The Great British Gypsum Conspiracy

lurpak

Well-Known Member
#1
I won't be expecting any free bags of Pure Finish after this thread but here goes.

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The question on lots of plasterers mind right now is, are @BritishGypsum f**k**g about with the products?

Time and time again we are seeing and hearing people complaining of issues with finishing plasters. Tearing, flash setting, acting like bubble gum etc etc etc.. we also hear about the plasterboard being inferior too.

Here's a few of my observations in the past few months.

Plasterboard feels more bendy, noticeable on 8x4x12.5 sheets. It's as if it's weaker. Also score and snap often results in terrible breaks. Paper coming away very easy as if it's not bonded properly to the board.

Finishing plaster, board & multi. Completely random in terms of consistency. Some bags perfect, other bags a nightmare with the issues mentioned above.

Another thing I've noticed recently since the new bag design is both board and multi feels different when mixed, almost a slight feel of plasterboard adhesive to it. I've also noticed my bucket seems to be self-cleaning. It's the cleanest it's been in years.

It's possible they've been experimenting or recycling old stuff with other products such as board adhesive and bonding, but we wouldn't notice this as it does't get the attention to detail that skim does.

It's almost genius on @BritishGypsum 's part because if they mix in 10,000 s**t bags into various pallets, and note the batch number.. they just wait and see if people complain or not.. perhaps that's why they are so intent on getting ahold of the "bad bags" batch numbers when we contact them?

Also it makes us look like were going mad because one spread having no problems while another is, and in this game that only leads to one thing, the one having issues being told he's s**t.

We know they love to experiment with stuff which is fine, UniFinish, Bonding 60 etc.. I actually really rate the bonding60 and use it all the time. So I can't knock them for playing with their chemicals.

The real worry is that they are recycling s**t gear into finish.

Thoughts?
 

zombie

Private Member
#2
I won't be expecting any free bags of Pure Finish after this thread but here goes.

View attachment 28098

The question on lots of plasterers mind right now is, are @BritishGypsum f**k**g about with the products?

Time and time again we are seeing and hearing people complaining of issues with finishing plasters. Tearing, flash setting, acting like bubble gum etc etc etc.. we also hear about the plasterboard being inferior too.

Here's a few of my observations in the past few months.

Plasterboard feels more bendy, noticeable on 8x4x12.5 sheets. It's as if it's weaker. Also score and snap often results in terrible breaks. Paper coming away very easy as if it's not bonded properly to the board.

Finishing plaster, board & multi. Completely random in terms of consistency. Some bags perfect, other bags a nightmare with the issues mentioned above.

Another thing I've noticed recently since the new bag design is both board and multi feels different when mixed, almost a slight feel of plasterboard adhesive to it. I've also noticed my bucket seems to be self-cleaning. It's the cleanest it's been in years.

It's possible they've been experimenting or recycling old stuff with other products such as board adhesive and bonding, but we wouldn't notice this as it does't get the attention to detail that skim does.

It's almost genius on @BritishGypsum 's part because if they mix in 10,000 s**t bags into various pallets, and note the batch number.. they just wait and see if people complain or not.. perhaps that's why they are so intent on getting ahold of the "bad bags" batch numbers when we contact them?

Also it makes us look like were going mad because one spread having no problems while another is, and in this game that only leads to one thing, the one having issues being told he's s**t.

We know they love to experiment with stuff which is fine, UniFinish, Bonding 60 etc.. I actually really rate the bonding60 and use it all the time. So I can't knock them for playing with their chemicals.

The real worry is that they are recycling s**t gear into finish.

Thoughts?
Yep 100% bang on!!!!

Could have wrote that myself just not aswell and with lots of swearing!!!
 

paulf

Well-Known Member
#3
My local tip has a sperate skip for plaster and another for plasterboard that obviously gets recycled. That stuff probably goes back into the supply chain.
 
#8
I think were always going to struggle with them

No other competition for plastering products ?

Pespi/Coca-Cola War with bags of Skim
 

Nisus

Elite Member
#9
Out of date plaster gets added in very tiny amounts into new bags of plaster a bloke at BG told us this when we was all there in 2011/2012 and I'm sure @essexandy was next to me when he said it?
But when they came on here and I said this they denied it lol, I know what he said the out of date plaster smuggler :hueco:
 

paulf

Well-Known Member
#10
There doesn't appear to be any standard predetermining of the quality of gypsum going into bags either.
The suspicion being that the professional range contains raw gypsum and the donkey range contains recycled garbage. The recording of batch numbers is probably down to bg experimenting with ratios of raw gypsum to recycled gypsum.
 

essexandy

Private Member
#11
The suspicion being that the professional range contains raw gypsum and the donkey range contains recycled garbage. The recording of batch numbers is probably down to bg experimenting with ratios of raw gypsum to recycled gypsum.
That sounds plausible.
 
#12
That's frightening, whilst it doesn't affect me to any degree as I'm cr*p, to you guys that can be an absolute disaster
 

lurpak

Well-Known Member
#13
The suspicion being that the professional range contains raw gypsum and the donkey range contains recycled garbage. The recording of batch numbers is probably down to bg experimenting with ratios of raw gypsum to recycled gypsum.
My thoughts exactly. Trying to find the sweet spot of donkey/raw %
 

lurpak

Well-Known Member
#14
That's frightening, whilst it doesn't affect me to any degree as I'm cr*p, to you guys that can be an absolute disaster
You get to a point where you can finish anything. I bet if I needed to I could dig up some soil n mix it n finish it. The point is it shouldn't be a struggle and stress
 
#15
You should see me finish off a few packs of bourbon biscuits, get the lot finished before any flash setting even starts

You get to a point where you can finish anything. I bet if I needed to I could dig up some soil n mix it n finish it. The point is it shouldn't be a struggle and stress
 

zombie

Private Member
#16
You get to a point where you can finish anything. I bet if I needed to I could dig up some soil n mix it n finish it. The point is it shouldn't be a struggle and stress
More to the point they shouldnt be using us and our customers as guini pigs!

They should do there own testing and quality control not us!

There a set of c**ts that dont care!

Hence Unifail mark 1
Hence Unifail mark 2

Tested my fuckin arse it was!!!!!
 
#17
What I personally think they should be recycling there s**t in with the backing coats and DriWall adhesive not in the finishing plasterers that would make sense to me... I used to think it was down to storage at merchants but making that point how they are asking for batch numbers is like experimentation for them. Seeing how far they can push mixing. Multi for me lately has been even drying nice... The smaller areas especially.
Of course they want you too buy there most expensive gear it's a business the end of the day. You either except the expense or keep moaning part of me says its good that new products come along. I can also see how profit narrows down when pricing for other plasterers and customers aren't accepting the increase. We then have to become much better salesman.
 

lurpak

Well-Known Member
#18
What I personally think they should be recycling there s**t in with the backing coats and DriWall adhesive not in the finishing plasterers that would make sense to me... I used to think it was down to storage at merchants but making that point how they are asking for batch numbers is like experimentation for them. Seeing how far they can push mixing. Multi for me lately has been even drying nice... The smaller areas especially.
Of course they want you too buy there most expensive gear it's a business the end of the day. You either except the expense or keep moaning part of me says its good that new products come along. I can also see how profit narrows down when pricing for other plasterers and customers aren't accepting the increase. We then have to become much better salesman.
I suspect they probably do and perhaps that’s what inspired them to do the finish too. “Well nobody has noticed it in the bonding n dab, let’s try our biggest seller the skim”
 

John j

Well-Known Member
#19
@lurpak you two faced back stabbing bastards . I feel for Mike. Think you should give him his hat back.
 
#22
I suspect they probably do and perhaps that’s what inspired them to do the finish too. “Well nobody has noticed it in the bonding n dab, let’s try our biggest seller the skim”
Probably pushing you more towards the premium gear. In all honesty mate I'm not even bothered anymore.. It is what it is.
 

paulf

Well-Known Member
#23
Its probably the reason why pure is as rare as hens teeth because if everybody was using it then it to would end up being recycled and find its way back into the supply chain. That would mean it would go the same as multi and would no longer be a premium product.
 

reeves1985

Well-Known Member
#24
Ive noticedthe boards almost giving the impession of being damp.
I've been reliably told that the gypsum that's no ground small enough for finish is being used and recycled intoo the boards and I've seen a lot of pink boards. Suggesting this is true.

Also been Told that they now have a recycling duty due to eu law which the stuff is getting recycled back into multi
 

paulf

Well-Known Member
#25
BG's motto should be "yesterday's plaster today".
Now we know why its called "Pure" finish ie free from adulterants.
 
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#26
You know what, its a relief to hear this. I was convincing myself I was being paranoid.

Personally I've noticed it being more prone to tearing later on. Like on last trowel or polish. I know how to get round tearing issues but like others said, we shouldn't have to. With experience you can get a finish on almost anything, but sometimes seems like much harder work than before. Also if it tears right at the very end and you have no wet muck left and it's too far gone this can affect the final appearance when dry (still paints up just as good but might not look quite as perfectly smooth before).

Have found irregularities in setting times as well. Noticeable when going over something with guaranteed suction (like plasterboard). Some hanging around forever and some going off much faster.

I know what I'm doing so can get always get over it and get a good finish but when it starts to affect your working times and final finish I start wondering if a good alternative finishing plaster came out, would I use that instead....
 

zolco

Private Member
#27
BG skim is the cheapest material out there, as every manufacturer they obviously been pushed by legislation to recycle more and more. If you want better gear you have to pay a little extra. Gypsum skim in the continent about 30 quid a bag, hence no other major brand selling theirs here in the UK to offer alternatives.
Cheap material prices keep labour and quality at mediocre at best.
 
#28
I really don’t understand why there’s no competition in the manufacturing of plaster. Everything nowadays has a rival. Bg have ya by the balls.. so they can do what they like cos they no your going back the next day for more gear. There’s clearly a really noticeable difference with this pure plaster an maybe that’s what bg are wanting. Less sales in the old stuff an more in the pure (more profit) it’s a clever way to hike your price up. But just drip feeding it on the market as there non around to buy. The board finish as been flashing on my for a while but I’ve just worked with it. Just got to get on with it as they say.
 

essexandy

Private Member
#29
I really don’t understand why there’s no competition in the manufacturing of plaster. Everything nowadays has a rival. Bg have ya by the balls.. so they can do what they like cos they no your going back the next day for more gear. There’s clearly a really noticeable difference with this pure plaster an maybe that’s what bg are wanting. Less sales in the old stuff an more in the pure (more profit) it’s a clever way to hike your price up. But just drip feeding it on the market as there non around to buy. The board finish as been flashing on my for a while but I’ve just worked with it. Just got to get on with it as they say.
If everyone had to pay £20 for a bag of decent gear it wouldn't bother me one jot, as it would still be a level playing field when pricing up.
I must say that our recent pallet of Board Finish has been better and than using Multifinish, but Jewsons just won't stock it and that's a bloody pain in the arse.
 

John j

Well-Known Member
#30
If everyone had to pay £20 for a bag of decent gear it wouldn't bother me one jot, as it would still be a level playing field when pricing up.
I must say that our recent pallet of Board Finish has been better and than using Multifinish, but Jewsons just won't stock it and that's a bloody pain in the arse.
Very rare I use multi. Most of time I get asked what i want so all ways go for board.
 
#31
Its no secret that they recycle the board but they seem a bit talk to the hand when asked about the plaster itself. Deffo something changed in it in my opinion. Its like opening a lucky bag and not knowing what you're going to get. Showing my age there :(

 

John j

Well-Known Member
#32
Its no secret that they recycle the board but they seem a bit talk to the hand when asked about the plaster itself. Deffo something changed in it in my opinion. Its like opening a lucky bag and not knowing what you're going to get. Showing my age there :(

So gis ye leftover n well sell you it back hmmm
 
#33
I did an A-level in economics back at college. Wish I could go back now and use this as a textbook example of why a monopoly is a bad thing and why we need competiton.

There is no real competition to BG in UK. They could do whatever they like and know that we have no choice but to keep coming back. Competition forces companies to strive to be better than each other in terms of price, quality, etc. Competition is a good thing for the consumer.

This is exactly what the competition and markets authority was made for and is designed to prevent. Sadly there is no competition so probably not a lot they can do unless enough of us complain then they are meant to step in and at least ensure quality control, etc. if no proper competition. Wonder if that would actually happen or not though. Public organisations like that always struggling for resources.

Ironically they have no competition either to encourage them to do a better job!
 
#35
I did an A-level in economics back at college. Wish I could go back now and use this as a textbook example of why a monopoly is a bad thing and why we need competiton.

There is no real competition to BG in UK. They could do whatever they like and know that we have no choice but to keep coming back. Competition forces companies to strive to be better than each other in terms of price, quality, etc. Competition is a good thing for the consumer.

This is exactly what the competition and markets authority was made for and is designed to prevent. Sadly there is no competition so probably not a lot they can do unless enough of us complain then they are meant to step in and at least ensure quality control, etc. if no proper competition. Wonder if that would actually happen or not though. Public organisations like that always struggling for resources.

Ironically they have no competition either to encourage them to do a better job!
I agree and unfortunately don't think it's ever going to change. Especially when we leave the EU when any imports would be subject to import duties as well. I'm not being political there as its a plastering forum but it is the case. I've read through this thread and the letter to british gypsum mike and there isn't one response from them. That's the contempt with which they hold their core customer base. They should rebrand to British Gysum because that's the consistency of the gear of late. I would love to drag Mike kicking and screaming by his hair to spend a day on the tools then kick him out the van in the middle of nowhere. Politeness doesn't cost anything