Liquid screed.

[Deleted member 23452]

Why on earth would anyone use S&C screed when liquid screed is available?

£1,400 to supply and lay everything above the insulation slab, including the UFH pipes, manifold and thermostat. Only a small floor at 10 square metres, but three hours from turn up to clean up.

 

[themucky1]

Why on earth would anyone use S&C screed when liquid screed is available?

£1,400 to supply and lay everything above the insulation slab, including the UFH pipes, manifold and thermostat. Only a small floor at 10 square metres, but three hours from turn up to clean up.

£140m2 then What thickness screed? I'm curious as I'm going to Weber for a days training for flow screeds as I want to start smashing that this year


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[gps]

Cost is a big difference though isn’t it ‘

 

[malc]

Why on earth would anyone use S&C screed when liquid screed is available?

£1,400 to supply and lay everything above the insulation slab, including the UFH pipes, manifold and thermostat. Only a small floor at 10 square metres, but three hours from turn up to clean up.

my local plumber done the same on his own house, he wanted to do the UFH himself but could not match the complete price.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

£140m2 then What thickness screed? I'm curious as I'm going to Weber for a days training for flow screeds as I want to start smashing that this year


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Don't forget that includes all the underfloor heating pipework, the manifold and thermostats, so it's difficult to give it as a m2 value. Twice the area would only be about 3% extra on the pipework part of the price.

55 mm or thereabouts.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

my local plumber done the same on his own house, he wanted to do the UFH himself but could not match the complete price.

The plumber that does my stuff priced up the UFH bits from his supplier and it came to £1050.

 

[themucky1]

Don't forget that includes all the underfloor heating pipework, the manifold and thermostats, so it's difficult to give it as a m2 value. Twice the area would only be about 3% extra on the pipework part of the price.

55 mm or thereabouts.

I'd like to pick your brains if I can?????


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[Deleted member 23452]

I'd like to pick your brains if I can?????


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Sure, about what?

 

[Dansouthcoast84]

it definetly looks a money spinner

 

[CeeVee]

Is this the stuff in newbuilds that takes about 3 months to dry tho?
Just worked on a few and the karndean floor came up coz it wasnt dry enuff

 

[Deleted member 23452]

Is this the stuff in newbuilds that takes about 3 months to dry tho?
Just worked on a few and the karndean floor came up coz it wasnt dry enuff

As a general rule, the stuff that goes on in new builds should never be taken as an example of how things operate or how they should be done.

Drying time is 1 mm per day like S&C, but you can use 40 mm instead of 65 mm. You can also force dry it after 7 days using the UFH or room heaters if you want it to dry quicker. Things like putting too much heat on too quickly, letting the sun shine through windows and doors directly onto it etc apply to S&C or liquid.

The big advantages liquid screed has over S&C is the speed to lay it, and when used with UFH you don't get voids but you do get better heat transfer. The other thing is that you can put a big area of liquid screed down and still be able to stand up straight and walk afterwards.

 

[essexandy]

We're seeing more builders coming back to traditional screed even with UFH.
Generally they're very disappointed with the overall quality of the screeds. I've been gobsmacked at how bad some have been.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

We're seeing more builders coming back to traditional screed even with UFH.
Generally they're very disappointed with the overall quality of the screeds. I've been gobsmacked at how bad some have been.

That cuts both ways, when I've had ready mixed S&C delivered it's been p1ss poor on a number of occasions. I guess it's all about who you get the gear from, the firm that did the supply and lay on this come well recommended.

I have to say that I won't be persuaded back to using an inferior product that takes longer to lay.

 

[owls]

As a general rule, the stuff that goes on in new builds should never be taken as an example of how things operate or how they should be done.

Drying time is 1 mm per day like S&C, but you can use 40 mm instead of 65 mm. You can also force dry it after 7 days using the UFH or room heaters if you want it to dry quicker. Things like putting too much heat on too quickly, letting the sun shine through windows and doors directly onto it etc apply to S&C or liquid.

The big advantages liquid screed has over S&C is the speed to lay it, and when used with UFH you don't get voids but you do get better heat transfer. The other thing is that you can put a big area of liquid screed down and still be able to stand up straight and walk afterwards.

Screeding sand cement is donkey work, although I can use my diesel to pump it but even so, its the speed of laying it as you say.
The money has gone out it for the applicator for flo screeds mind as there's too many doing it.
I used to have a gang doing it full time,around 2010 and made good money easy a £1000 a week profit for me just off that gang, but the competitive rates dropped lower and lower for it, and in the end they got too many outfits taking it on, I now don't do any and sold my 2nd deisel machine a few years ago. There's an outfit near me that go nation wide and there rates are ridiculously cheap, they make there money on sheer volume of jobs and mega size jobs.

 

[malc]

Screeding cement and sand was stopped in the Netherlands several years ago, it is now all flow screed.
the insurance companies had to pay out to often on injuries to screeders they said that screeding was to heavy work to ask a man to carry out.
every worker is stopped a few pounds every week for insurance, it also covers you when you can not work through cold weather. all the plasterers are praying for snow !

 

[Deleted member 23452]

Screeding sand cement is donkey work, although I can use my diesel to pump it but even so, its the speed of laying it as you say.
The money has gone out it for the applicator for flo screeds mind as there's too many doing it.
I used to have a gang doing it full time,around 2010 and made good money easy a £1000 a week profit for me just off that gang, but the competitive rates dropped lower and lower for it, and in the end they got too many outfits taking it on, I now don't do any and sold my 2nd deisel machine a few years ago. There's an outfit near me that go nation wide and there rates are ridiculously cheap, they make there money on sheer volume of jobs and mega size jobs.

I think it'll be like that for most 'new' stuff in the building game. Get in early (when you see it taking off) make your money and get out before the inevitable race to the bottom starts.

This is the outfit I used https://www.screedit.co.uk/ the lads doing it were saying they're always busy. I don't see how a smaller outfit could compete at those prices, as I said, the whole job cost £400 more than the plumber could get the UFH materials for.

 

[essexandy]

That cuts both ways, when I've had ready mixed S&C delivered it's been p1ss poor on a number of occasions. I guess it's all about who you get the gear from, the firm that did the supply and lay on this come well recommended.

I have to say that I won't be persuaded back to using an inferior product that takes longer to lay.

We don't use ready mixed screed, always mixed on site in my Winget mixer and barrowed in. Old skool.
We earn good money screeding and get internal plastering work because we can do the screed as part of the package.
@malc just because someone in Holland decided they shouldn't screed doesn't mean I shouldn't does it? I'd rather screed than lug 15mm Fireline about for the day!

 

[Deleted member 23452]

We don't use ready mixed screed, always mixed on site in my Winget mixer and barrowed in. Old skool.
We earn good money screeding and get internal plastering work because we can do the screed as part of the package.
@malc just because someone in Holland decided they shouldn't screed doesn't mean I shouldn't does it? I'd rather screed than lug 15mm Fireline about for the day!

Which is fair enough, you're in control of the whole process.

However, as the builder/customer if I can get a different product which at the very least does exactly the same job, and have it in and done in a couple of hours instead of a day, why would I do anything else? That's leaving aside all the faff with having sand and cement delivered (or collecting it on the pickup), getting the mixer on site, having more people on site, shovelling stuff and running around with a wheelbarrow.

 

[malc]

We don't use ready mixed screed, always mixed on site in my Winget mixer and barrowed in. Old skool.
We earn good money screeding and get internal plastering work because we can do the screed as part of the package.
@malc just because someone in Holland decided they shouldn't screed doesn't mean I shouldn't does it? I'd rather screed than lug 15mm Fireline about for the day!

i do feel that the uk is about 20 years behind the european building methods.
i do like screeding, i like the screed that has been through a pump nice and warm and lays easy. we do usually have ready mix on small works. if we have to use mixer we borrow an extra lab for the job. we did have a screed master mixer at one time but i have not seen one for years.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

i do feel that the uk is about 20 years behind the european building methods.

The building industry has a very odd attitude to the best/right product for a job.

'No More Nails' is a good example, some hated it from the outset and refused to use it, and some took it as a mantra to live their lives by bodging everything in sight with it. Obviously neither is right, but together they seem to make up the majority on it. The minority, who see it as an additional option that is perfect for certain tasks are in the minority.

I think for the building industry new products/materials are held back by a combination of fearing change, lack of understanding, old/entrenched habits, a range of utter sh1te products that have been launched as 'the' answer, and unfortunately a lack of understanding both of the required end result and their trade in general.

 

[t33ch]

The building industry has a very odd attitude to the best/right product for a job..

Agreed. Manufacturers push their product and why not, but it's up to the tradesman to keep an open mind and asses the best product for the job. Having said that, if you're s**t hot at laying traditional screed, can get just as good results at a price the client is happy with then go for it.

Liquid screed is crap if you do it wrong. Just like everything else in life.

(btw, no-more-nails is great for plasterers, replastering whole walls because someone tried to take coat hanger down)

 

[beader]

Unifinish.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

Having said that, if you're s**t hot at laying traditional screed, can get just as good results at a price the client is happy with then go for it

Absolutely, for 99% of the requirements I have liquid screed will win out because it's quicker, easier and there's no ordering/organising of materials involved for me. So it saves time, money and effort which is a big plus.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

Unifinish.

The building industry has a very odd attitude to the best/right product for a job.

I think for the building industry new products/materials are held back by a combination of fearing change, lack of understanding, old/entrenched habits, a range of utter sh1te products that have been launched as 'the' answer, and unfortunately a lack of understanding both of the required end result and their trade in general.

 

[malc]

The building industry has a very odd attitude to the best/right product for a job.



I think for the building industry new products/materials are held back by a combination of fearing change, lack of understanding, old/entrenched habits, a range of utter sh1te products that have been launched as 'the' answer, and unfortunately a lack of understanding both of the required end result and their trade in general.

places like the Netherlands have had to move forward with faster materials for the works as they have a shortage of labour. a good majority of the people are educated to university standard and they do not want to enter construction.

the concrete blocks they use which are lifted into place by a small crane , 1 m in length, .5m in hight, dovetailed on all 4 edges they just lock together with a thin corse of ceramic tile adhesive. a single brick layer will take a house up about 2m a day working with just a crane driver.
concrete slabs for both ground and first floor, both liquid screed. internal walls are solid plaster again dovetailed, green blocks for wet rooms, pink blocks for soundproof rooms, magnolia blocks for general living areas.

to plaster, float out reveals, chases and blockwork joints in Knauf gold band, skim walls with Sigma self finish plaster which is premixed in a rubber bag,it set on contact with air. 1 man working alone would be paid around 50 hours to take out a 4 bed house.
all material delivered to site inside a metal container which gives good storage and no unloading.

 

[malc]

Absolutely, for 99% of the requirements I have liquid screed will win out because it's quicker, easier and there's no ordering/organising of materials involved for me. So it saves time, money and effort which is a big plus.

i do not know what a strength test would be like a liquid screed.
i have been on commercial work where the sand and cement screed has to be to class B. after curing for 21 days they give it a slide hammer test from 2 metre hight, if the impression is move then 2mm the screed would have to be removed and replaced.