New Build Advice Please.

sparkypenguin

New Member
Hi all,

I am a first time self builder attempting to do most of the work myself and I have just started to board out my house.
As with most of the tasks I have undertaken to date I have found that you can get a reasonable amount of knowledge before you start a job from the tech guys and from general googling but then you find that you have more specific questions and a reasonable amount of conflicting advice.
Hence this call for help!
I have no intention to do any plastering and I have not yet chosen a plaster yet but I would like to ensure that all of the boarding is done to a high standard that will prevent future issues and make the plasterers life as easy as possible.
I have approx. 370 boards to do in total so any advantage I can get is going to make a big difference.

So here goes including photo's of my work so far showing some of my amateur / learning mistakes.....

For the stud walls and ceilings I am using screws but also a tube of grip adhesive on all joists and also along the edges of all boards so once they are butted up they are theoretically glued together.
20210727_152636.jpg
It does take longer and costs more but I believe that it can only help as long as it will not cause me any issues.
I am also using lots of screws, possible more than what is the norm, will this weaken the board?
Any thoughts appreciated.


Should any gaps >?mm between the boards and at the junctions etc be pre-filled with the appropriate filler before taping / skimming?

20210728_121645.jpg 20210728_121803.jpg

Should any loose paper / crushed board be cut out / removed?
Do I need to do anything where the paper edges of the board are not clean cut?
Should I be using blue grit anywhere, for example of the timber that is visible in the gaps?


I would also appreciate any advice on cutting the boards as when I cut and snap I find that the backing paper starts to pull away from the back of the boards.
I have tried only snapping back a little but no matter what I do the paper still comes away.

20210730_142049.jpg
I have taken to cutting all the way through the board and or scoring both sides before snapping but these both add a significant amount of time.
Am I doing something wrong?
Do I need to worry about the paper coming away?


When cutting the boards I am creating a reasonable amount of offcuts, especially as my first area was quite a complicated shaped corridor.
I have been trying to use these offcuts as much as possible but I am aware that there is a balance between the cost of the boards and the added cost / complication of more joins etc.
At what size offcut should I just accept it’s for the skip?
Any thoughts?

For the outlets I am unsure as to how to prep for the plasterer.
I have experienced issues in the past with cracking etc around sockets and I want to minimise this risk.
I have tried a few ides so far.
On some of the walls I can fit the back box so that the face of it is level with the timber and therefore I could leave any cutting until after skimming, would this help?
Alternatively I have cut a small hole in the centre in some area’s so I know where they are, would this help the plasterer? 20210728_121704.jpg
On the DnD walls I can attempt to keep the cut as tight as possible and ensure that adhesive is placed around them to support the board.
20210728_121723.jpg
I could use the socket beads if they are worth it?


When should I be using paper for the joins and when mesh tape?
Most of the tech guys state tape but most plasterers, in my limited experience, seem to use mesh.
Is it a case of using mesh for bigger gaps so that the plaster can penetrate and fill the gap or should all gaps be filled in advance?


What are peoples thoughts on wall boarding horizontally?
I’ve read a few articles on the benefits which include…
Fewer seams - Horizontal hanging reduces the lineal footage of seams by about 25%. Keeping the footage of seams to a minimum will result in less taping and a better looking finished job.
Hides uneven studs -Hanging horizontally also allows the drywall to flow over the framing so that bowed studs create less of a problem. If the drywall were hung vertically and a seam placed on a bowed out stud, the seam would be magnified because of the bump in the wall.
Easier to finish - A horizontal seam 48 inches or 54 inches off the floor is easier to finish uniformly, especially when compared to a vertical seam, which requires reaching up high and bending down low to finish.


Most of the time I have been using the special plasterboard screwdriver bits, if I just screw in until it stops driving the screw it does seem to countersink quite far but does not break the paper. I think it achieves this by the outer rim of the bit compressing the board around the hole.
Is this correct I should I stop screwing earlier?
Do the black or zinc screws require any priming before plastering?

Does it matter how long plasterboard is on the walls before skimming?

Some DnD specific questions….....

Should I be placing a full line of adhesive along all edges of the boards?
I know I should for skirting and I think I need to at the top but what about the vertical joins?


How important is it that the total wall ends up plumb?
This may sound like a daft question but it’s based on my experience of having to find a compromise whilst tiling and the difficulty of achieving a perfectly flat service.
I have watched several videos and they all seem to show how to get one board nice and plumb but never mention the next few boards, surely even a small variation in the starting angle on the first board could result in the last board of a long run being significantly out from the wall.
I have toyed with the idea of using pre drawn datum lines on the floor, walls, ceiling etc and even adding some form of battens to work too, or building string.
I understand the basic principle of finding the high spot on the wall and working from that but most DnD I have seen done they seem to just start from one wall and work across hitting the board with a straight edge and using a spirit level whilst showing no regard to the subsequent boards wall until they get there.

I have read and am fairly confident that I should be PVA’ing the block walls before DnDing.
I am using approx.. 4-1 mix which I think is OK.
Should I do the full wall or just where I am going to apply the adhesive?
Does it work on aircrete blocks as well as the traditional blocks?

Also a couple of question about the final skimming and what is deemed acceptable.....
My friend has recently had an extension skimmed and I have been popping down on a regular basis to have a look.
The plaster, who I am considering using, did all of the DnDing and my friend did the ceiling.
Things I noticed that I was concerned about included….
Gaps of up to 20mm wide and deep being mesh taped over and then skimmed with no pre filling.
Visible mesh after the final skim coat that can be felt.
Visible angle bead on angel bead joins and not particularly joined well.
Gaps in the plasterboard that the plasterer cut around the sockets of up to 10mm, subsequently the skimming filled these but a couple have already cracked.
When I put a 2m straight edge on one of the walls the middle was about 3mm out.
I am aware that I am a bit of a perfectionist so are my concerns justified?

Other photo's....

20210723_161302.jpg 20210729_152223.jpg 20210729_152214.jpg 20210728_141228.jpg

Any general comments about any issues in any of my photo's that I have missed are most welcome and I can upload bigger photo's if that helps.

Any help much appreciated.
 

spread95

Well-Known Member
You've just at least doubled the price I would normally charge by doing your own boarding, a professional would not leave any gaps to be pre filled.
Shame your not a perfectionist with your own work just expect it from the plasterer covering your s**t!!
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
celotex on a flat ceiling?

build regs will want 300mm of wool
Hi,
Celotex between joists and over / under joists depending on the room. Typically 150mm of celotex gives the same insulation as 300mm wool. But I have also added wool in all unused loft spaces and around the edges, whilst ensuring the required airflow to remove any moisture All good with building regs but thanks for the post. (y)
 

Zippydragon

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I am a first time self builder attempting to do most of the work myself and I have just started to board out my house.
As with most of the tasks I have undertaken to date I have found that you can get a reasonable amount of knowledge before you start a job from the tech guys and from general googling but then you find that you have more specific questions and a reasonable amount of conflicting advice.
Hence this call for help!
I have no intention to do any plastering and I have not yet chosen a plaster yet but I would like to ensure that all of the boarding is done to a high standard that will prevent future issues and make the plasterers life as easy as possible.
I have approx. 370 boards to do in total so any advantage I can get is going to make a big difference.

So here goes including photo's of my work so far showing some of my amateur / learning mistakes.....

For the stud walls and ceilings I am using screws but also a tube of grip adhesive on all joists and also along the edges of all boards so once they are butted up they are theoretically glued together.
View attachment 63054
It does take longer and costs more but I believe that it can only help as long as it will not cause me any issues.
I am also using lots of screws, possible more than what is the norm, will this weaken the board?
Any thoughts appreciated.


Should any gaps >?mm between the boards and at the junctions etc be pre-filled with the appropriate filler before taping / skimming?

View attachment 63048 View attachment 63050

Should any loose paper / crushed board be cut out / removed?
Do I need to do anything where the paper edges of the board are not clean cut?
Should I be using blue grit anywhere, for example of the timber that is visible in the gaps?


I would also appreciate any advice on cutting the boards as when I cut and snap I find that the backing paper starts to pull away from the back of the boards.
I have tried only snapping back a little but no matter what I do the paper still comes away.

View attachment 63049
I have taken to cutting all the way through the board and or scoring both sides before snapping but these both add a significant amount of time.
Am I doing something wrong?
Do I need to worry about the paper coming away?


When cutting the boards I am creating a reasonable amount of offcuts, especially as my first area was quite a complicated shaped corridor.
I have been trying to use these offcuts as much as possible but I am aware that there is a balance between the cost of the boards and the added cost / complication of more joins etc.
At what size offcut should I just accept it’s for the skip?
Any thoughts?

For the outlets I am unsure as to how to prep for the plasterer.
I have experienced issues in the past with cracking etc around sockets and I want to minimise this risk.
I have tried a few ides so far.
On some of the walls I can fit the back box so that the face of it is level with the timber and therefore I could leave any cutting until after skimming, would this help?
Alternatively I have cut a small hole in the centre in some area’s so I know where they are, would this help the plasterer? View attachment 63052
On the DnD walls I can attempt to keep the cut as tight as possible and ensure that adhesive is placed around them to support the board.
View attachment 63051
I could use the socket beads if they are worth it?


When should I be using paper for the joins and when mesh tape?
Most of the tech guys state tape but most plasterers, in my limited experience, seem to use mesh.
Is it a case of using mesh for bigger gaps so that the plaster can penetrate and fill the gap or should all gaps be filled in advance?


What are peoples thoughts on wall boarding horizontally?
I’ve read a few articles on the benefits which include…
Fewer seams - Horizontal hanging reduces the lineal footage of seams by about 25%. Keeping the footage of seams to a minimum will result in less taping and a better looking finished job.
Hides uneven studs -Hanging horizontally also allows the drywall to flow over the framing so that bowed studs create less of a problem. If the drywall were hung vertically and a seam placed on a bowed out stud, the seam would be magnified because of the bump in the wall.
Easier to finish - A horizontal seam 48 inches or 54 inches off the floor is easier to finish uniformly, especially when compared to a vertical seam, which requires reaching up high and bending down low to finish.


Most of the time I have been using the special plasterboard screwdriver bits, if I just screw in until it stops driving the screw it does seem to countersink quite far but does not break the paper. I think it achieves this by the outer rim of the bit compressing the board around the hole.
Is this correct I should I stop screwing earlier?
Do the black or zinc screws require any priming before plastering?

Does it matter how long plasterboard is on the walls before skimming?

Some DnD specific questions….....

Should I be placing a full line of adhesive along all edges of the boards?
I know I should for skirting and I think I need to at the top but what about the vertical joins?


How important is it that the total wall ends up plumb?
This may sound like a daft question but it’s based on my experience of having to find a compromise whilst tiling and the difficulty of achieving a perfectly flat service.
I have watched several videos and they all seem to show how to get one board nice and plumb but never mention the next few boards, surely even a small variation in the starting angle on the first board could result in the last board of a long run being significantly out from the wall.
I have toyed with the idea of using pre drawn datum lines on the floor, walls, ceiling etc and even adding some form of battens to work too, or building string.
I understand the basic principle of finding the high spot on the wall and working from that but most DnD I have seen done they seem to just start from one wall and work across hitting the board with a straight edge and using a spirit level whilst showing no regard to the subsequent boards wall until they get there.

I have read and am fairly confident that I should be PVA’ing the block walls before DnDing.
I am using approx.. 4-1 mix which I think is OK.
Should I do the full wall or just where I am going to apply the adhesive?
Does it work on aircrete blocks as well as the traditional blocks?

Also a couple of question about the final skimming and what is deemed acceptable.....
My friend has recently had an extension skimmed and I have been popping down on a regular basis to have a look.
The plaster, who I am considering using, did all of the DnDing and my friend did the ceiling.
Things I noticed that I was concerned about included….
Gaps of up to 20mm wide and deep being mesh taped over and then skimmed with no pre filling.
Visible mesh after the final skim coat that can be felt.
Visible angle bead on angel bead joins and not particularly joined well.
Gaps in the plasterboard that the plasterer cut around the sockets of up to 10mm, subsequently the skimming filled these but a couple have already cracked.
When I put a 2m straight edge on one of the walls the middle was about 3mm out.
I am aware that I am a bit of a perfectionist so are my concerns justified?

Other photo's....

View attachment 63053 View attachment 63055 View attachment 63056 View attachment 63058

Any general comments about any issues in any of my photo's that I have missed are most welcome and I can upload bigger photo's if that helps.

Any help much appreciated.
I’m afraid I didn’t read your whole post. You will inevitability get charged more by a plasterer as they won’t have done the boarding and with the best will in the world, they will find fault, we always do. I’ve seen customer boarding where they have used the gift of prayer to hold it up as they have barely screwed it. Yours looks better than some I have seen, not sure about the no nails behind it but hey, each to their own, it’s your house do what you think is right, your the one living there. All the best
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
I’m afraid I didn’t read your whole post. You will inevitability get charged more by a plasterer as they won’t have done the boarding and with the best will in the world, they will find fault, we always do. I’ve seen customer boarding where they have used the gift of prayer to hold it up as they have barely screwed it. Yours looks better than some I have seen, not sure about the no nails behind it but hey, each to their own, it’s your house do what you think is right, your the one living there. All the best
Thanks for reply. The no nails is an extra precaution as I am still using plenty of screws so it's unlikely it will ever come down. In fact I had to take a board down the other day as I had made a mistake and once I had taken out the screws it still took a considerable amount of force to remove it, and that was only an hour or so after fitting. All the best.
 

Spudknit

Active Member
Read 75% of it but I like how you say at end your a perfectionist then churn out boarding with gaps everywhere
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
Read 75% of it but I like how you say at end your a perfectionist then churn out boarding with gaps everywhere
I can see how that comes across but still learning mate, gaps getting smaller the more I do. Also that's why I have posted on here to try and get a feel for what's acceptable and what's not. The last thing I want to do is make the plasterers job more difficult and given unlimited funds I would not even be attempting the boarding.
 

Nicm

Well-Known Member
I can see how that comes across but still learning mate, gaps getting smaller the more I do. Also that's why I have posted on here to try and get a feel for what's acceptable and what's not. The last thing I want to do is make the plasterers job more difficult and given unlimited funds I would not even be attempting the boarding.
Why not cut costs on kitchen and bathroom and get a good boarder in?.
 

ChrispyUK

Well-Known Member
The best advice I can give is to check out the Chrispy house diary

blah blah blah

blah blah

blah blah blah

All the answers are there

your welcome
 

bof

Well-Known Member
The best advice I can give is to check out the Chrispy house diary

blah blah blah

blah blah

blah blah blah

All the answers are there

your welcome
I thought the chrispy house diary was only for top pros and long term members of disreputable character
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
Why not cut costs on kitchen and bathroom and get a good boarder in?.
I'm actually fitting those myself so no cost saving available. I've done most of the work from the ground works onwards. Only jobs I tend to get the pro's in are for the skilled jobs that I believe are beyond me. For example plastering. Building the house is a type of pension for me so when I do stuff myself it's like working for the saving for my pension. Plus I enjoy doing it and learning about the various stuff. I'm not saying that boarding is not a learned or skilled job but with a bit of advice I am confident that I could prepare to a decent standard for the plasterer. Hence my post asking what I could do better / differently but so far only advice is to pay the plasterer to do it and to make sure I provide ample beverages and munch!:LOL::LOL:. The beverages and munch can be arranged but would still like to pursue doing the boarding myself.
Plus as a bonus I have found out that apparently the work I have done so far is comparable to what comes out of a dogs rectum, my attitude is such that help will not be provided and that for some reason I am a nobhead!:ROFLMAO: Not too sure what specifically in my thread has lead people to these opinions though?????:confused:
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
Looks like you’ll need the glue on the studs, because a lot of your screws are in too far.
Hi TonyM and thanks for comment.
Most of the time I have been using the special plasterboard screwdriver bits, if I just screw in until it stops driving the screw it does seem to countersink quite far but doesn't seem to break the paper. I think it achieves this by the outer rim of the bit compressing the board around the hole.
Is this correct I should I stop screwing earlier?
Maybe abandon the special bit and use a normal bit on V low torque then hand tighten at end?
 

bof

Well-Known Member
Hi TonyM and thanks for comment.
Most of the time I have been using the special plasterboard screwdriver bits, if I just screw in until it stops driving the screw it does seem to countersink quite far but doesn't seem to break the paper. I think it achieves this by the outer rim of the bit compressing the board around the hole.
Is this correct I should I stop screwing earlier?
Maybe abandon the special bit and use a normal bit on V low torque then hand tighten at end?
My screws are 1 mm proud of the surface
 

Monkey Boy

Well-Known Member
Your sort of trying to achieve a plaster boarding apprenticeship over one Internet forum post?
I like that you want to learn the details and get things right plus appreciate those lengthy well written explanations/questions

Screws alone suffice - grip fill is only sticking the paper to the stud = waste off time really

Solid line of dab all perimeters (that is why one 25kg bag only does up to two boards on plumb walls)

Cut out for all sockets else you’ll lose them

Beware you have raised the cost of the plastering it by boarding it yourself so not a complete saving
 

Ritch

Well-Known Member
I can see how that comes across but still learning mate, gaps getting smaller the more I do. Also that's why I have posted on here to try and get a feel for what's acceptable and what's not. The last thing I want to do is make the plasterers job more difficult and given unlimited funds I would not even be attempting the boarding.
Expanding foam all the gaps, builders love the stuff. most used tool for a builder expanding foam lol
 

superspread

Well-Known Member
Looks ok to me, I leave gaps in my boarding purposely,so for me your doing it correctly, no idea why a spread would charge you more cos they haven’t done the boarding, I certainly wouldn’t, the only extra cost would be if anything needed rejigging.
No need to gripfill adhesive everything. Screws about 200mm apart and try and justnip the paper
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
Your sort of trying to achieve a plaster boarding apprenticeship over one Internet forum post?
I like that you want to learn the details and get things right plus appreciate those lengthy well written explanations/questions

Screws alone suffice - grip fill is only sticking the paper to the stud = waste off time really

Solid line of dab all perimeters (that is why one 25kg bag only does up to two boards on plumb walls)

Cut out for all sockets else you’ll lose them

Beware you have raised the cost of the plastering it by boarding it yourself so not a complete saving
Thanks for the constructive advice Monkey Boy.
I am confused as to why several replies have said that it would cost more to have it skimmed only as opposed to the plasterer having to do all of the boarding as well. Can you explain why this would be if I get the prep right?
 

sparkypenguin

New Member
Looks ok to me, I leave gaps in my boarding purposely,so for me your doing it correctly, no idea why a spread would charge you more cos they haven’t done the boarding, I certainly wouldn’t, the only extra cost would be if anything needed rejigging.
No need to gripfill adhesive everything. Screws about 200mm apart and try and justnip the paper
Thanks for advice superspread.
I'm also confused as to why I would pay more if I board out to an acceptable?
I have asked the question but at the moment I can only assume it may be that the plasterer may loose a mark up on the materials? However I nearly always buy all the materials myself as it's a new build so I can claim the VAT back and also it keeps their turnover down for the trades.
 

Monkey Boy

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the constructive advice Monkey Boy.
I am confused as to why several replies have said that it would cost more to have it skimmed only as opposed to the plasterer having to do all of the boarding as well. Can you explain why this would be if I get the prep right?
I imagine there is a day or two rectifying involved before skimming plus you would take up a day or two talking all the time so would add 4 days to the job that’s all I’m saying so not a big extra but neither complete saving for you boarding it yourself if you was really counting the pennies expecting that part to be completely lost from your final bill :p

PS welcome to the forum
 

Spudknit

Active Member
Comparing glue to dot and dab.this Place is bonkers.you try scrape glue off a stud then try the same with dot and dab with the same force
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
@sparkypenguin if there's a gap of 3mm or more then it should be pre-filled before plastering. Not with foam or whatever, but with plaster, by the plasterer. If there's lots of it expect to pay a bit extra.
Stop using glue on the studs it's utterly pointless, use the saved time to measure twice, cut once and end up with fewer gaps.
Ditch the dimple bits for your driver and buy a proper collated screwgun, 100% money well spent.
Do not under any circumstances scrim or bead up for the plasterer.
 
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