Is the modern rendering sustems easier or harder than the old ways? But

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Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
may seem an odd question butnot so long ago when most work was sand and cement mixed in a Belle mixer and applied by hand most plasterers avoided rendering. Now you see plasterers doing rendering all over the place but the pre mixed pre bagged stuff like Weber for example.

Maybe it is the hand batching and mixing in a Belle mixer was to hard and then carrying it up a ladder in a bucket. Now I see gorrilla tubs dotted all over and whisks buzzing away. But you still habe to carry the bags and water up the scaffold?

Anyway, getting back on course. My other spread of 14 years is getting more and more annoyed at work than ever before. He has always been unreliable at best managing 4 days a week but now struggling to manage 3. No reasons, never turns up on Mondays and hasn't for the ladt 3 years. Never gives a reason. But now he is losing his temper even more and demanding more and more money. But he does not work smart, too hard.

We have just scratched on a semi 3 sides with two small extension, nice block work. I allowed us two and a labourer 3 days and did it in two and a half. Fully beaded and microgobbed and he reckons I am a slave driver? So expecting 2 spreads and a lab to microgob a front of a semi, bead up, apply a pre rend fully meshed is asking too much? He wanted a day for us to micro gob (lab did the house in 4 hours) and fully bead up (45 beads) then a day a side for the 3 of us to apply a scratch coat? AmI missing something here? I used to do a side a day just me and a lab in sand and cement with beads but no mesh but now this modern method seems to him to be harder and takes a lot longer than the old ways.

On machine days he only sprays. He loses his temper and finds it all a struggle. But mug here apparantly has it easy. I only rule, mesh, rule gain, spat and turn back to do the slumps under the sills and soffits. His spraying is crap but he thinks he is good. I have now took on an apprentice to help me on his days off and to help him spray. Now he wants more money so I have given him the sack and he can get in the real world. No day work like me, he can his own way to the job and back and it will be interesting to see if he buys any tools. He has a shopping bag and the last tool he bought was a hand board 2 years ago. No stanley knife, tape measure, margin trowels, spirit level.

Don't get me wrong he works well when he can turn up although he cannot rule off that good but there again who can? The only ones I know who can use a straight edge are plasterers who can Hardwall. Renderers seem to freehand with the attitude 'if it looks flat, then it's flat enough'.

So for those of us that did it the old way and now the new way, which is the hardest mentaly and physically?

Me? The modern way involves lots of faffing about, beading, meshing but the material is easier. Spraying is obviously faster but on day work that is irelevant and easier on the joints but you do have to go like the clappers. But so what? A 4 hour wall is done in two with a good rest in between application amd finishing. But his gripe is the 2 hours spraying non stop, he has forgot about the 4 hours slapping on by hand. But according to him this new mordern way of rendering demands more money than the old ways. He wants to go back dashing.

Ps, anyone know to to edit the heading?
 
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BigK

Private Member
He is a right useless twat by the sounds of it.
In another 6 weeks you'll wonder why you didn't pot him a long time ago.

Two points, firstly I use s&c all the time, but I wouldn't dream of attacking a house (or gable for that matter) with a belle mixer.
It's the big mixer all the way, 5 or 6 barrows in it.

2. Hardwall is a piece of piss to rule. People that use s&c for floating & leave it right are the boys, I usually call them plasterers lol!!
 

Badgerrrrrrr

Well-Known Member
Being old school I am sand and cement born and bread strong in the arm thick in the head lol. But rigsby sounds like your bloke is taking the piss, next he will be expecting you to do all the work turn up for two days a week and still want a full weeks wage !!! .........
 

malc

TPF Special Forces
your plasterer may have a drink problem that is why it can not make mondays.
my eldest son who has his own plastering business does a lot of rendering on sites. he complains about headaches when working with mono. no problems with sand and cement. there must be chemicals in the render to cause these headaches. on the ritmo your plasterer will be breathing in all the dust, does he wear the correct mask? this could be making him moody.
you have said in the past that your workforce do not eat or look after themselves correctly. if he is not eating decent food and then doing manual work his body will not take that abuse.
his behaviour would do my head in , how do you manage to organize your workload?
 

Rossi46

Private Member
Like you say john the newer stuff has a lot more faffing about and fiddling with the meshing, priming, timing for rubbing up, constant cleaning etc. Sand and cement work is heavier and more physical graft but I personally find it easier and enjoy it a lot more. That's what I served my time on though.

That fella sounds like a waster! It's hard finding good lads but your wasting your time with him for sure. Anyone that's keen will want to be buying their own tools and showing willing by being positive and wanting to impress. Good riddance I say!
 
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zombie

Private Member
@Rigsby

tbh mate I don't think its a case of new v old systems I think its more of an attitude,work ethics problem.

From reading your previous posts you've stated that thiss guy has worked for you for many yrs. In my opinion anybody with anything about themselves would have wanted by now to slowly become more involved with all aspects of your business.

Thus eventualy you would come to a natural crossroad with 2 possible options.

1) Venturing into a partnership with equal financial loss or profit on jobs and assets. With all aspects importantly being fairly shared most importantly shared evenings pricing and corresponding with customers etc.

2) Said person deciding to make a start on his own.

For me these are natural progressions for any person in his position.

The problem looks to me like he wants the best of all worlds wants it to be acceptable to turn in when and when not it suits him irrelevant of your workload and more important you for want of a better word are his employer.

Hes clearly got no repect for you mate if he thinks hes a superstar and wants the money he think he deserves let him go and find it for himself.

Put a stake in the ground mate for your own self-respect hes mugging you off!!!
 

Arti

Well-Known Member
may seem an odd question butnot so long ago when most work was sand and cement mixed in a Belle mixer and applied by hand most plasterers avoided rendering. Now you see plasterers doing rendering all over the place but the pre mixed pre bagged stuff like Weber for example.

Maybe it is the hand batching and mixing in a Belle mixer was to hard and then carrying it up a ladder in a bucket. Now I see gorrilla tubs dotted all over and whisks buzzing away. But you still habe to carry the bags and water up the scaffold?

Anyway, getting back on course. My other spread of 14 years is getting more and more annoyed at work than ever before. He has always been unreliable at best managing 4 days a week but now struggling to manage 3. No reasons, never turns up on Mondays and hasn't for the ladt 3 years. Never gives a reason. But now he is losing his temper even more and demanding more and more money. But he does not work smart, too hard.

We have just scratched on a semi 3 sides with two small extension, nice block work. I allowed us two and a labourer 3 days and did it in two and a half. Fully beaded and microgobbed and he reckons I am a slave driver? So expecting 2 spreads and a lab to microgob a front of a semi, bead up, apply a pre rend fully meshed is asking too much? He wanted a day for us to micro gob (lab did the house in 4 hours) and fully bead up (45 beads) then a day a side for the 3 of us to apply a scratch coat? AmI missing something here? I used to do a side a day just me and a lab in sand and cement with beads but no mesh but now this modern method seems to him to be harder and takes a lot longer than the old ways.

On machine days he only sprays. He loses his temper and finds it all a struggle. But mug here apparantly has it easy. I only rule, mesh, rule gain, spat and turn back to do the slumps under the sills and soffits. His spraying is crap but he thinks he is good. I have now took on an apprentice to help me on his days off and to help him spray. Now he wants more money so I have given him the sack and he can get in the real world. No day work like me, he can his own way to the job and back and it will be interesting to see if he buys any tools. He has a shopping bag and the last tool he bought was a hand board 2 years ago. No stanley knife, tape measure, margin trowels, spirit level.

Don't get me wrong he works well when he can turn up although he cannot rule off that good but there again who can? The only ones I know who can use a straight edge are plasterers who can Hardwall. Renderers seem to freehand with the attitude 'if it looks flat, then it's flat enough'.

So for those of us that did it the old way and now the new way, which is the hardest mentaly and physically?

Me? The modern way involves lots of faffing about, beading, meshing but the material is easier. Spraying is obviously faster but on day work that is irelevant and easier on the joints but you do have to go like the clappers. But so what? A 4 hour wall is done in two with a good rest in between application amd finishing. But his gripe is the 2 hours spraying non stop, he has forgot about the 4 hours slapping on by hand. But according to him this new mordern way of rendering demands more money than the old ways. He wants to go back dashing.

Ps, anyone know to to edit the heading?
Can't you just find some better labour, John?
 

leebo02

Well-Known Member
should have got rid of him ages ago rigsby, you've not been happy with him for ages, having him on board should have been making your life easier not causing you grief and headaches
 

Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
Malc, you are not far off. He was a heavy drinker but his dad and brother died of alcohol and he has slowed down but he is a person that you cannot motivate with money. Yes of course he will take easily achieved money but that is not in my favour. You see he lives from pay packet to pay packet. If he has enough to get by till next pay day then he knocks. The more money he earns the more he smokes and probably drinks so money is not much use to him.

Walks everywhere as he does not drive as does my lab. Both skinny but the lab is fit as f*ck! something is going wrong with him though. Mood swings, temper tantrums. He was excited at first with me adopting the modern ways but it is the faffing about he can"t cope with. it has to be simple.

But this is the deal we had. With me getting slower at 58 and having getting over tennis elbow I do all the tedious slow and boring stuff what he struggles with and he does the slapping on. But I think he is thinking that without him I am snookered which to a point is right. When he turns up I do the 3 man walls and save the two man walls for when he knocks. works to a point but I turn up every single day and always have. Not once have I ever threw a sicky. 100% reliable. But I would like the odd day off say once a month to get the books done. but these lads need me on the job.

He doesn"t see my point of view. getting jobs done on time to break even on the wages bill, keeping on schedule.

But I have learnt this year to only take on 3 weeks work a month and it has worked so far. But it is not right.

Anyway, hopefully this apprentice might work out but the time he has started to get into it it will be the low season. Can he put up with being laid off in winter? I do get a grant but that barely pay's his holidays, training days at Geason, expenses to Manchester at Geasons. There will be some money in the grant towards some days off in winter but you have to guarantee 30 hours a week.

Time to hit the job centre I think.
 
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Wezly

Well-Known Member
Because I do it in the evenings after I have done my administration work and wifey is watching some boring soap on tv.
How is your machine Rigsby? I heard through the grapevine you had some dramas with accelerator?
 

malc

TPF Special Forces
there are loads of people who can not hang on to a pound and they are a pain in the arse always wanting a sub to get through the week. i think that your plasterer will be banging on your door saying how sorry he his very soon.
if he needs extra money then he needs to get him self there for a full five days every week.
 

Rendex

Active Member
New verses old,there both hard because no matter what if your laying by hand or spraying with a machine your trying to put on as much as you can to earn,were in affucking hard game full stop.anyone on here saying this is a piece of piss and that's a piece of piss ain't working hard enough.
 

Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
How is your machine Rigsby? I heard through the grapevine you had some trouble?


Picking it up tomorrow morning. Virtually had every part that water goes through replaced including the water pump.

accelerator is to blame apparently. Damn! Long days it is then.

So, apart from Weber and Patex accelerators at silly money per tub, does anyone know of any machine friendly accelerators?
 

Rendex

Active Member
Ps rigsby for extra m2 you need to put on to cover his money it probably ain't worth the hassle mate,get rid,you can only mummy them so much mate
 

Wezly

Well-Known Member
Even the brands own leave sediment in my water barrel to be honest. I think I'm gonna start using sas HBS and do over nights in the minute.
 

Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
Even the brands own leave sediment in my water barrel to be honest. I think I'm gonna start using sas HBS and do over nights in the minute.

Yes! It is knowing your brands and setting times plus insulation on the house (heat loss).

For example Enewall is known for being really slow at setting. So great for Autumn with too short a days and long but too warm a nights. But useless in winter. Weber in winter is late spray early scrape but most are afternoon spray and morning scrape. This time of year is ok with Weber but the consequences? Or a long day with Parex.

Autumn is awkward though. But Parex makes a retarder? So on heated domestics a late spray and early scrape? At least reduces the lost sleep due to worry of it being rock hard next morning.

But for August? Say Parex? 10 hrs or add some hurry up or retarder but who's and what cost?
 

Dansouthcoast84

Private Member
f**k me this is a bedtime story.

Sand cement easier applied. Harder to look right and warrant.

New system.soo many stages. Good finishes.

Havent used ocr doesnt seem cost effective. And heard it micro cracks
 

Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
Even the brands own leave sediment in my water barrel to be honest. I think I'm gonna start using sas HBS and do over nights in the minute.

Sas silicone is defo an overnighter but the worst I have sprayed. Not used HBS yet but it sounds good.
 

Rendex

Active Member
Rigs we're sprayed by 10 finished by 3 pm but that's with a diesel,I think it mixes the excell3000 into the mono better than an electric machine.even with parex retarder this's time of year it's rock hard the next day mate.the axcell 3000 works out about 50p m2
 

Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
Rigs we're sprayed by 10 finished by 3 pm but that's with a diesel,I think it mixes the excell3000 into the mono better than an electric machine.even with parex retarder this's time of year it's rock hard the next day mate.the axcell 3000 works out about 50p m2

Thanks Rendex. Can you pm me some decent suppliers.

I was think of retarder more for in the Autumn.
 

Andy M

Active Member
We always spend time on the ruling John and my mates a stickler for it.
He brings the feather edge up the scaffold and jabs the render showing low spots which are sprayed back in and re derbied.
Makes a big difference when the I section comes out and it's pretty much there already. As for yer man,you should of potted him eons ago the jobs tough enough without that sort of s**t on top.
 

Jgreenplastering

Private Member
People get to comfortable now a days.
They take it for granted and always think the grass is greener.
I pay my lads day rate and then bonus for doing a good day/finishing job earlier than planned.
It's swings and roundabouts.
Look after them they should look after you.
Obviously I don't know what you pay him so depends on situation.
I'd also allow a little more than what you have to do the work mentioned but I'm not the quickest of spreads admittedly.
Doesn't sound like you over expect from him but he sounds like he's set in his ways and you've done the right thing.
He prob forgets he doesn't have to do anything apart from the work so he shouldn't be earning mass amounts as your the one who puts the graft in to get the jobs source materials, paperwork etc.
I do find if you have someone and they are on a day rate all the time they end up set in there ways and think I'll only do this much as I'm only earning x amount, which is way I offer them a bonus/extra here and there.
 
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