that shows them you know what you're doing, and certainly more than Joe Bloggs who you're quoting against.
So the future's bright if you get yourself sorted in time.
Personally, I couldn't give a flying fcuk what happens with trades to be honest. I've tried on numerous occasions to pass on knowledge and information to apprentices and people new to the game. Sadly whilst I can lead the horse to water, I can't make it brush it's teeth. So I'll do my remaining 7 - 10 years and then enjoy the sh1t show whilst posting "I told you so you bone idle know it all wasters." all over the internet. Of course I will keep myself available for consultation, but as there'll be even fewer with the knowledge my rates will put a solicitor to shame.
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
Yeah, I imagine it's pretty cheap to laser print some stickers for a hatchback.
Mouldyoldspudgun
Well-Known Member
I meant your vans, it would save more than 100 pound if you had noneYeah, I imagine it's pretty cheap to laser print some stickers for a hatchback.
Pagey
Private Member
A very good statement but I will say I didn’t know horses brush their teeth, I thought the saying was can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink you northerners are a funny lotI agree with some of that, but it's not the end if you can see it coming and do something about it. Which sort of goes with what I was saying about changing some of what you do and the way that you do it to make money.
The majority of my work now is on pre-war buildings. 38% of all the houses (leaving aside public, commercial etc) were built before WWII. Generally speaking, they are now worth more per square foot than the newer houses, need more upkeep, and fewer (reducing all the time) trades are familiar with how they were built, with what, and the right methods of repair and alteration.
That's somewhere between nine and ten million homes which, if you know what you're doing, you can rightfully charge more to work on. If you aren't familiar with working on them then you can learn. It really isn't rocket science, but the knowledge is vital t getting it right. It's also vital to be able to discuss things with the customer in a way that shows them you know what you're doing, and certainly more than Joe Bloggs who you're quoting against.
So the future's bright if you get yourself sorted in time.
Personally, I couldn't give a flying fcuk what happens with trades to be honest. I've tried on numerous occasions to pass on knowledge and information to apprentices and people new to the game. Sadly whilst I can lead the horse to water, I can't make it brush it's teeth. So I'll do my remaining 7 - 10 years and then enjoy the sh1t show whilst posting "I told you so you bone idle know it all wasters." all over the internet. Of course I will keep myself available for consultation, but as there'll be even fewer with the knowledge my rates will put a solicitor to shame.
Pagey
Private Member
With out sounding like I’m tongue punching your fart box it’s blokes like you that in 20-25 years all that knowledge will be lost and up to blokes my age to try pass what we have learnt off the older blokes we have learnt off I’ve had some real good teachers over the years and still speak to a few I don’t see many young lads coming through now when I met @superspread it was over 17 years ago learnt so much and he is always at end of phone if I got a query or if he has an idea in how to get over a problem if I’m stuck we met when he was my age then I don’t see any 17 year old round my way wanting to do it and it will Defo be a fine art instead of going to s**t imoI agree with some of that, but it's not the end if you can see it coming and do something about it. Which sort of goes with what I was saying about changing some of what you do and the way that you do it to make money.
The majority of my work now is on pre-war buildings. 38% of all the houses (leaving aside public, commercial etc) were built before WWII. Generally speaking, they are now worth more per square foot than the newer houses, need more upkeep, and fewer (reducing all the time) trades are familiar with how they were built, with what, and the right methods of repair and alteration.
That's somewhere between nine and ten million homes which, if you know what you're doing, you can rightfully charge more to work on. If you aren't familiar with working on them then you can learn. It really isn't rocket science, but the knowledge is vital t getting it right. It's also vital to be able to discuss things with the customer in a way that shows them you know what you're doing, and certainly more than Joe Bloggs who you're quoting against.
So the future's bright if you get yourself sorted in time.
Personally, I couldn't give a flying fcuk what happens with trades to be honest. I've tried on numerous occasions to pass on knowledge and information to apprentices and people new to the game. Sadly whilst I can lead the horse to water, I can't make it brush it's teeth. So I'll do my remaining 7 - 10 years and then enjoy the sh1t show whilst posting "I told you so you bone idle know it all wasters." all over the internet. Of course I will keep myself available for consultation, but as there'll be even fewer with the knowledge my rates will put a solicitor to shame.
D
Deleted member 23452
Guest
It really is such a shame that so much knowledge and information will be lost from all the trades. Add to that the lack of even the most basic DIY skills and there will be a massive increase in the prices that people will have to pay to get work done.