Damp Problems?

[Fish]

Hi  It's been recommended that I ask here about a potential damp problem I have . ( I think he may be a member here I'm sure he will make himself known if he is )

Some background first
We first noticed signed of damp well over a year ago and spent that time on the phone receiving various empty promises from our landlord
Last week after involving the council he finally got his finger out and sent some guy's out to sort it.

They removed the plaster and drilled holes about 1/2 brick apart and about 3-4" from the floor and injected some white stuff into the holes.
After that they applied a thick coat of some grey stuff which was mixed up in a mixer and then the plaster on top of that .

They finished plastering about a week ago and the plaster has not dried properly and has developed some white fluff on the part which isn't dried properly .

Basically Ive been told it looks like the damp is still there ... but as everything involving the landlord is a uphill struggle I would prefer to be sure before I start hassling him again.

I'm not a builder so I wont know the names / terms for the stuff they used , I have described it as best I can but feel free to ask me more questions and I will do my best to answer.

Here are the picture's which make it look much worse then it is. ( I'm not a photographer either  : )

I would greatly appreciate any opinions you have as I'm pretty fed up of the whole fiasco now.  

Many Thanks

Steve.

 

[Thomas]

Aye, thats me.

As i say, it still looks damp to me. After six days of drying, even finish on top of bonding should be dry.

White fluff? I have never had this, but i imagine having any fluff after the customer has had damp is a bad sign.

Opinions?

After six days of drying, it looks to me like there is still the same problem of dampness getting in.
I have gave my opinion, that the guys who the landlord got in has not done a spiffing job.

Anyone got any ideas to controvey that?
Cheers

BTW, this guy is a good mate of mine The tennent and poster. Not his landlord

All help appreciated

 

[bigsegs]

damp walls can take up to a year to dry out properly...
the 'white fluff' your seeing is salt, or to be more precise 'hygroscopic salt', which basically means its water borne..
upon injecting for a new dpc (damp prood course) which it seems is what they did, using cream as opposed to silicon based fluid (it works in a slightly different way but is still effective if done correctly), the next thing is to render the wall (grey stuff in the mixer)
This should be a mix of sand and cement with an additive, namely waterproofer/plasticiser/and the important bit in relation to this job SALT REPELLANT/NEUTRALISER.. an all in one product that comes in 5 litre tubs or 25 litre tubs...
without this additive the salts will be drawn through to the surface as it dries manifesting itself as a 'white fluff'
the damp course should work long as its done correctly and they havent bridged accross where they drilled with the render and plugged the holes they drilled with a mix of sand/cement and sbr (styrene butamol something or other, another concentrated waterproofing agent)
any good damp proofer would know about the salts...
sounds like they missed a trick, and the landlords on the cheap, however, 'salt neutraliser' on its own is available from most builders merchants in 5 litre tubs for around a tenner, clear liquid, smells like battery acid, scrape off the salt and paint the neutraliser over the affected area, this should stop it coming back...
give the wall another week or two and you should see some improvement...
if not, all theyve used in the mix is plasticiser and it'll be damp till the wall dries out which could take another year...
all this is assuming the cause of the damp was a failed dpc in the first place... it could have been any number of reasons...

 

[Fish]

damp walls can take up to a year to dry out properly...
the 'white fluff' your seeing is salt, or to be more precise 'hygroscopic salt', which basically means its water borne..
upon injecting for a new dpc (damp prood course) which it seems is what they did, using cream as opposed to silicon based fluid (it works in a slightly different way but is still effective if done correctly), the next thing is to render the wall (grey stuff in the mixer)
This should be a mix of sand and cement with an additive, namely waterproofer/plasticiser/and the important bit in relation to this job SALT REPELLANT/NEUTRALISER.. an all in one product that comes in 5 litre tubs or 25 litre tubs...
without this additive the salts will be drawn through to the surface as it dries manifesting itself as a 'white fluff'
the damp course should work long as its done correctly and they havent bridged accross where they drilled with the render and plugged the holes they drilled with a mix of sand/cement and sbr (styrene butamol something or other, another concentrated waterproofing agent)
any good damp proofer would know about the salts...
sounds like they missed a trick, and the landlords on the cheap, however, 'salt neutraliser' on its own is available from most builders merchants in 5 litre tubs for around a tenner, clear liquid, smells like battery acid, scrape off the salt and paint the neutraliser over the affected area, this should stop it coming back...
give the wall another week or two and you should see some improvement...
if not, all theyve used in the mix is plasticiser and it'll be damp till the wall dries out which could take another year...
all this is assuming the cause of the damp was a failed dpc in the first place... it could have been any number of reasons...

Thanks for the reply ... I almost understood most of that .

Just to clarify are you saying that the wall needs the neutralizer and then will be better in a week ?
Or that the wall may be better in a week or so without the neutralizer?

In other words, do I need to pester the landlord for the next year or so or will it come right on it's own ?

IF it's the latter should I just scrape the salts off or will I do more harm then good?

Sorry for being such a numpty.

 

[bigsegs]

well mate, it does sound likely that the landlord has got it done on the cheap, without actually surveying the job myself or in the absence of a detailed survey I cant say too much for sure with regard to whether its been fixed or not.
what i will say is this, best case scenario - the damp was caused by dpc failure, it was injected correctly, no bridging occured with the rendering and all they did wrong was use waterproofer/plasticiser in the render. The specific additive should have had a salt repellant in it too, the way round this is to scrape off the salt with maybe an old tdk cassette case and treat the area with salt neutraliser you can buy from the builders merchants. The wall should dry in a week or so..
Still, I tend to think no waterproofer has been added either, only plasticiser, in which case the wall could take ages to dry, and the problem hasnt really been cured... move house, or excersise whatever rights you have...
further information would help such as...
did you see the van the lads came in? was it sign written and a legit damp proof company?
did anyone come and survey the job prior to the lads turning up or is the landlord a damp proofer or similar?
is your house old? if so how old? what is the wall construction e.g. cavity (250mm thick) or solid (anything from 200 - 300 mm thick)
where is the ground level (outside) in relation to the dpc? (ground should be 150mm below front/back door cill level)
i take it with the window being there its an outside wall or is there an old conservatory or similar behind the window
are there any leaky drainpipes/wastpipes in the area just outside the window?
is there anything stacked against the outside wall? e.g. coal/wood/rubbish/anything that could hold water
what condition is the external wall in? is it knackered? i.e. full of holes that need repointing?

to clarify, if the job was done correctly you wouldnt have salt manifesting itself on the internal wall, but it may take another week or maybe a bit longer to dry properly so you can paint it, and if you do paint it it needs to be porous paint so the wall can breathe' i.e. dry out...
sorry mate but damp problems can be a real git and best left to people with experience...
one thing i can say is it ISNT condensation, salt manifestation means water is being drawn from within the wall, which means theres water in the bricks, how it got there is what a dp company will first establish before treating...

 

[bigsegs]

sorry, just realised something else..
looking at the picture the salt seems to be concentrated under the window, is this correct?
if so, without being certain, the water ingress could be caused by the window itself, not a dpc problem at all, and this should have been fixed before any remedial plastering took place...
as i said, damp problems / water ingress, a right minefield for the inexperienced...
where exactly in relation to the window was the origional damp patch? how big was it? and did it come from the floor up or the window down?
a trick to see if the walls drying out is to draw a pencil line round the damp patch, leave it a few weeks and see if the patch has shrunk, grown, or gets worse when it rains a lot...
p.s. i take it that lambs tongue skirting was removed when they injected the wall? and thats either a new section or they put the old stuff back on?

 

[Fish]

I will do my best to answer, but the as you seem to think that the problems is still there I will get the Landlord in to have a look anyway.

It was a property maintainance company with a sign written van cant recall the name off hand but It will come back to me at some point.

They came round and had a look beforehand but not a tremendously long/hard one. they measured up and used what I presume was a damp meter on the wall. but not much else.

Don't know the age or the construction I'm afraid

The DPC they injected is about 3-4" above the door cill level and I cant see any sign of a DPC on the external wall ( but I might be missing it ) but the door/floors are about 12" off the ground' So the NEW DPC is about 16" off the external ground level

It is an outside wall. with nothing outside it apart from air

No drains or pipes outside the windows at all and no sign of leaking guttering

Nothing stacked outside

Cant see the condition of the outside wall because the whole wall from about 12" up is rendered ( I think thats the right term for it)

the damp patch was right along that external wall and along two internal wall's but the worst section was what was behind the couch on the left (between two windows)

The damp came from the floor up

its new skirting which they fitted (taller then the original I presume that was so they didnt cover over the holes ? am I right?).

Basically I'm not looking to treat it myself , partly because I cant as you have pointed out but mainly because it isn't my wall and I shouldn't have to ( in fact the contract states that I don't have to).

All I'm after is confirmation that the damp has not been sorted and something further needs to be done. Or at least a best guess so that I can pester the landlord into doing the job properly.

I have a horrible feeling that If I just rang up and told him there was white fluff he would have explained how normal it was while the wall was drying out .

I cant thank you enough for your help so far , if nothing else I am armed with some small knowledge for when I tackle the landlord.

 

[christ]

isnt not gona solve your probem but you could paint the wall with thomson damp seal it works a treat, it would look alot better 2

also alkiline resisting paint to prevent salts

 

[bigsegs]

Dont paint the wall with anything other than porous breathable paint, even better dont paint it at all (sorry ta, it'll stop the wall drying out)
now then,
sounds like the injection was completed correctly
sounds like the cause WAS a failed dpc
ground level should be AT LEAST 150mm, you can get away with just over a course of bricks but its not recommended so thats ok..
if i did the survey, i might not be there long either, if you know what your looking for, a few details can confirm it in a few minutes...
the skirting (new) is good, there because they SHOULDNT have renderered down to the floor or bridged the new dpc..therefore a larger skirting has more plastered wall to grab hold of.. all good..
before you shoot anyone, property maintenance company - not a dedicated damp company but absolutely no reason why they shouldnt have damp proofers working for em, and i think like this... maybe they dont come accross damp properties every day, so, they order / obtain their materials to suit the job which would mean popping down the merchants.. maybe they grabbed a tub of waterproofer/plasticiser which just didnt contyain any salt repellant/neutraliser... the stuff they mainly use for outside rendering where a neutraliser isnt required, its only used for damp jobs, very similar, just missing that one ingredient..
so, heres my advice, scrape it off, see if it comes back. If it does you can either ask the landlord to obtain some neutraliser for you and paint it on, if everything else is done correctly it'll do the trick, or get some yourself to save the delays...
I repeat, DO NOT paint the wall with anything other than porous paint for new walls... better to leave it.. even brand new properties on newbuild estates have a clause in the sale which prohibits the new owner fom decorating within a year, this is to allow the property to dry out fully.. any water trapped in a surface will just cause problems..
good luck mate..
just to help you relax a little, a cream/gel injection is drilled into the mortar joint and not the bricks like a silicone emulsion, even if they didnt do both sides of the wall thats not to say they didnt double drill it i.e. drill the outside skin from the inside skin... no reason to, but they may have..

 

[Fish]

so, heres my advice, scrape it off, see if it comes back. If it does you can either ask the landlord to obtain some neutraliser for you and paint it on, if everything else is done correctly it'll do the trick, or get some yourself to save the delays...

Ok then
Thanks for the advice.

I wont be doing the decorating anyway , as thats another job for the landlord.

I will scrape it off and keep an eye on it.

Im sure the damp patch has retreated a little this morning but I cant be sure. so I will keep an eye on that as well.