Bit of advice

cerealuk

New Member
Good evening, wondering if I could pick your collective brains please? :)

I have recently purchased a house that needed a full renovation. The ceilings were artex and in a bad way (looks like the central heating guy had put his foot through a few of them when trying to fit the new system a couple of years prior and there was some water damage). I decided to rip them all down and start again.

it is a bungalow and the roof trusses are 600mm centres so I put up new 12.5mm plasterboard, what I didnt do though was install noggins (I have read that 600 centres is fine with 12.5mm board - though it seems there are ongoing debates about that within the trade). The plasterer came in and skimmed 4 of my ceilings, however a few days later when dried I noticed some cracks where the joints were. Now I am 99% sure he scrimmed them and 2 coats were used however nasty cracks have formed in all rooms in places.

Situation is that the plaster refuses to accept that he could be at fault etc etc but that aside my solution currently (unless anyone else has suggestions) is to spend this weekend installing noggins then to have the ceilings all reskimmed. My plan is as follows:

1) pop up into loft and look down so I can see the joints in the plasterboard.
2) install noggins using 38 x 58 CLS by placing over the joints and screwing into the trusses
3) make small pilot holes in a few places to the side of the noggins so I can see where they are from below
4) use these hols as a guide to fire a lot of screws through the plastered board into the noggins
5) get the ceilings reskimmed (which the joints being rescrimmed again (using the new screws as a guide)

does this sound like a sensible approach or am I missed something? Also will it need 2 new coats (making it 4 total)?

Cheers
 

Nath80

Well-Known Member
Good evening, wondering if I could pick your collective brains please? :)

I have recently purchased a house that needed a full renovation. The ceilings were artex and in a bad way (looks like the central heating guy had put his foot through a few of them when trying to fit the new system a couple of years prior and there was some water damage). I decided to rip them all down and start again.

it is a bungalow and the roof trusses are 600mm centres so I put up new 12.5mm plasterboard, what I didnt do though was install noggins (I have read that 600 centres is fine with 12.5mm board - though it seems there are ongoing debates about that within the trade). The plasterer came in and skimmed 4 of my ceilings, however a few days later when dried I noticed some cracks where the joints were. Now I am 99% sure he scrimmed them and 2 coats were used however nasty cracks have formed in all rooms in places.

Situation is that the plaster refuses to accept that he could be at fault etc etc but that aside my solution currently (unless anyone else has suggestions) is to spend this weekend installing noggins then to have the ceilings all reskimmed. My plan is as follows:

1) pop up into loft and look down so I can see the joints in the plasterboard.
2) install noggins using 38 x 58 CLS by placing over the joints and screwing into the trusses
3) make small pilot holes in a few places to the side of the noggins so I can see where they are from below
4) use these hols as a guide to fire a lot of screws through the plastered board into the noggins
5) get the ceilings reskimmed (which the joints being rescrimmed again (using the new screws as a guide)

does this sound like a sensible approach or am I missed something? Also will it need 2 new coats (making it 4 total)?

Cheers
Unfortunately you did the boarding to save labour costs which is fair enough but it gives you no chance of getting original plasterer back to rectify. If there's any doubt he scrimmed them then just hack a small bit back on one of the cracks and check.
As above, if you didn't stagger the board's they'd almost certainly crack every time
 

cerealuk

New Member
only variable here is this is the first time I have used this plasterer to plaster ceilings where its a fresh board (previous work he did for me was over Artex). Not trying to blame the plasterer necessarily as he has been in the game a long time but looking for some guidance as to whether my methology to rectify it seems sound. My mindset with a lot of stuff is that s**t happens and I will never know for sure so just get on and solve it :)
 

cerealuk

New Member
Are you getting the same plasterer back, or has he politely declined?

He was very quick to dismiss that he could possibly be at fault. I have paid him in full as the walls were good that he did and for the sake of a few hundred quid I cant be doing with hassle when I can neither prove of disprove it was him. Undecided but I would probably use someone else in order to remove that variable
 

John j

Mono Don
We did a ceiling every joing cracked othe rplasterer said . Then he went back and they had all disappeared
 

Pl plastering

Well-Known Member
Yep as above,nowt to do with plasterer,as said did you stager boards? Put enough screws in etc? Were your boards tight and no big f**k off gaps? Could be owt really but certainly nothing to do with the plasterer
 

cerealuk

New Member
Yep as above,nowt to do with plasterer,as said did you stager boards? Put enough screws in etc? Were your boards tight and no big f**k off gaps? Could be owt really but certainly nothing to do with the plasterer

its a bold statement to say its nothing to do with the plasterer when you dont know him or haven't seen the work (not saying it is but nobody can 100% say for sure). To answer your questions:
- I got told I used too many screws (always have done)
- boards were nice and tight
- No gaps

As mentioned previously I just wanted to check that my method mentioned in the first post was sound (e.g drilling small pilot holes to locate noggins) and that im not missing a trick.
 

cerealuk

New Member
Cross batten at 400 , overboard , stagger boards .
you've taken one expensive chance don't try it again

sorry, what do you mean by cross batten at 400? I have 600 centres and was going to retrospectively batten every join between them :)
 

hector

Well-Known Member
same old story really ,should have got a plasterer in from the start let him do the boarding,but they must have that new tv/kitchen,instead of getting important work done first ,now got more expense/hassle/work,no sympathy to be honest
 

cerealuk

New Member
same old story really ,should have got a plasterer in from the start let him do the boarding,but they must have that new tv/kitchen,instead of getting important work done first ,now got more expense/hassle/work,no sympathy to be honest

*sigh* of course a plasterer could never be at fault... plasterers are 100% perfect at all times - sorry if you thought that I suggested otherwise

Anyway back on track, I'm not sure I ever asked for opinions on who's fault it was - I was asking for some advice as to how to move forward (retrospective battens)

Again ever so sorry if I have offended your feelings...
 

cerealuk

New Member
same old story really ,should have got a plasterer in from the start let him do the boarding,but they must have that new tv/kitchen,instead of getting important work done first ,now got more expense/hassle/work,no sympathy to be honest

oh also the plaster I used doesn't do boarding.. go figure..
 

Pl plastering

Well-Known Member
*sigh* of course a plasterer could never be at fault... plasterers are 100% perfect at all times - sorry if you thought that I suggested otherwise

Anyway back on track, I'm not sure I ever asked for opinions on who's fault it was - I was asking for some advice as to how to move forward (retrospective battens)

Again ever so sorry if I have offended your feelings...
Answear like that and ull get f**k all advice here son
 

FreeD

Private Member
Simple fix...buy yourself a roll of paper dry lining tape from Toolstation and some Toupret filler...fill out the joints, bed the tape in, feather out the joints...sand when dry...cracks won't come back.

Done this loads of times, it's a shitty job but while you are doing it you can appreciate why it's best to get an experienced spread in and pay decent money to someone who will advise you accordingly to avoid issues like this.
 

Pl plastering

Well-Known Member
Simple fix...buy yourself a roll of paper dry lining tape from Toolstation and some Toupret filler...fill out the joints, bed the tape in, feather out the joints...sand when dry...cracks won't come back.

Done this loads of times, it's a shitty job but while you are doing it you can appreciate why it's best to get an experienced spread in and pay decent money to someone who will advise you accordingly to avoid issues like this.
Got robbo written all over it as this job :popcorn:
 

Stewie03

Well-Known Member
The only fault I could put on the plasterer who done the job is if you didn't stagger the boards he should've known when he came to quote the job and told you of the possibilities of it cracking the fact there's cracking on all the ceilings you have boarded suggests you haven't staggered the boards,if your looking for quick cheap fix free D method seems to be within reason for a diy like your self if not,the next option would be what bof said and cross batten at 400 and board again
 

FreeD

Private Member
The only fault I could put on the plasterer who done the job is if you didn't stagger the boards he should've known when he came to quote the job and told you of the possibilities of it cracking the fact there's cracking on all the ceilings you have boarded suggests you haven't staggered the boards,if your looking for quick cheap fix free D method seems to be within reason for a diy like your self if not,the next option would be what bof said and cross batten at 400 and board again

Thing is a good spread will see joints not staggered and say...should be staggered re do...he will also see the screws 600 apart and suggest screws 150 apart on joints and render mesh instead of scrim over the joints.

Pay peanuts get monkeys!!
 

Stewie03

Well-Known Member
Thing is a good spread will see joints not staggered and say...should be staggered re do...he will also see the screws 600 apart and suggest screws 150 apart on joints and render mesh instead of scrim over the joints.

Pay peanuts get monkeys!!
Agree with you completely mate like most people that wanna do the boarding themselves think no problem measure,cut the board,screw it into the joists job done plaster boarding gets treated as diy by a lot of customers but if they did research there's actually abit more to it than that the amount of times I've had to tell customers there boardings s**t and It needs doing again they think your taking the piss to make a fee extra Bob off them
 

hector

Well-Known Member
oh also the plaster I used doesn't do boarding.. go figure..
sincerely honestly cerealuk,i like getting replies like this ,it shows i have hit a nerve/sorepoint/bullseye,but you still have not answered my colleagues question,
1.did you board it
2. did you stagger the joints
3.are you a fireman or engineer or a teacher
4.honest answers to above would explain a lot
 

TonyM

Private Member
Simple fix...buy yourself a roll of paper dry lining tape from Toolstation and some Toupret filler...fill out the joints, bed the tape in, feather out the joints...sand when dry...cracks won't come back.

Done this loads of times, it's a shitty job but while you are doing it you can appreciate why it's best to get an experienced spread in and pay decent money to someone who will advise you accordingly to avoid issues like this.
I’d use Fibafuse. If he’s inexperienced then the paper will probably fail. Fibafuse is foolproof
 

Nath80

Well-Known Member
Got robbo written all over it as this job :popcorn:
Assume you mean me. If I turned up to a job and they hadn't staggered the board I'd point out they should be staggered and the customer would go ah right is it a problem? Decent chance they'll hairline crack tbh, do you want me to plaster it or reboard the ceiling? I guarantee any customer tight enough to board it themselves will say plaster it and hope for the best. So I'd take their money and skim it
 

Pl plastering

Well-Known Member
Assume you mean me. If I turned up to a job and they hadn't staggered the board I'd point out they should be staggered and the customer would go ah right is it a problem? Decent chance they'll hairline crack tbh, do you want me to plaster it or reboard the ceiling? I guarantee any customer tight enough to board it themselves will say plaster it and hope for the best. So I'd take their money and skim it
Nail on the head robbo
 

cerealuk

New Member
sincerely honestly cerealuk,i like getting replies like this ,it shows i have hit a nerve/sorepoint/bullseye,but you still have not answered my colleagues question,
1.did you board it
2. did you stagger the joints
3.are you a fireman or engineer or a teacher
4.honest answers to above would explain a lot

1) I boarded it
2) Yes I did stagger the joints
3) None of the above lol

To give some background, I dont claim to be any kind of expert but I have boarded a large number of ceilings in the past and this is the first time I have had a problem - most have been 400mm centres (this is only the 2nd house I have done which has had 600mm centres with the last one having no problems at all).

I'm not tight with money by any stretch, just I like to do what I can myself and then stop and get someone in when I hit my limits (plastering being one of those things), yes I'll f**k things up from time to time but thats part and parcel of DIY and I will learn and redo it - more often than not everything goes well so the good far outweighs the bad and I enjoy it. If you read my original post I really dont care if he's at fault or I am, what I was hoping for I some non judgmental advice as to my next steps to correct it. e.g is the idea of installing noggins with the board in situ from above, re-screwing from below and then getting a plasterer to re-scrim and plaster over it again a viable option? Currently there is no insulation in place so its dead easy for me to crack on with it. If I do go for the above do I just noggin the joints (so they are 1200mm apart or do I need some in the middle of the board also?

Side note for reference the plasterer was well aware that I didnt use noggins and never raised it as an issue, he also noticed the cracks part way through the job but continued to work on another ceiling without letting me know and only told me once all the work was complete.
 
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