Insurance backed guarantees

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user_removed

Well-Known Member
Does anybody offer these?

If so, how? and who with?

I am pricing work up rendering and offer the customer my own personal guarantee if they agree to the way i would like to do the job, i also offer them the manufacturers guarantee, all this on paper and i would stand by it if needed (touch wood no problems yet)

What are insurance backed ones, why when iv spoken to these insurance companies do they tell me they won't insure render as its too risky, basically repairing render back to its original state is not the same as replacing a part on a boiler or replacing a broken window, but yet some customers are asking me if i have insurance backed guarantees.

serious question, is it something i need or is it just salesman BS
 

user_removed

Well-Known Member
so iv just got off the phone to a insurance backed guarantee provider that only cover 1 rendering company in the UK

the cover is not for poor workmanship, damage, weathering, product failure while the company or sole trader is still active its for if the company go bust and cease trading.

the same insurance provider don't cover ANY internal plastering (even though they say they do on the website)

I'm just waiting for a quote from them now after sending a few template quotes over.
 

Pug

Well-Known Member
I don't see how you can insure plasterwork. Too many variables. I always tell customers that if they have a problem with any work I've done within reason, I'll put it right but beyond that it's in the lap of the gods!
 

user_removed

Well-Known Member
i have priced a job this morning against someone thats offering a 10 year insurance backed guarantee on rendering.

i have just spoken to said insurance backer and they will only mirror you own personal guarantee so if you offer 3 years which i do, they will cover every job for 3 years, if i went bust after 2.5 years the insurance backers will pick up the remaining 6 months, however, the longer your guarantee, the less chance they'll insure it so if you wanted a 10 year one, its very unlikely anyone will touch you.
 

zombie

Private Member
Tbh Mac I think your trying to hard!... I get that you like to be professional but at the end of the day a builder can build a 40k extension and he sure ad hell doesn't provide an insurance backed guarantee.

Just give them your terms be upfront and sell yourself the rest is all bullshit IMO.....I mean let's be honest an manufacturer guarantee doesn't mean anything I'd love to hear of 1 that's stood by it yet!
 

themucky1

Well-Known Member
I think the insurance you are referring to could be swiga but they will only guarantee Ewi but you do have to be vetted and pay a subscription fee and I'm sure your audited also, it does cost but it's a selling point, from a customers point of view if anything happens to you or your company and anything goes wrong with their property they can have it repaired by a third party, you also have to pay £79 plus vat per house you put into the swiga guarantee.


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user_removed

Well-Known Member
Tbh Mac I think your trying to hard!... I get that you like to be professional but at the end of the day a builder can build a 40k extension and he sure ad hell doesn't provide an insurance backed guarantee.

Just give them your terms be upfront and sell yourself the rest is all bullshit IMO.....I mean let's be honest an manufacturer guarantee doesn't mean anything I'd love to hear of 1 that's stood by it yet!

I disagree about trying too hard, I just wanted to see what it was all about.

Facts are that more and more are coming into the render game and pushing some bullshit onto customers and it's getting worse, I'd rather be in the know and be a little clued up so I can at least have an answer for the customers.

If I'm losing £5-7k render jobs because someone mentions insurance backed guarantee it would be a wise move to check it out.

A 5 minute phone call and a thread on here and I might be in a better position next time
 
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user_removed

Well-Known Member
I think the insurance you are referring to could be swiga but they will only guarantee Ewi but you do have to be vetted and pay a subscription fee and I'm sure your audited also, it does cost but it's a selling point, from a customers point of view if anything happens to you or your company and anything goes wrong with their property they can have it repaired by a third party, you also have to pay £79 plus vat per house you put into the swiga guarantee.


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If anything goes wrong with the render and your still trading the insurance is worthless, your liable to put it right from what I understand.
 

themucky1

Well-Known Member
If anything goes wrong with the render and your still trading the insurance is worthless, your liable to put it right from what I understand.
If it's a manufacturers fault then it would be down to them to rectify the issue, if the manufacturer has gone bump then the swiga guarantee would cover this, but if it's an end user error then you would be live for the defect


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user_removed

Well-Known Member
If it's a manufacturers fault then it would be down to them to rectify the issue, if the manufacturer has gone bump then the swiga guarantee would cover this, but if it's an end user error then you would be live for the defect


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It's all b*ll***s I know.

I was wanting to know what angle the insurance covered from which I think I have now and see if it was any good, which it isn't.

Poor workmanship we cover

Faulty products the manufacturers cover

It's a bullshit sales tactic that's being used to prick the ears up of a potential customer, it gets mentioned 2/3 times a year when pricing and I wanted to be 100% about it
 

user_removed

Well-Known Member
Basically if something goes wrong 99% of the time it's going to be on you.

The manufacturers warranty, insurance companies will always find a way of getting out of it whoever is at fault
 

Jgreenplastering

Private Member
Basically if something goes wrong 99% of the time it's going to be on you.

The manufacturers warranty, insurance companies will always find a way of getting out of it whoever is at fault

That's exactly how I see it.

They look good to present to clients but that's about it.
There's only so much you can do before you turn a 5k domestic render job into a 10k by worrying about anything that could cause damage to the render.

Cracks and movement are the worst.
I try to mesh all my render but at the end of the day that crack could still appear as you don't actually know what has caused it.

It's one of those things unfortunately, we may be putting new render on a wall but that wall isn't new so what can you do?

Even over a new house things can happen that aren't directly down to the renderer but because it makes the render look bad it's assumed that it most of be done by bad work etc.


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zombie

Private Member
@mac...didn't mean it as negative as in trying to hard I just think sometimes we come away from pricing jobs and overanalise how we performed with the customer and then agonise over prices.

I've just done the same this morning for a decent full house internal refurb and outside to thin coat. I've chewed on it all day. I know I won't get it ad its for a developer fela and its just bottom line to them. One of those jobs where you just can't sell the quality aspect just either decide if prepared to be dry bummed or not do the job...aghhhhhhh
 

owls

Private Member
Your insurance backed warranty is what you issue on completion from you and the said manufacturer, if you acredited , that's all anyone else is offering.most are 10 years some, enewall ewi is 30 years against product defect,if your experienced done it by the book, if you've followed best practice and they've specked the project your covered.you can only insure against your workmanship and the product anything out of they remit such as structural movement obviously you can't.
 

user_removed

Well-Known Member
What about weber, we have done the courses but haven't heard anything from them since, they don't seem bothered about smaller jobs.

Is it even possible to get any paperwork from them on a £5k job
 

user_removed

Well-Known Member
Your insurance backed warranty is what you issue on completion from you and the said manufacturer, if you acredited , that's all anyone else is offering.most are 10 years some, enewall ewi is 30 years against product defect,if your experienced done it by the book, if you've followed best practice and they've specked the project your covered.you can only insure against your workmanship and the product anything out of they remit such as structural movement obviously you can't.

Weber and the like are not interested in specing a 3 bed semi in Rotherham though are they?
 

Rigsby

TPF Special Forces
I found a insurance company Chris that would insure me for a % of the contract value. But my turnover was not enough so they wanted £2200 minimum commision. Simply not worth it.

I would not worry about the few 10 year warranties that are flying around. Let the suckers who fall for it have it. Do your job correctly by the book and anything that goes wrong is not down to you and can be proven. It is either the manufacturer (unlikely) or the customers fault (likely) and can be proven.

I was in the Federation of Master Builders once and subscribed to their warranted builders sceme. They for 5% would issue a 5 year warrany. Well for structural but read the small print and rendering came under cosmetic so they only gave a 2 year warranty. Even NHBC only gives 3 years on cosmetic on a new build.

Keep to your principles Chris and stand your ground if some arsehole tries to blame you for something you are not responsible for. Give me a call and I will sort the F*#ckers out.

You can always go Ltd. At least if you do drop a bollock you can wind up but as said, do it by the book and you will have nothing to worry about. That bitch I had with that Weber job would get a f#*k off tablet if I knew then what I know now.
 

Pagey

Private Member
I know you got to look at your options but when these people say they offer that 10 year guareentee pound to a penny they won't be around in 10 years but you will be,fustrating this game at times,and seems the more professional you are the harder it gets
 

Pagey

Private Member
So when a damp proofing firm gives a guareentee its only for the injection not the plastering that goes with it?
 

owls

Private Member
What about weber, we have done the courses but haven't heard anything from them since, they don't seem bothered about smaller jobs.

Is it even possible to get any paperwork from them on a £5k job
That is what area reps are there for, to work for the applicator, on domestic projects I've issued paperwork to joe public, for 2 grand aswell as one for a developer recently for 47 grand.
I agree you know yourself there's not much substance to a manufacturer/ applicator warranty but to joe public when you complete your paperwork on completion and hand over the folder it looks the business, and seperates you from the chancers. Most don't ask for a warranty, that's good for me as it saves me filling out endless paperwork but if they do ask, so be it.
 

user_removed

Well-Known Member
Yes K'rend, mapei, Parex with a push have all been good and responsive.

Weber don't seem interested and it's why iv stopped using them along with other reasons.

I agree it looks the business passing on a warranty and we try to do it and have done many a times, but when a customer asks for a top job and your getting questions about this insurance shite.

The job I priced today was against someone who was going to strip a dashed concrete house, render with weber straight on it with "mesh around the Windows" poor lass had never heard of rend-aid, would this get a guarantee?
 

owls

Private Member
Yes K'rend, mapei, Parex with a push have all been good and responsive.

Weber don't seem interested and it's why iv stopped using them along with other reasons.

I agree it looks the business passing on a warranty and we try to do it and have done many a times, but when a customer asks for a top job and your getting questions about this insurance shite.

The job I priced today was against someone who was going to strip a dashed concrete house, render with weber straight on it with "mesh around the Windows" poor lass had never heard of rend-aid, would this get a guarantee?
I'd be weary going over any existing rendered substrate to be honest.
 

Jgreenplastering

Private Member
Why's that?


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Not trying to start anything mind,
I just think that no matter what you go on there is potential for trouble.
New builds are smashed up so quick and the blocks are barley set before they are rendered, sometimes also soaking wet.... Then you have old render that if on solid will cause more damage to the bricks coming off and it would be detrimental to the substrate, so better to go over the existing render.

Every job has many different variables and I think just because it's new build doesn't make it any better than something that's been there 20 plus years.




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User___removed

Well-Known Member
I would and have done quite a few jobs where I have used parinter with a dpr texture finish
As said I wouldn't go any thicker mind
 

Jgreenplastering

Private Member
A thin coat fair enough, ie a parinter and dpr but I'm weary of scratch renders etc, the thicker the render the more chance of delamination.
But yes every job on its merits I guess.
We usually parinter and Monorex over painted render as specced by the rep so total about 15mm total. So far so good but time will tell I guess.
Is DPR the arcrylic stuff? So does that go straight on a parinter base coat that's been floated? Or parinter, Parmurex then DPR?


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