Payment disputes

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john simpson

john simpson

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Over the years I've found the actual plastering the easy part of the game , its the pricing and getting paid properly that's the hard bit!

A thread with suggestions might help others who find themselves underpaid etc.

In my experience its builders who don't pay so try to only work for builders with a good reputation or that you've worked for before.
Standard practice is to get you in deeper with back-payments , even if only on a daily rate , for example you start on a Monday and come Friday they might say they havent had a chance to get you on the books or get the QS to measure up etc , it will all be sorted next Friday , already in that scenario you are 2 weeks wages out.
Another one is a large priced job , they will say they havent had a chance to measure and will offer a smaller amount and sort the rest next week blah blah.
Half the time things work out ok but be careful as you will always be on the worst end of negotiations and may have to accept less than agreed.

Clients are mostly dead on , payment with them can be problematic when then dont understand the extras or schedule , when working direct always presume the client is clueless and stay in constant contact with them explaining everything and ensuring they are happy etc. Explain your payment arrangements , 20% up front for materials or whatever , payment in full at completion or percentage payments as the work is being done.
If things change with the work then its essential that you explain and detail any extras , clients like everyone else don't like larger bills then expected!

When you don't get paid its very tempting to lose the rag and start arguing or to take all the plaster off the walls etc or lift the builders property
If you do this then you run the risk of being prosecuted.
Best to gather evidence of work done , take a few photos , materials delivery notes , just whatever.
Try to negotiate with the other party and settle the matter.
If that fails then the small claims court can be used , plenty of information online about all that.

Anyone any advice for others or stories of non-payment?

I'm small fry , i lost £3000 on a job once at Xmas with a young family , i didnt sleep for months!
I know loads of guys dealing with ten times that amount on a regular basis , scary!
 
Courts aren't worth the hassle - know a few lads who used small claims, still didnt get there money and they were sparks and had done nothing wrong ....

If a ltd firm knocks me its as simple as they get a visit paid to there home/ work daily .... ' making a scene'

If a sole trader knocks me or a builder he gets a cut off date then its passed to some not so nice people .... many ways to sort this one out ;)...

People who think they can f**k hard working lads about on payment should get what they deserve !!

Touch wood ive never had any non payers but I wouldn't let it go if it was £100 or £10000....
 
Courts aren't worth the hassle - know a few lads who used small claims, still didnt get there money and they were sparks and had done nothing wrong ....


What was the verdict? Never had to use small claims myself but surely if the work has been done they have to pay?

Good wee book on the politics of it all , free on Amazon,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ragged-Tro.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

written over 100 years ago on a building site and im sure you will recognise some of the practices still at work today
 
we are not owed a penny from anyone. if the customer want something extra we always give them a quote for the extra work on the spot.most of our customers are not bothered about a few hundred quid. we would always go the extra yard for any customer.
the work must be left spotless clean and of high quality.
all i ever hear are complaints of some fool that they employed who made a hell of a mess, stunk of drink and could not plaster to a required standard.
 
john simpson said:
Courts aren't worth the hassle - know a few lads who used small claims, still didnt get there money and they were sparks and had done nothing wrong ....


What was the verdict? Never had to use small claims myself but surely if the work has been done they have to pay?

Good wee book on the politics of it all , free on Amazon,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ragged-Tro.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

written over 100 years ago on a building site and im sure you will recognise some of the practices still at work today
Click to expand...
I thought socialism had died a death ... Blame Maggie!
 
I would suggest a little caution in trying the "direct" approach. These things can escalate at an exponential rate, so you have to ask yourself how far you're prepared to go. If you're thinking in terms of anything less than all the way then the issue isn't worth it and you really shouldn't start down that road.

By far the best solution is to avoid having any dealings with w4nkers.
 
This is the very reason I don't work for builders, large commercial outfits or chumps that dry lined for 6 months, struggled with manual labour and talked his way into getting council contracts and set up a firm.

I pick and choose my customers and touch wood I'm doing ok.

The "20%" thing wouldn't work and you'd run the risk off giving jobs to your competition.

I say this over and over again on here, I won't touch any site work again, begging for your wages is not for me, the way site lads are treated, plasterers especially, is f**k**g disgusting and if you disagree with that statement and your working on site you are very lucky.

Cover your ass as best you can, do a good job that you'd happily stand up in court and defend and don't ever let anybody get you in a position where your skint, working and not getting paid up.
 
Someone tried to do me for £3k in 2012 because they assumed I was moving abroad and "hoped" they could hold out until I was gone.

I never gave up, never stopped ringing, visiting there poxy little £40 a week office only to be ignored and fobbed off, the outfit was run by a fat ex-plasterer and his family who 'thought' they knew everything, paid by cheque every 2 weeks if you could track him down on a Friday.

They had contracts with FHM doing council work.

I eventually got my money after telling him I was going to rip out the £200,000 cottages I'd plastered for him (the funny thing was, he'd sent me on this posh site because he thought I was a decent spread, so there was no issue over quality)

He paid me £300 short, so a few days before I left for NZ, I put on my FHM hi vis, emptied my van, drove to Nottingham walked into his lock up full of FHM guys and his subbies without saying a word to anyone.

I walked out with the approximate following.

25 lengths of 3 metre coving.
20 bottles of PVA
All the dust sheets
3 boxes of 24 rolls of scrim
All the gorilla tubs
About 5 tubs of waterproof tile adhesive (for the coving)
20 rolls of carpet protector (the good stuff that sticks)

I still haven't used all that and bought some scrim for the first time in 3 years about a month ago.

Alarm bells rung when I first started working for the fat c**t when he changed his mobile number twice in 2 weeks, nobody in business does that.
 
mac_plastering said:
Last thing before I go to the pub, honest.

If he'd have done that to me at a time I had a mortgage to pay and kids to feed, I would have dragged him down his drive by his jaw with a claw hammer and set fire to the c**t.
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Exactly.
It's also a reason I dislike some posts on here regarding telling other people to work on 14, 30 days then send an invoice etc.
Everyone has individual circumstances.
When the jobs done - pay.
If everyone worked to that rule there would be no need for credit anywhere.
 
Some great posts there , i totally agree mac plastering , i take the same approach myself.
Point of the thread is to highlight to the younger plasterers that its not all about how good you are , its about being proud of your trade and the time invested to be good at it , dont undersell yourself or work for stupid rates for the wrong people.
 
I say this over and over again on here, I won't touch any site work again, begging for your wages is not for me, the way site lads are treated, plasterers especially, is f**k**g disgusting and if you disagree with that statement and your working on site you are very lucky.



Fecking begging is exactly what site work is , always have you in a bad spot the way i described and have you begging for what's rightfully yours.
 
mac_plastering said:
This is the very reason I don't work for builders, large commercial outfits or chumps that dry lined for 6 months, struggled with manual labour and talked his way into getting council contracts and set up a firm.

I pick and choose my customers and touch wood I'm doing ok.

The "20%" thing wouldn't work and you'd run the risk off giving jobs to your competition.

I say this over and over again on here, I won't touch any site work again, begging for your wages is not for me, the way site lads are treated, plasterers especially, is f**k**g disgusting and if you disagree with that statement and your working on site you are very lucky.

Cover your ass as best you can, do a good job that you'd happily stand up in court and defend and don't ever let anybody get you in a position where your skint, working and not getting paid up.
Click to expand...


So very true...Plasterers on site are treated the worst out of any trade....It's all dog eat dog fighting over materials and water and trying to grab all the work....
 
john simpson said:
Some great posts there , i totally agree mac plastering , i take the same approach myself.
Point of the thread is to highlight to the younger plasterers that its not all about how good you are , its about being proud of your trade and the time invested to be good at it , dont undersell yourself or work for stupid rates for the wrong people.
Click to expand...

I agree john but sometimes when you have a mortgage and kid's you have to take what's there.
 
BigK said:
Exactly.
It's also a reason I dislike some posts on here regarding telling other people to work on 14, 30 days then send an invoice etc.
Everyone has individual circumstances.
When the jobs done - pay.
If everyone worked to that rule there would be no need for credit anywhere.
Click to expand...

If your in the domestic scene payment should be straight awsy, if your work for developers etc on supply and fit your in another work if you think they settle up straight away, it's the same principal as any other business and 30 days credit is applied.
 
I'm fully aware of that owls, although someone said to a fella doing domestics, 'if you can't work on 30 days you shouldn't be in business'

That was the tosh I was referring to.
 
What ever works for each other I guess, I tend to give everyone 30 days from invoice as good grace, most domestic projects settle before then, but that's what I state and there's an element of truth in that, in that build cash flow into your business then it's not an issue. I just think handing an invoice on the day you finish looks A tad desperate, but everyone operates diffident.
 
We do a mix of domestic and commercial, alot of the time I am to busy running around pricing, carrying out the work and organising lads that the invoicing is often the last priority, many customers don't receive an invoice until 2-4 weeks after completion.
 
Domestics are all invoiced within a day of completion for me ..... nothing desperate wanting to be paid when done and cut out all the time a few spend chasing after 30 days ..

Just creating more work for yourself imo but like has been said people work diff ways .... for me why would I want to drive to a customers house after a few weeks for my money ..... no thanks as when you add it up I bet you spend half a day a month getting all your invoices in !!
 
It seems that way to you maybe, as you work for a lot of developers, supply & fit.
As you suggest domestic work is a completely different animal, mostly where a family are trying to get a job done as cheap as possible, in that circumstance you shouldn't have to wait at all. Certainly, you shouldn't have the job finished, cleaned up and driving off with the client waving you goodbye without a mention of payment, that's clearly just bad manners, I wouldn't have the neck to do it and I don't expect to be treated as such.
I have done joband not got paid for six months ( well into four figures) but I didn't mind as client asked & explained everything clearly before I got a tool out.

All my work is mostly self builds and small builders & is paid on completion.
And if they want to start talking readies, it's periodic payment.
I find if they've any problem with that then they aren't keen on paying you at all.
 
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