need help 2 hardwall
- Thread starter oasis
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dpbeds
Guest
You dont ask much do you!!
OK I'll assume you have treated any suction and provided the hardwall with a key and mixed up your first load so......
screeds..... lay a strip of gear about 10mm thick and a trowel length wide from floor to ceiling about a trowel in from corner. Rule this vertically with a feather edge filling anywhere the edge doesn't touch.
place another screed about 5' along from this and another after and so on. This assumes your feather edge is 6'.
let them pull in a bit to firm up then essentially fill the areas between and use the screeds to rule off from horizontally filling in where the egde doesnt touch.
when its flat let it go off then make figure of eights with a devil float all over wall to provide key. Leave for about two hours then skim it.
Sorry that's as good as I can do without you in front of me and a trowel in my hand.
OK I'll assume you have treated any suction and provided the hardwall with a key and mixed up your first load so......
screeds..... lay a strip of gear about 10mm thick and a trowel length wide from floor to ceiling about a trowel in from corner. Rule this vertically with a feather edge filling anywhere the edge doesn't touch.
place another screed about 5' along from this and another after and so on. This assumes your feather edge is 6'.
let them pull in a bit to firm up then essentially fill the areas between and use the screeds to rule off from horizontally filling in where the egde doesnt touch.
when its flat let it go off then make figure of eights with a devil float all over wall to provide key. Leave for about two hours then skim it.
Sorry that's as good as I can do without you in front of me and a trowel in my hand.
trowledover
New Member
or horizontal bands across the wall
sometimes even two large ones in each corner and fill in the middle depending on size of wall
sometimes even two large ones in each corner and fill in the middle depending on size of wall
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nicksey1401
Guest
honestly if you dont know what youre doing i feel sorry for the customer
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nicksey1401
Guest
sorry mate i had a sh%tload to drink last night good luck with th job
church
Well-Known Member
May take longer than 2 hours if there is no suction, wait for the chemical set to take place the hardwall  will change colour and it will give off a heat skim it then, or if there is a lot of suction it will craze  still wait for the colour change as if you skim it to early it will craze the finish coat.
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bigsegs
Guest
oasis mate, just crack in there like u know what your doin...to the untrained eye it looks like alchemy...and to be honest, dp describes the best method but im a lazy basket and i just throw it on the wall as quick as poss and rule it off freehand as though my straightedge were a giant trowel...
church, surprised at you havin had topcoat craze over hardwall havin gone on too EARLY!...i normally find it bubbles like acne...are u puttin in on real thin and not takin the suction out of the background??
wot ive started doin is usin hardwall as an all purpose filler etc, ive always got a bag of the stuff with me cos i mainly do overskim and you know what some are like...if i know im gonna have to put the skim on real thick, like round corner beads for example i just base it out first with a thin coat of hardwall, i even stick my beads on with it... BUT...ill prep the wall first as though i was straight skimming...i.e. pva etc...UNLESS im patching out back to brick i.e. 8mm+ in which case it goes straight on...
then i usually just let it firm up and hit it with the first coat of multi...it gets complicated if it bubbles on the hardwall and nowhere else, in which case ill save the hardwalled bits till last when flattenin and toppin...
i know this sounds a bit 'out there' but i find it solves any ripple problems associated with layin skim on too thick and toppin to quick..
if it bubbles on first coat of skim, just leave it a bit longer, flatten it and top as normal...i do put fresh mix on for toppin though..
only time ive had it craze is if its too thin on high suction backing and its gone off...
church, surprised at you havin had topcoat craze over hardwall havin gone on too EARLY!...i normally find it bubbles like acne...are u puttin in on real thin and not takin the suction out of the background??
wot ive started doin is usin hardwall as an all purpose filler etc, ive always got a bag of the stuff with me cos i mainly do overskim and you know what some are like...if i know im gonna have to put the skim on real thick, like round corner beads for example i just base it out first with a thin coat of hardwall, i even stick my beads on with it... BUT...ill prep the wall first as though i was straight skimming...i.e. pva etc...UNLESS im patching out back to brick i.e. 8mm+ in which case it goes straight on...
then i usually just let it firm up and hit it with the first coat of multi...it gets complicated if it bubbles on the hardwall and nowhere else, in which case ill save the hardwalled bits till last when flattenin and toppin...
i know this sounds a bit 'out there' but i find it solves any ripple problems associated with layin skim on too thick and toppin to quick..
if it bubbles on first coat of skim, just leave it a bit longer, flatten it and top as normal...i do put fresh mix on for toppin though..
only time ive had it craze is if its too thin on high suction backing and its gone off...
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bigsegs
Guest
yerh durox suck like holy hell, same with render, worse with hardwall..soak em with water first, i mean proper soak em, but if you dont want a swimming pool treat em like you was overskimmin and give em a real thin pva, followed by a thicker one, should have loadsa time then...
or do what i do with connys...
d+d em in the morning, skim em in the afternoon 1 set, its not like theres a load of metreage cos there all windows but you have to run round a bit in summer cos of the heat and the ridge is vented..
only problem with connys is the main house abutment wall, nobody ever cavity trays above the conny so the internal wall can be subjected to water ingress from above cos its effectively an outside wall...not a lot you can do cept maybe render it, but no one wants to pay for that so i dont even bother to offer, unless maybe ive got an idea they know what theyre doin...reason for that is if i dont d+d it, someone else will..no good havin the knowledge and bein out of work is it?
or do what i do with connys...
d+d em in the morning, skim em in the afternoon 1 set, its not like theres a load of metreage cos there all windows but you have to run round a bit in summer cos of the heat and the ridge is vented..
only problem with connys is the main house abutment wall, nobody ever cavity trays above the conny so the internal wall can be subjected to water ingress from above cos its effectively an outside wall...not a lot you can do cept maybe render it, but no one wants to pay for that so i dont even bother to offer, unless maybe ive got an idea they know what theyre doin...reason for that is if i dont d+d it, someone else will..no good havin the knowledge and bein out of work is it?
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bigsegs
Guest
tell u what though church, float AND set in a morning, then screed afternoon AND clean up...
some goin that, respect, hope to god youre 2 up!!! no way on gods eath could i do that on my own..
thats got to be a 7am on site, 6pm finish..how much you chargin for that?? dont have to answer that, just wonderin if its worth it 2 up...youd p*ss it d+d 2up inc screed, is it site?
some goin that, respect, hope to god youre 2 up!!! no way on gods eath could i do that on my own..
thats got to be a 7am on site, 6pm finish..how much you chargin for that?? dont have to answer that, just wonderin if its worth it 2 up...youd p*ss it d+d 2up inc screed, is it site?
bodplasterer
Active Member
Talkin of screeding done one friday 10 ton by 12, started at 8, my mate who i work with went away on a stag weekend so left me to it, had a chippy leveling all round while i pulled it all through went sweet as a nut in the pub by 12:30 was pretty worse for wear when i got home though got a bollocking from the misses, also burnt both my knees as couldnt wear the knee pads as they were killing the backs of my legs. Might change my trade to a screeder they so much more than plasterers.
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bigsegs
Guest
good goin again...biggest one i ever did was a 7m square room @ nearly 100mm 5 cube of readymix screed, got it barrowed in but it took me best part of a day...harder i thought when its one room, gotta keep it flat all the way across......
for a mate that, charged him 150 quid...
10 ton though...bloody hell, full ground floor, before dinner...bet you was well hammered that day...not surprised you got it off the missus ;D
for a mate that, charged him 150 quid...
10 ton though...bloody hell, full ground floor, before dinner...bet you was well hammered that day...not surprised you got it off the missus ;D
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bigsegs
Guest
did u mix it and barrow it or just barrow it pug??
im startin to think im a) in the wrong job or b) to old/f*cked and in the wrong job...
or c) do these boys have cats iron knees....
or d) anyone had any experience of this latex stylie screed that they just pump in like latex but 3-4 inch thick and just let it go off self leveling stylie??
im startin to think im a) in the wrong job or b) to old/f*cked and in the wrong job...
or c) do these boys have cats iron knees....
or d) anyone had any experience of this latex stylie screed that they just pump in like latex but 3-4 inch thick and just let it go off self leveling stylie??
church
Well-Known Member
its a 2+1gang on average 4x3 conny ,we like at 7.30am depends on the customer ! been doing them for years now for the same firm , 9/10 they d+d the host wall ,so the floats done by 10, sets done by 1 and the floors down by 3 , they supply and we charge £around 400 but that does depend where and how big? by the way 10cc sang bannana republic i think ? :-/ .
If they are only a small they d+d all walls but we do them 1+1, Bodplasterer what pads are you using i might be able to recconmend a pair for you.
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bigsegs
Guest
i did think y'know...
i reckon youd have lost more than your gut if you had to mix it as well...possibly including the will to live!
hope im still able to kneel down at 68, or a least get up again! let alone screed bl**dy floors!
i reckon youd have lost more than your gut if you had to mix it as well...possibly including the will to live!
hope im still able to kneel down at 68, or a least get up again! let alone screed bl**dy floors!
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bigsegs
Guest
they got this new 'pump it in' latex style stuff now though...goes down thick as you like..p*ss easy to do, assuming you got the gear...maybe thats the thing to get into before the money goes out of screeding...same way it went out of steel fabricating/pvc windows/plastic fascias...
just a matter of time before someone cottons on to the fact that one machine will save the work of ten people...
in fact...im gonna start lookin in to that, your not the first person thats mentioned older blokes sackin the trowel in favour of the straight edge and float...
sometime i really think i should keep my gob shut...but seein as im in among friends...
just a matter of time before someone cottons on to the fact that one machine will save the work of ten people...
in fact...im gonna start lookin in to that, your not the first person thats mentioned older blokes sackin the trowel in favour of the straight edge and float...
sometime i really think i should keep my gob shut...but seein as im in among friends...
Pug
Well-Known Member
i asked him about the wet stuff, he wasn't impressed! he reckons it pays a third of trad screed and its not always suitable, for example we've been doing schools where theres a vinyl to carpet area so you need a 3mm difference in level, you can't do that with the wet gear. (he says)
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bigsegs
Guest
first thought in my head - shuttering...
might pay a third but it takes maybe a fifth the time...dunno yet, not tried it, but watch out for the stuff cos old guys are stuck in their ways dont forget...
might pay a third but it takes maybe a fifth the time...dunno yet, not tried it, but watch out for the stuff cos old guys are stuck in their ways dont forget...
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bigsegs
Guest
extract from a site a had a quick look at..
ReadyMix Supaflo
Supaflo is a new generation screeding product which is a great step forward in that it gives more benefits to specifiers and increases design flexibility. For the contractor, it is a solution that is far easier to apply. A flowing floor screed, Readymix Supaflo is based on calcium sulfate whereas traditional screeds are based on Portland cement. Ready to use, it offers a great many advantages over traditional screeds, namely:
Speed of application
Surface finish
Attainable accuracy of placement and finishing
Reduction in thickness
Elimination or substantial reduction of movement joints
Using a flow applied screed means a far less labour intensive operation.
Screed thickness can be reduced compared with traditional screeds, so one gang of four men can place 2000m 2 or more accurately in a day. This is ten to twenty times more than with conventional materials. Supaflo is virtually self-compacting and flows easily into place, filling all voids and irregularities. It is precisely laser levelled to an accuracy of equal to or better than surface regularity SR2.
Compared with traditional screeds, shrinkage is minimal and is unlikely to occur. Therefore, curling is entirely eliminated as there is no differential shrinkage. It can be applied in all dry locations and in most situations where a conventional unbonded, floating or heated Portland cement screed could be used.
Flow applied screeds have grown in popularity in the last few years. In fact in some European countries half of all screeds are now flow applied.
site .... http://www.euroscreed.co.uk/readymix_supaflo.html
ReadyMix Supaflo
Supaflo is a new generation screeding product which is a great step forward in that it gives more benefits to specifiers and increases design flexibility. For the contractor, it is a solution that is far easier to apply. A flowing floor screed, Readymix Supaflo is based on calcium sulfate whereas traditional screeds are based on Portland cement. Ready to use, it offers a great many advantages over traditional screeds, namely:
Speed of application
Surface finish
Attainable accuracy of placement and finishing
Reduction in thickness
Elimination or substantial reduction of movement joints
Using a flow applied screed means a far less labour intensive operation.
Screed thickness can be reduced compared with traditional screeds, so one gang of four men can place 2000m 2 or more accurately in a day. This is ten to twenty times more than with conventional materials. Supaflo is virtually self-compacting and flows easily into place, filling all voids and irregularities. It is precisely laser levelled to an accuracy of equal to or better than surface regularity SR2.
Compared with traditional screeds, shrinkage is minimal and is unlikely to occur. Therefore, curling is entirely eliminated as there is no differential shrinkage. It can be applied in all dry locations and in most situations where a conventional unbonded, floating or heated Portland cement screed could be used.
Flow applied screeds have grown in popularity in the last few years. In fact in some European countries half of all screeds are now flow applied.
site .... http://www.euroscreed.co.uk/readymix_supaflo.html
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bigsegs
Guest
only problem i see is you gotta do there course cos they got the monopoly on it, or maybe not just them but it seem whoever supplies it makes you pretty much a labourer...
look at these silly air tests and stuff... cellotex everywhere... if i'd have guessed that 5-7 years ago i'd have shares in the stuff...or at least had a look into the gang that developed the equivalent...
just wondering how long its gonna be before polycell invent some sort of self applicating/self levelling 1 coat plaster that any old diy bod is gonna be able to get his hands on...
cant beat the old skills...but im gettin to the point where id rather earn with my head than my back..
not that thats gonna happen after years of abuse
look at these silly air tests and stuff... cellotex everywhere... if i'd have guessed that 5-7 years ago i'd have shares in the stuff...or at least had a look into the gang that developed the equivalent...
just wondering how long its gonna be before polycell invent some sort of self applicating/self levelling 1 coat plaster that any old diy bod is gonna be able to get his hands on...
cant beat the old skills...but im gettin to the point where id rather earn with my head than my back..
not that thats gonna happen after years of abuse
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bigsegs
Guest
so.. how long before you ring readymix up and get a pumped delivery for 50 square? people are gonna prefer it cos its gonna be cheaper....
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bigsegs
Guest
see your point...goin to bed now...prolly had enough of the missus whote grenache...
yeah ive seen that self leveler floor gear.its magnolia like in colour an duz wot it says on the tin.starts out like p*ss,ends up hard as rock (it says that on it,honest) no need for rules,jus gravity will do nicely.
but they will neva come up with a process as easy to replace all other traditional plasterin techniques,though they are tryin! that sh*te on the tv advert,where its like polyfiller that anyone can simply 'put on an make smooth walls' its good coz people will buy it,try it then phone up for a plasterer eventualy anyway! fathers for justice?? PLASTERERS FOR JUSTICE!!!
but they will neva come up with a process as easy to replace all other traditional plasterin techniques,though they are tryin! that sh*te on the tv advert,where its like polyfiller that anyone can simply 'put on an make smooth walls' its good coz people will buy it,try it then phone up for a plasterer eventualy anyway! fathers for justice?? PLASTERERS FOR JUSTICE!!!
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nicksey1401
Guest
just ordered one of these ;D
http://www.edilrobotica.net/?p=intonax_film.php
http://www.edilrobotica.net/?p=intonax_film.php
bodplasterer
Active Member
OMG they are getting closer we're all gonna be out of a job PANIC!!!!!!! lol
lol
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bigsegs
Guest
wonder how long it takes to get it up the stairs?
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