Parex or Lime Render?

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Plasteringrooky

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Hello All,

I'm looking to have a house rendered, it's constructed in Porotherm monomur (Large clay bricks/blocks). I've been recommended to use a Parex product such as Parlumiere or Monorex. As far as I can see these products are generally Hydraulic Limes (NHL3.5) mixed with sand and colourants.

I don't mind paying for the guys to do the work, but would like to reduce the cost of the materials. The Parex products are coming in at about £10 for 25kgs, covering 1-2m2. I can buy NHL3.5 35kgs for about the same price, mix it with sand (cheap enough) to cover more than 5 times the area.

Am I missing something here or is it cheaper to buy the serpate components and mix yourself to end up with a comparative product?

cj
 
If you think you can mix a comparative product in your back garden go for it, welcome to the forum by the way , you may find you get a better response if you introduce your self first, with a little back ground info, what level of plasterer?, time served?, courser?, general ability? etc etc etc
 
Sorry for not introducing myself properly.

I might get shot-down for this a bit. My background is as follows, started life as a joiner, moved into drawing office, trained building surveyor, had building company for 10 years now self-building house to live in. When I say selfbuild, I mean everything from design through to finish, except plastering. Plastering is the only trade I'm not completely happy tackling.

The reason for the question, I was alittle-taken-aback by the price of the ready mixed lime render systems. Why are they so expensive? I personally would rather spend the extra on securing good trade.

I suppose the question is - Is there something other than NHL, Sand and Colourant in the bagged products that warrent the 3-400% increase in price?
 
consistency... graded washed and blended aggregates... reinforcing fibres... ease of mixing.... peace of mind... odd additives like plasticiser, salt neutraliser, all that stuff... depending on the product....
 
Plasteringrooky said:
Sorry for not introducing myself properly.

I might get shot-down for this a bit. My background is as follows, started life as a joiner, moved into drawing office, trained building surveyor, had building company for 10 years now self-building house to live in. When I say selfbuild, I mean everything from design through to finish, except plastering. Plastering is the only trade I'm not completely happy tackling.

The reason for the question, I was alittle-taken-aback by the price of the ready mixed lime render systems. Why are they so expensive? I personally would rather spend the extra on securing good trade.

I suppose the question is - Is there something other than NHL, Sand and Colourant in the bagged products that warrent the 3-400% increase in price?
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Peace of mind that they are a tried and tested product and the main concern would be operator error,( which you have some control over) where as if you try to blend yourself you are open to too many variables. So if you use an approved contractor and quality product then you could possibly have the peace of mind of a ten year guarantee, but with your level of expertise i would of thought that this was more than apparent, i suppose you are like the next man , always looking for the cheaper option, but lets put it into perspective, Skoda or Porche, they both perform well but which one is most likely to stay on the road on a tight corner, (wow what an analogy, i impress my self some times LOL ) but as you say they are basically a render and i still pass rendering/pebbledashing jobs in my area that i did 20 + years ago, and are still looking good, but at the end of the day the choice is yours, but my advice would be to move with the times and embrace new technology's
 
warriorupnorth said:
Peace of mind that they are a tried and tested product and the main concern would be operator error,( which you have some control over) where as if you try to blend yourself you are open to too many variables. So if you use an approved contractor and quality product then you could possibly have the peace of mind of a ten year guarantee, but with your level of expertise i would of thought that this was more than apparent, i suppose you are like the next man , always looking for the cheaper option, but lets put it into perspective, Skoda or Porche, they both perform well but which one is most likely to stay on the road on a tight corner, (wow what an analogy, i impress my self some times LOL ) but as you say they are basically a render and i still pass rendering/pebbledashing jobs in my area that i did 20 + years ago, and are still looking good, but at the end of the day the choice is yours, but my advice would be to move with the times and embrace new technology's
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I'm not looking for the cheaper option, just rather pay where it counts, in professionalism. Do you think that batch processing a product as a 'universal' solution is better that utilising the local knowledge of professional trades? For this project I'll be buying the materials and contracting labour only. I'd rather pay for the labour than materials. Would you be interested in doing some rendering for me 20+ years ;-)
 
Plasteringrooky said:
I'm not looking for the cheaper option, just rather pay where it counts, in professionalism. Do you think that batch processing a product as a 'universal' solution is better that utilising the local knowledge of professional trades? For this project I'll be buying the materials and contracting labour only. I'd rather pay for the labour than materials. Would you be interested in doing some rendering for me 20+ years ;-)
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wheres goody when you need him
 
Plasteringrooky
We all have to embrace modern renders this is the way and the future. For sure the prices seem very high when compared to sand and cement . You cannot
compare the two.
 
im not one with masses of experience in prebagged stuff mate but these lads are, warrior, blones, simply etc... theyve all got projection machines...
what you lose on material cost youll prolly save in labour (dont quote me on that) cos these guys'll just bung the stuff in a machine, spray it on and be gone before youve been down the bank...
well, maybe not gone, prolly cleaned up and packed away though...
 
Plasteringrooky said:
I'm not looking for the cheaper option, just rather pay where it counts, in professionalism. Do you think that batch processing a product as a 'universal' solution is better that utilising the local knowledge of professional trades? For this project I'll be buying the materials and contracting labour only. I'd rather pay for the labour than materials. Would you be interested in doing some rendering for me 20+ years ;-)
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Sorry you seem to be contradicting your self (or am i missing some thing)

"I don't mind paying for the guys to do the work, but would like to reduce the cost of the materials. The Parex products are coming in at about £10 for 25kgs, covering 1-2m2. I can buy NHL3.5 35kgs for about the same price, mix it with sand (cheap
enough) to cover more than 5 times the area.

Am I missing something here or is it cheaper to buy the serpate components and mix yourself to end up with a comparative product? "

in my opinion (and i am sure many will endorse this) but if cost is really not the issue, and peace of mind is, then why would you consider mixing your own product to try and re-create one that has been tried and tested through out the years and will perform more than adequately without the hassle of blending your self and running the risk of a failed render, or you could go old school and apply a traditional lime render , but be prepared to pay for it , cos it won't come cheap
 
Plasteringrooky said:
I can see an 'I'll get mi coat' moment coming on!
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Not at all my friend , if any thing we much prefer challenging questions than the usual run of the mill stuff (no disrespect to the newer guy to the trade) so thanks for your posts, and i am sure a few more of the boys will be along in the next few days to interact with your self on this very interesting topic, don't be put off with some of the comments that you may receive over the next few days, they are a good bunch and very informative when the need arises
 
Ive been trying to get my twopennyworth in here but in all fairness Warriour has said it all. I suppose prebagged is the way forward especialy if big areas and machined on though hand batched lime morters have been used for centuries.Have a look at the St Astier site and have a look at what they offer then do what you have been trained to do and compare costs.
 
For the external rendering, I think the general consensus to go with the prebagged machine applied render is sound advice, so I’ll look into it further. I’ll probably have a go at doing some smaller areas internally with a sponge finished lime render from a NHL mix, as I’ve always wanted to have a dabble anyway.

Many thanks for all the advice guys. I’ve had a look at some of the photo’s of your work and some are very impressive.

A special thanks to warrior for not taking me apart, it could have been soooo easy!

If I have any further questions I hope I can come back and quiz you further.

Once again thanks to all.

cj
 
I WILL get shot to pieces for this, BUT WHY do people always want to cut the cost of the renders on there building, this is the first thing someone or they will see as long as they live there , they think nothing of spending an arm and let on the newest sound system to be installed, or some bspkoke kitchen or bathroom which some designer has his name on. pay the money mate, its your house and your going to be starring at it for years.
 
simplybesty said:
I WILL get shot to pieces for this, BUT WHY do people always want to cut the cost of the renders on there building, this is the first thing someone or they will see as long as they live there , they think nothing of spending an arm and let on the newest sound system to be installed, or some bspkoke kitchen or bathroom which some designer has his name on. pay the money mate, its your house and your going to be starring at it for years.
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Correct besty, that's exactly why it's the only element of the build that I always envisaged paying to have done. It's the only element I've had a quote for. I'm happy to do all the other trades except the rendering. I've already rendered the garage in cement/lime/sand as I'm able to lay my hands on a spray machine, however, the house is a different matter.

As I'm hoping to put some detailing and design into the render finish i.e around windows, I was questioning if I could somehow reduce material costs and use the saving to make more use of the labour for detailing. I was just a little suprised at the cost of the materials having never had the need to specify/work with it before. After asking the question on here, I now realise why the quotes I've had are the price they are and why the materials are more expensive and possibly worth the extra.

As for designer furniture, kitchen, staircase, doors, I'll be making on site as the timber available here is fantastic and the time spent in the joinery shop will come in very handy. No Calvin Klein Y's here mate.
 
be nice to see the development and the finished pics mate, not takin the mickey... all good comin from oldschool blokes with enough sense to question whether theyre gettin ripped off and the skill and experience to make an informed decision... :RpS_thumbup:
 
Chris W said:
be nice to see the development and the finished pics mate, not takin the mickey... all good comin from oldschool blokes with enough sense to question whether theyre gettin ripped off and the skill and experience to make an informed decision... :RpS_thumbup:
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Cheers buddy, Plastering is one of those things that ALL men feel like having a go at, but I hope I know when to play and when to take it serious. It's not a case of being ripped off just getting the most from funds available. It's definately not growing on tree at the moment. I'll post some pics when done.
 
wasnt a dig at you mate, it was a 'hit the nail on the head' answer to simply's question, its a common problem, and on no account was it intended to be disrespectful to your skills and experience... good on yer for havin the nouse to figure out where to get the info and then act on it... point is, as simply stated, most people havent got that nouse, and consequently go lookin for the cheapest quote, which inevitably leads em to said conclusions where theyre on here 2 years later askin 'wot the f'ck went wrong'...
:RpS_thumbup:
 
Chris W said:
wasnt a dig at you mate, it was a 'hit the nail on the head' answer to simply's question, its a common problem, and on no account was it intended to be disrespectful to your skills and experience... good on yer for havin the nouse to figure out where to get the info and then act on it... point is, as simply stated, most people havent got that nouse, and consequently go lookin for the cheapest quote, which inevitably leads em to said conclusions where theyre on here 2 years later askin 'wot the f'ck went wrong'...
:RpS_thumbup:
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Cheers Chris, I'll let you guys know how I get on.

Have a good Easter mate.
 
likewise :RpS_thumbup:
sure wozza would be here sayin the same but ill bet my last quid hes havin a well earned weekend off and is full of bombadier as we speak :RpS_laugh:
 
i think paul and simply summed it up well there and are spot on.

the modern renders now can transform the appereance of any property and if applied correctly will last a long time,machine or hand applied its a bit of a no brainer, as regards labour/cost/time.
 
Hi owls,

Thanks for the reply,

I'm not concerned about the overall price for the works, I hope I've priced enough projects to know when you're at the point of good value for money, certainly not always the cheapest. I was just wondering why prebagged is that much more than it's constituant parts. I was asking if it was easy enough to mix yourself. In other words, why pay extra for something that can be mix yourself?

cj
 
spunky said:
Why don't you make youre own?
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I personally do not have the knowledge to do so, but I assume you guys do but still choose to use the premixed products. The question is why? If I employ a professional renderer, I assume they have the knowledge and experience to blend a mix fit for purpose as I'm sure many of you have done for many years.
 
spunky said:
Yes that's correct we all make our own plaster in our garage in the evenings
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Please don't get me wrong spunky, I realise that the usual bagged products, bonding, multi finish etc. are all blended products, but I thought lime renders were a little different in as much as it was usual to make your own mix.
 
no body i know will blend there own render mate, companys spend a lot of money of batching the right products. we all buy premixed . the skill come's in the finishing of that product and giving the correct advice on what product to use. even lime products are bought in pre blended to the spec the customer wants
 
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