Patching and skimming for kitchen refurbs.

imago

Private Member
#1
I presume a few of you work for/with kitchen fitters (refits not extensions). I guess it'd be mostly filling chases, skimming and boarding ceilings. What's an average time for the plastering work on those sort of jobs?

I'm working on two or three days in an empty room with all the first fix done. A day for boarding and filling chases, another day for bonding and prep, then a day for skimming. Obviously it's going to vary on the size, shape and complexity of the room, but as a base time does that sound about right?

I'm talking about the high end of finish too, rather than the 'smash it out' approach, and allowing some time for carting gear in etc.
 
#3
Did this one yesterday. I work alone and my process is. Fill big holes/chases immediately with bonding 60. Pva all walls. Overboard ceiling. Bonding 60 tight coat walls where needed. Cup of tea. Skim in 1 gauge as small kitchen.

If its a massive kitchen id prep it all on day 1 then skim next day 2 gauges.

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#7
Two to three days, no need to kill yourself if the moneys right, but 2 days usually max for a big kitchen day to sort the chases boarding and get ceiling in, second day for walls
 

imago

Private Member
#8
No, 2 max. On average 1. Never 3
To put the stuff on the walls/ceiling, but I'm looking at a number for the whole thing plus a bit of wriggle room. Ordering and collecting the materials, getting it on site, doing the work, clean up (properly) afterwards, no rushing around and no working past 16:30.

If it's handy to do it in two days then that's great, but I'll allow three for quoting and timing. I don't quote to win on price, so I've no need to cut things to the bone.
 

zombie

Private Member
#9
@imago weve had a kitchen contract for 20 years.

We always allow 3 days for 1 man though obviously there are times when its 1 2 or even 4 days required.

Like everything all depends on work involved.

We walk in blind might be boarding ceilings, studding out rsjs then fireboard,

We may have to float the walls first, board couple of walls, square up all reveals & create sills & address bifold/ french doors. Bond chases, timber out any pipework then board them etc.

Most kitchens these days we do are also knock throughs with essentialy 2 rooms to sort.

I can normaly skim half a house on a newbuild for the same time it takes to sort most that we have to do.
 
#10
To put the stuff on the walls/ceiling, but I'm looking at a number for the whole thing plus a bit of wriggle room. Ordering and collecting the materials, getting it on site, doing the work, clean up (properly) afterwards, no rushing around and no working past 16:30.

If it's handy to do it in two days then that's great, but I'll allow three for quoting and timing. I don't quote to win on price, so I've no need to cut things to the bone.
I'm often the most expensive quote but it doesn't seem to affect my workload.

I usually get materials the day before so vans loaded ready to go, hate faffing about doing it on the way to a job..

Heres a few recent ones, this one was a 3 day'r massive kitchen and dina, board and skim.

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Majority of them are like these tho, but all different in there own ways. Some are in good kick and just need a bit of bonding, others have block work need to be floated out to existing wall etc.
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Little treat for you @LarryTheLag bit of insight into the easy domestic piggy world
 
#11
@imago weve had a kitchen contract for 20 years.

We always allow 3 days for 1 man though obviously there are times when its 1 2 or even 4 days required.

Like everything all depends on work involved.

We walk in blind might be boarding ceilings, studding out rsjs then fireboard,

We may have to float the walls first, board couple of walls, square up all reveals & create sills & address bifold/ french doors. Bond chases, timber out any pipework then board them etc.

Most kitchens these days we do are also knock throughs with essentialy 2 rooms to sort.

I can normaly skim half a house on a newbuild for the same time it takes to sort most that we have to do.

Exactly, it's an impossible question really as they are all so different.
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#12
2-3 days, never just a day if it involves boarding and making good, although I think Lurpak does a good job, even when it's not just artex, I've no interest in working that fast! Plod along and if anything goes wrong or there's a bit more than anticipated you have the time to sort it.
 
#13
2-3 days, never just a day if it involves boarding and making good, although I think Lurpak does a good job, even when it's not just artex, I've no interest in working that fast! Plod along and if anything goes wrong or there's a bit more than anticipated you have the time to sort it.
If @ChrispyUK ever grows a pair and comes with me for a day, i don't rush mate lol. I plod but I just have a system in place. I don't smoke. I don't hardly stop and drink tea etc. I just get on with it. Rather use the time spent faffing about at work, faffing about at home with me toddler.
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#14
Unless kitchens massive, split in two, needs floating etc/ well then it can take a lot longer.. but your average making good for kitchen fitters for standard size 2-3 days
 
#15
Unless kitchens massive, split in two, needs floating etc/ well then it can take a lot longer.. but your average making good for kitchen fitters for standard size 2-3 days
Yep that's about right, tight fitter pays 150 a day so its 3 days. on price it's 1 day lol
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#16
If @ChrispyUK ever grows a pair and comes with me for a day, i don't rush mate lol. I plod but I just have a system in place. I don't smoke. I don't hardly stop and drink tea etc. I just get on with it. Rather use the time spent faffing about at work, faffing about at home with me toddler.
Im only 5'5" so what you think is a standard room.. I walk in and need binoculars just to see the ceiling, everything is twice as much work I'm sure! I wish I was a normal person.
 
#17
Im only 5'5" so what you think is a standard room.. I walk in and need binoculars just to see the ceiling, everything is twice as much work I'm sure! I wish I was a normal person.
6ft on button . i know a spread whos about 6'7 and does't need hopup for most ceilings lol
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#18
I need about three steps just to get to the summit of one of my hop ups, keeps you fit though! :boxeador:
 

imago

Private Member
#19
I'm often the most expensive quote but it doesn't seem to affect my workload.

I usually get materials the day before so vans loaded ready to go, hate faffing about doing it on the way to a job..
It's stuff like that which I need to include in the price/time for the overall job. If I spend half a day running around I need to make sure it's covered. I've been a bit lax with giving away time recently, it's a job not a hobby so if it's work related it's chargeable. (y)
 
#20
It's stuff like that which I need to include in the price/time for the overall job. If I spend half a day running around I need to make sure it's covered. I've been a bit lax with giving away time recently, it's a job not a hobby so if it's work related it's chargeable. (y)
Absolutely. But if charging for every little thing, make sure the works flawless :p

Some things I see as part and parcel, like getting materials. I've done jobs where other spreads have quoted and given the customer a list of what they need to grab from wickes in their audi s5 lol. So unprofessional
 

imago

Private Member
#21
@imago weve had a kitchen contract for 20 years.

We always allow 3 days for 1 man though obviously there are times when its 1 2 or even 4 days required.

Like everything all depends on work involved.

We walk in blind might be boarding ceilings, studding out rsjs then fireboard,

We may have to float the walls first, board couple of walls, square up all reveals & create sills & address bifold/ french doors. Bond chases, timber out any pipework then board them etc.

Most kitchens these days we do are also knock throughs with essentialy 2 rooms to sort.

I can normaly skim half a house on a newbuild for the same time it takes to sort most that we have to do.
Yeah each job gets priced on the obvious like size, shape, complexity, plus the other stuff. Things like access can have a big impact on time, how far way the room is from the van, narrow doors, steep awkward stairs, and so on.

I just needed to make sure that the starting point was right. So I'll take three days as a minimum for plastering and then go from there. (y)
 
#22
They hate me at local wickes as i use the click and collect service . saves so much time.
 
#23
Yeah each job gets priced on the obvious like size, shape, complexity, plus the other stuff. Things like access can have a big impact on time, how far way the room is from the van, narrow doors, steep awkward stairs, and so on.

I just needed to make sure that the starting point was right. So I'll take three days as a minimum for plastering and then go from there. (y)
My head would hurt considering all that, but you are right, it should be taken into consideration when quoting. Any pics of the kitchen?
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#24
I also think getting materials is just part and parcel of the job so that's included regardless.. I get first thing in morning or night before, or atleast most of what I need if I'm unsure of quantity as not measured for boards etc/
 

ChrispyUK

Well-Known Member
#25
If @ChrispyUK ever grows a pair and comes with me for a day, i don't rush mate lol. I plod but I just have a system in place. I don't smoke. I don't hardly stop and drink tea etc. I just get on with it. Rather use the time spent faffing about at work, faffing about at home with me toddler.
You may want to rephrase that last sentence! :D
 
Love CBD

McBentLegs

Active Member
#26
If we are talking access and arsehole shapes then always charge a lot more, I generally won't work in anything over two stories high or if I have to park miles away, or I charge ridiculous rates, no time for that s**t if you got no labourer! If people want to live in s**t properties they need to suffer, not us tradesmen!
 

imago

Private Member
#28
My head would hurt considering all that, but you are right, it should be taken into consideration when quoting. Any pics of the kitchen?
It's not for a specific kitchen, just part of the next year plan. I want to do fewer 'big' jobs like extensions and full refurbs, and more individual short jobs.

Time taken for materials, cut lists, fabrication etc needs to be included otherwise your real rates drop like a stone. Plus the way I tend to work with plasterers plumbers etc is to aks them what they want, then have it sitting there waiting when they arrive. Doing it that way may save them half a day or a day, but it costs me that time and my time isn't free anymore than theirs is. (y)
 

imago

Private Member
#29
If we are talking access and arsehole shapes then always charge a lot more, I generally won't work in anything over two stories high or if I have to park miles away, or I charge ridiculous rates, no time for that s**t if you got no labourer! If people want to live in s**t properties they need to suffer, not us tradesmen!
Totally agree, I don't do flats at all, ever. Fcuk that noise! Sometimes we'll do cottages for example, they're all narrow doors, low ceilings and tiny staircases. So any boards on the first floor have to be 6' x 3' which makes the per square metre price slightly higher. It also means that it takes much longer getting stuff in, usually made worse by not having a driveway close to the door etc.

It all needs to be factored in for a proper price.
 
#30
I must confess I f**k*d up bad once few years ago. I quoted a job blind was too busy to go look. double bedroom board and skim. I seen the pictures of it.

Me and lab turned up ready to go with 8x4 boards. Couldn't get them upstairs. Ended up having to cut them in half length ways and pass them up through the window.
 
Love CBD

imago

Private Member
#31
I also think getting materials is just part and parcel of the job so that's included regardless.. I get first thing in morning or night before, or atleast most of what I need if I'm unsure of quantity as not measured for boards etc/
It's the little things that make a difference when you add them up. Collecting materials for example, anything from anywhere has a delivery cost. It doesn't matter if you put 10% on the materials, or charge a flat fee, or charge for the time, but you need to allow for it.

If you charge £150 for a day rate of 8 hours, but you spend two hours the evening before collecting gear and do five miles round trip for it you are losing money. Two hours £37:50, plus five miles at 40 pence a mile (running costs) £2, so you've effectively given away £40:00 on one two day job, which means your gross day rate has gone down to £130 a day.

If your day rate was £150, and you're keeping busy, how would you react if someone asked you to work for £130?
 

imago

Private Member
#32
I must confess I f**k*d up bad once few years ago. I quoted a job blind was too busy to go look. double bedroom board and skim. I seen the pictures of it.

Me and lab turned up ready to go with 8x4 boards. Couldn't get them upstairs. Ended up having to cut them in half length ways and pass them up through the window.
We've all had those jobs, stings a bit when you realise you've no one to blame but yourself. :LOL:
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#33
It's the little things that make a difference when you add them up. Collecting materials for example, anything from anywhere has a delivery cost. It doesn't matter if you put 10% on the materials, or charge a flat fee, or charge for the time, but you need to allow for it.

If you charge £150 for a day rate of 8 hours, but you spend two hours the evening before collecting gear and do five miles round trip for it you are losing money. Two hours £37:50, plus five miles at 40 pence a mile (running costs) £2, so you've effectively given away £40:00 on one two day job, which means your gross day rate has gone down to £130 a day.

If your day rate was £150, and you're keeping busy, how would you react if someone asked you to work for £130?
I completely agree, I just don't work stuff out like that, I always charge more for materials than I actually need so if I work a job out at £200 a day I usually walk away with £210-220.. so it's the same principle I guess! I rarely measure jobs up unless it's a massive job, just do it by eye and be generous about it, means I'm near enough always quids in.
 
#34
fuk 150 a day, kitchen yesterday 400 labour done in day. also made on materials to cover collecting them and fuel and breakfast.
 

McBentLegs

Active Member
#35
If I did that in a day I'd want £400 also! Bare minimum £180 for me and only if plodding along!