First commercial job need advise.

M

Meijer

New Member
Hi guys, just like to say I have been reading this forum for a few years and it has helped me alot with this trade I have fallen in love with.

So a bit of back story about my self, I have been plastering on my own for 5 years, I currently have 2 other guys working with me, we have mostly only done domestic plastering where I have been pricing jobs based on a mixture of guide prices for the area I am working in and how long a room will take with a base day rate.
Recently I have been recommended by my biggest client to a commercial job, as it stands, i have never priced a commercial job.

Can any one advise me as how to make sure I am being paid correctly.
How will I calculate what has been done daily?
Do I go around and measure each wall, calculate sqm of each wall and add it all together ?
Should they provide a drawing with the total sqm of each area?
Any advise will really be appreciated guys thanks alot.
 
Meijer said:
Hi guys, just like to say I have been reading this forum for a few years and it has helped me alot with this trade I have fallen in love with.

So a bit of back story about my self, I have been plastering on my own for 5 years, I currently have 2 other guys working with me, we have mostly only done domestic plastering where I have been pricing jobs based on a mixture of guide prices for the area I am working in and how long a room will take with a base day rate.
Recently I have been recommended by my biggest client to a commercial job, as it stands, i have never priced a commercial job.

Can any one advise me as how to make sure I am being paid correctly.
How will I calculate what has been done daily?
Do I go around and measure each wall, calculate sqm of each wall and add it all together ?
Should they provide a drawing with the total sqm of each area?
Any advise will really be appreciated guys thanks alot.
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Get in touch with a quantity surveyor that's a start
 
Should I be paying for it ? Shouldn't they have that on hand ? It's 3 buildings and according to him its 15000 sqm.
 
Meijer said:
Well some advise would be appreciated as to what to look out for
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You have asked some really basic questions, which says to me you shouldn’t get involved in it really.

For example

How can I calculate what has been daily. My 7 year old daughter could work that out if I gave her the information.
 
You will need to agree m2 price with client,,,, you will also need to give them your terms & conditions, ,,getting paid is the biggest problem, , you will also need a good bit of cash to pay your lads because I doubt you will get paid quick. A jump from what your doing the now too a job that size is very risky. If you do it take measure at end of week, ,if you agree price you have a target your lads will need to do each day to cover them and profit. Let them supply all materials unless you want that, ,,a job that size will take you into a vat reg if you ain't yet.
 
i think that works with that meterage is not in the league of a gang of 3. you need a larger work force, to keep up to program.
commercial work is at a higher rate then other building works. these jobs can be good earners with large areas.
 
Meijer said:
Should I be paying for it ? Shouldn't they have that on hand ? It's 3 buildings and according to him its 15000 sqm.
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I would pay for it, build it in your price. 15k Sqm is a fair amount, you might be thinking of subbing some of it if not most of it out, have you got enough money in the kitty to float the job for a couple months?
These jobs usually time sensitive, for 3 lads doing that much even if you work 24/7 would take you a few months
 
Meijer said:
Hi guys, just like to say I have been reading this forum for a few years and it has helped me alot with this trade I have fallen in love with.

So a bit of back story about my self, I have been plastering on my own for 5 years, I currently have 2 other guys working with me, we have mostly only done domestic plastering where I have been pricing jobs based on a mixture of guide prices for the area I am working in and how long a room will take with a base day rate.
Recently I have been recommended by my biggest client to a commercial job, as it stands, i have never priced a commercial job.

Can any one advise me as how to make sure I am being paid correctly.
How will I calculate what has been done daily?
Do I go around and measure each wall, calculate sqm of each wall and add it all together ?
Should they provide a drawing with the total sqm of each area?
Any advise will really be appreciated guys thanks alot.
Click to expand...

Can you not get it on day rate?
 
zombie said:
What F*****g planet are you off!
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Why not? Seen it done in just that way enough times - especially on developments that roll rather than jobs that are all ready to go. Gaffer submits his bill after a fortnight and gets paid a week after that.

Lets them use smaller contractors like our friend here because he's not up to neck in it with his lads for £30k plus by the end of the job.

Win.
 
I hope your lads are on the books and your insurance covers all of you. I would leave it to a firm with experience or ask if you can jump on with them to see what it’s like.
 
Meijer said:
Well some advise would be appreciated as to what to look out for
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My advice, based on what you've said about where you are and the job, would be to say "thanks for considering me, but it's too big.". The reason I say that is if you get the pricing wrong you'll loose your shirt, if they don't pay on time (either clerical error, them spanning it out, or because of retention & terms) you'll loose your shirt. You need experience and a healthy bank balance to go after jobs of this size, and even then you can end up going bankrupt. You also need to be a VAT reg'd Ltd Co to fish in that pond.

You can make no money, or even a small loss for years and still keep going. A cashflow problem can take you down in three months.
 
Thanks for the guys who replied. The money is good, we have agreeded to 6 quid a sqm which I think is a really good price. I have 8 guys actually. 4 of us and 4 of another team who is doing it at 4quid Sqm. The job is labour only.
I think the deal is the guy who took me on, he gets lots of jobs gives a price big projects and he gets smaller guys like me, he has agreeded to pay a weekly cash stipend and every 2 weeks have a estimate of what's done and pay the balance. Is this a normal procedure ?
 
zolco said:
I would pay for it, build it in your price. 15k Sqm is a fair amount, you might be thinking of subbing some of it if not most of it out, have you got enough money in the kitty to float the job for a couple months?
These jobs usually time sensitive, for 3 lads doing that much even if you work 24/7 would take you a few months
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Yea I can float it for a month no issue but I have told him if you don't pay on time work stops. We agreeded to every 2 2.5 weeks
 
zolco said:
So basically you subbing off of someone and then you subbing some of it out
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Yes I think that's the deal. He has taken 8 developments. 3 are ready now, hence the 15k sqm. I have a mate who I started with years ago who has 3 spreads. Honestly don't care if payments are late work stops.
 
Meijer said:
Honestly don't care if payments are late work stops.
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Which is fine, but you still owe all the wages and now that period of months that was booked up is now empty. So you owe a chunk and have nothing coming in, which is exactly what I was referring to with cash flow. There's seven to be paid excluding you, plus the other three you can call in. Say £200 a day, for 10 working days = £2000 times the ten blokes leaves you owing £20k if it all goes Pete Tong, plus whatever your own outgoings are.

That's a lot to find if you have nothing in the book for a couple of months because you've fallen out over a late payment.
 
imago said:
Which is fine, but you still owe all the wages and now that period of months that was booked up is now empty. So you owe a chunk and have nothing coming in, which is exactly what I was referring to with cash flow. There's seven to be paid excluding you, plus the other three you can call in. Say £200 a day, for 10 working days = £2000 times the ten blokes leaves you owing £20k if it all goes Pete Tong, plus whatever your own outgoings are.

That's a lot to find if you have nothing in the book for a couple of months because you've fallen out over a late payment.
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Well as I see it he still owes the funds and he is under pressure to keep things moving along. I see your point where things can go Tits up.
Maby I will pass.more of it along.
 
Meijer said:
Well as I see it he still owes the funds and he is under pressure to keep things moving along. I see your point where things can go Tits up.
Maby I will pass.more of it along.
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He does, and you would probably get it eventually as not everyone's a rouge trying to rip people off. It's just that sh1t sometimes happens. If he doesn't get paid for example, he can't pay you and the sh1t rolls down hill.

I'm not saying you can't do it, but if you do you need to go in eyes wide open to all the ways it can go t1ts up. If the gamble pays off you could make very good money, if it doesn't unless you can afford to take the hit and carry on you're fcuked.

If you're going to take a risk with five figure sums, then maybe look at buying a house to do up. Much better margins, and you're in control all the way down the line.
 
If you now the guy really well and trust him 100 percent shouldnt be a prob. But what if you do two and half weeks and he says i.ll have it next week then week after before you know it a month no cash etc etc seen it happen few times
 
First commercial job need advise.
 
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