It's that time of year again

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D4mp

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Condensation and mould season is here, most of these people seem to have no extraction or its turned off.
Educating people on the simple condensation facts is nearly impossible when they think they have to spend money.
 
I thought it was going to be about @zombie love life :D


Love ya Zombie , done it twice this year myself :thumbup:
 
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D4mp said:
Condensation and mould season is here, most of these people seem to have no extraction or its turned off.
Educating people on the simple condensation facts is nearly impossible when they think they have to spend money.
Click to expand...
Whats new :RpS_confused:
 
Hello Keith

Very true, same every year.
Just frustrating when explaining the same thing over and over again.
 
Least your getting paid for the survey ,which in my book is about time ,nothing free about a free survey
 
Our gaffa always try's to get an idea of what he's going to look at on the phone when the quote is booked.

Alway charge for a survey to look at "damp" black bathroom ceilings and window revels. Lol
 
So how much do you charge for condensation then DAMP ?

I am yet to meet a customer who is prepared to pay £100+ for someone to look at condensation.

Many a time I have done them for nowt if I a passing.
 
Hello Adapt

I can understand where your coming from, some people wouldn't pay £5 for a survey. I find people that come looking for you will pay a survey as they know what they will get.
I charge a minimum of £ 120 inc which includes my findings.
Council surveys and dispute stuff generally starts around £450, this includes thermal imaging, and data logging and graphing showing the temperature, relative humidity, dew point. K probes-i buttons are used at dew point areas which can be put into graphing showing the temperature. These can also be fitted behind furniture where there is a mould problem showing a lower temperature and a higher RH compared to the room, this shows this is the cause of the mould problem, not condensation as most people will say.

Click the below link to see what graphing and thermal imaging can show.

Condensation and mould | Welcome to Complete Preservations blog
 
Hi Damp

Yeah its a bit of a pain when people expect you to come and look at their damp issues only to find its condensation rather than anything serious.
I guess I tend to just go for a look on the off chance but I can certainly see why you charge as I have lost count off the amount of jobs I have looked at that have zero work on them.

Condensation is more about building forensics and poor design, and also changing living habits.

I think I am going to have to start to charge people something because I can be at a job for over an hour and time is money after all.

The thermal imaging is interesting stuff but I couldn't afford the £3000+ it costs to buy one, sounds like you must be well set up for your surveys and are probably getting a fair few a week so it pays to have the right tools for the job.

My last survey was 3 weeks ago, property market is very slow and most of the stock selling is modern houses.

I can see the right equipment can really help in nailing the causes right down, data logging etc looks good but I have held back on buying some stuff purely because the customers don't seem to want to pay.

I could get 10 calls about condensation and I bet 8 or 9 of them would put the phone down if I said there was a charge.

Thermal imaginig does look good for external defects, cracked render etc.
 
adapt said:
Hi Damp

Yeah its a bit of a pain when people expect you to come and look at their damp issues only to find its condensation rather than anything serious.
I guess I tend to just go for a look on the off chance but I can certainly see why you charge as I have lost count off the amount of jobs I have looked at that have zero work on them.

Condensation is more about building forensics and poor design, and also changing living habits.

I think I am going to have to start to charge people something because I can be at a job for over an hour and time is money after all.

The thermal imaging is interesting stuff but I couldn't afford the £3000+ it costs to buy one, sounds like you must be well set up for your surveys and are probably getting a fair few a week so it pays to have the right tools for the job.

My last survey was 3 weeks ago, property market is very slow and most of the stock selling is modern houses.

I can see the right equipment can really help in nailing the causes right down, data logging etc looks good but I have held back on buying some stuff purely because the customers don't seem to want to pay.

I could get 10 calls about condensation and I bet 8 or 9 of them would put the phone down if I said there was a charge.

Thermal imaginig does look good for external defects, cracked render etc.
Click to expand...

You can get thermal imaging for your phone now mate for £250-£300 have a look here >> FLIR ONEâ„¢ Personal Thermal Imager by FLIR® - See the Heat°

Obviously you get what you pay for but the only use I can see thermal imaging for is spotting cannabis farms/grow houses before you rob the ganja plants off em :RpS_thumbsup:
 
The Flir 1 looks better than it is, but it's a cheap staring the point. The pictures look good on the website but are pretty crappy in real life, if your looking for a thermal image to point you in the right direction it will help you.
I have solved so many problems for people that surveyors have just guessed at and cost people thousands in unnecessary works.
If your serious about doing it, you need to do a category 1 thermal imaging course, i've seen many reports that somebody has bought one and got the results badly wrong. Reflected temperature plays a massive role in thermal imaging and this is where people go wrong if your looking for quantitative results.
Most of my workings are done off site in the Flir software, if you have many pictures to take using a diffuser it will take bloody ages.

Click the link below, this will show you a .2 degree difference showing hygroscopic salts.

The damp stains on the chimney breast, is it salt damp or a leak? | Welcome to Complete Preservations blog
 
Well interesting reading there DAMP and I must admit when it comes to chimneys you have to really go over them with a fine tooth comb and basically check everything.
We have even found that condensation under the lead work on chimneys can cause issues, so many roofers think they know it all but I am yet to find one who can understand dampness correctly.

So what was your recommendation for that customer, I am not really a fan of capping off chimneys, more into ventilating and using a vented cowl.
Its like every cavity I think, ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.

Your right about salt damp, I have seen it all the time with other companies recommending DPC and its just salts or even worse condensation.

Bloody chemical companies have a lot to answer for sending out guys to be recommended installers after a one day sales pitch.

Everyday is a learning day for me, but the rest of them its a earning day lol
 
Fibrehand7 said:
Hello - as I would like to see before and after and show to customer the difference. Use insulated boards. My toy to play with ? :)
Click to expand...

I see, you could be better off with a data logger to show a visual graph before and after. The walls will reach equilibrium with the room temperature, so if it's cold in there it's more likely that the insulation will be colder than if the heatings on if that makes sense.
If it is of interest to you drop me a message and we can discuss if you like.
 
adapt said:
Well interesting reading there DAMP and I must admit when it comes to chimneys you have to really go over them with a fine tooth comb and basically check everything.
We have even found that condensation under the lead work on chimneys can cause issues, so many roofers think they know it all but I am yet to find one who can understand dampness correctly.

So what was your recommendation for that customer, I am not really a fan of capping off chimneys, more into ventilating and using a vented cowl.
Its like every cavity I think, ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.

Your right about salt damp, I have seen it all the time with other companies recommending DPC and its just salts or even worse condensation.

Bloody chemical companies have a lot to answer for sending out guys to be recommended installers after a one day sales pitch.

Everyday is a learning day for me, but the rest of them its a earning day lol
Click to expand...

Hello Adapt

Thanks for your kind comments.
On this job we used an isolating membrane system, because of the speed of drying and the amount of contamination.

I like your comment, everyday is a learning day for me, but the rest of them it's an earning day
 
Well I guess that is the thing with some jobs you sometimes have to get on with them as waiting for them to dry out can take ages.
We tend to make sure any problem chimneys we come across are adequately ventilated as a sweating stack is always going to cause an issue.

I am doing one at the moment, the chimney pots have been left open but fireplaces are blocked off, and cracks in the render. massive amount of moisture from years and years of water ingress.
I have got a dehumidifier in there and waiting for it to dry out until I can repair it.

I get a lot of enquiries about stack/lead work and its something I am going to do more of as its quite good to pay.

Looked at the Thermal cameras and you can get a flir I5 for about £1500 I thought they were more than that I guess it was a while ago since I last looked so it might be viable to buy one.

What type of camera do you use ?
 
Interesting stuff, I've always struggled with chimney issues. Would prefer to go bib and braces, but, salt neutraliser and Sovereign rendermix ( contains salt neutraliser) , membrane system or line with Dpm, stud and cover with m/r or vapour check board.
Problem is, no one wants to pay the money to get it done properly and go for the cheapest (1st) fix.
 
Yeah your right there spread, its rare to find people who don't see things just as money.

I do find stacks are one of the main issues when it comes to dampness in buildings.

The cheap tradesmen are half the battle, and I mean tradesmen in the loosest term lol
 
I use the E60 BX, which I link to a damp meter (flir MR77). Readings can be displayed on the screen and recorded, it will also do live remote viewing. This damp meter is a different class compared to the MMS especially for the internal environment.

Don't get an I series, get an E series, these will take a jpeg as well as the thermal. The I series pics are terrible and if you take a few in a house you will not know where you took them unless you have a jpeg.
Are you near Wiltshire? If so pop in and I will show you some thermal pics.
 
Home chip do I buttons for about £15
Lascar have one out called a EL-USB-TC with a k probe for about £80

If you wanted to get clever build a k probe into the wall behind the insulation and you can measure the temp inside the wall and on the insulated surface. What insulation are you using by the way?
 
It's difficult to tell you which one you should buy, the people I know that use them wish they never got a cheap one and spent the money on one. That's not to say a cheap one will not show your customer what you want them to see.
 
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