An interesting read....

Pagey

Private Member
Happened for years I know of firms that have made people go ltd to get around tax stuff ect
 

john simpson

Well-Known Member
I posted a similar rant about this a while back.
i worked with a guy , six years with same company , company logo on van yet self employed.
So days off with no pay when job not ready , no sick pay , no guarantee of work , no pension etc.
If he went away to take a better paid job for a few weeks he would be sacked.
not an accident either , the se60 was set up to stroke the working man
 

solway

Active Member
What a load of bollox. "Forced to go self employed...really...j Simpson saying 6 years with same company,company logo on van etc. No holiday pay,no benifets,not paid on day's off. Lads I think alot of people need a wake up call here. I swear sometimes it's like running a babysitting service. If your self employed get as much as you can for your'SELF' and if your not happy move on. This is just another political stunt to get more money/tax from companies. That plasterer in the tabloid saying he'd be earning under the minimum wage....bullshit. He's a bigger dope for "being FORCED into self employment" Iv had a ltd company for the last 20 years. Late 90's poor,boom good money made like self employed did like employees did like companies did. Boom crashed everyone suffered. Last 10 years very tough but managed to keep my company afloat and things going well again. Through the recession I had no sick pay, holiday pay,guarantee of work in fact I never had that. It's all just a rant and begrudgery and spitefulness. If your not happy move the f**k on and do something about it. Don't moan and whinge and feel unappreciated. What a load of bollox. If your self employed you don't need to give any notice to move on whenever you feel like it. Loop holes are in the system for a reason......
 

gps

Well-Known Member
What a load of bollox. "Forced to go self employed...really...j Simpson saying 6 years with same company,company logo on van etc. No holiday pay,no benifets,not paid on day's off. Lads I think alot of people need a wake up call here. I swear sometimes it's like running a babysitting service. If your self employed get as much as you can for your'SELF' and if your not happy move on. This is just another political stunt to get more money/tax from companies. That plasterer in the tabloid saying he'd be earning under the minimum wage....bullshit. He's a bigger dope for "being FORCED into self employment" Iv had a ltd company for the last 20 years. Late 90's poor,boom good money made like self employed did like employees did like companies did. Boom crashed everyone suffered. Last 10 years very tough but managed to keep my company afloat and things going well again. Through the recession I had no sick pay, holiday pay,guarantee of work in fact I never had that. It's all just a rant and begrudgery and spitefulness. If your not happy move the f**k on and do something about it. Don't moan and whinge and feel unappreciated. What a load of bollox. If your self employed you don't need to give any notice to move on whenever you feel like it. Loop holes are in the system for a reason......


Mr solway you are spot on, great post.
 

john simpson

Well-Known Member
what a load of bollux?
Think your working a bit hard love and need to take her a bit easy ;)
Stress is a killer!

anyways
not everyone can be as perfect and exemplary as you are so in this lads case he is offered steady work and with a large mortgage and three kids he needs that over anything else , as much as he would like to be a free agent he cant take a chance of losing a contract or a non payer or a job being cancelled.
Rest of the builders/contractors are offering the same gig so pointless to him to swap employers
So he feels its best for the family that he stays with the regular income till the house is paid.

But ill pass on your sage advice to just "move on" and take that 2 month job thats offering the big money and dont be worrying about mortgages and the like
 

gps

Well-Known Member
what a load of bollux?
Think your working a bit hard love and need to take her a bit easy ;)
Stress is a killer!

anyways
not everyone can be as perfect and exemplary as you are so in this lads case he is offered steady work and with a large mortgage and three kids he needs that over anything else , as much as he would like to be a free agent he cant take a chance of losing a contract or a non payer or a job being cancelled.
Rest of the builders/contractors are offering the same gig so pointless to him to swap employers
So he feels its best for the family that he stays with the regular income till the house is paid.

But ill pass on your sage advice to just "move on" and take that 2 month job thats offering the big money and dont be worrying about mortgages and the like



Listen in the building game we work as self employed people, it's very clear from the outset.
Plenty other jobs in this world no one is forced to be a plasterer.
 

Stevieo

Royal Spin Doctor
what a load of bollux?
Think your working a bit hard love and need to take her a bit easy ;)
Stress is a killer!

anyways
not everyone can be as perfect and exemplary as you are so in this lads case he is offered steady work and with a large mortgage and three kids he needs that over anything else , as much as he would like to be a free agent he cant take a chance of losing a contract or a non payer or a job being cancelled.
Rest of the builders/contractors are offering the same gig so pointless to him to swap employers
So he feels its best for the family that he stays with the regular income till the house is paid.

But ill pass on your sage advice to just "move on" and take that 2 month job thats offering the big money and dont be worrying about mortgages and the like

But Ireland is a socialist country. Anyone who works for the govt is treated very well indeed. Same as people who work for large companies. My mate trousers £29k for stacking shelves.

Bus Eirin drivers trouser £50k.

Bertie Ahern made more than Barack Obama.

They don't understand capitalism very well.

I don't see though, how a nation that turns its nose up at £12bn (it's true https://euobserver.com/tickers/138753 ) can honk about £75 million from guys just trying to get by.

'You could buy an aircraft carrier with that money, or become a nuclear power' I enthused to my Irish chum.

'What de f**k would we be wanting with an aircraft carrier?...' Shouted the Irishman, sensing that he was on a hiding to nothing. 'We'd rather spend it on de healt service?'

'Well, you use them to stop Spics helping themselves to your Islands', I countered.

'De only c**ts who's been helping demselves to our islands is yous bastards' Yelled the Irishman, waving his arms. 'And our six counties.'

'Well, You could always go on the rob with it.' I suggested helpfully. ' Find someone who hasn't got an aircraft carrier or a nuclear submarine and put the frightners on them', I continued with a straight face. 'Spend half of it on the health service and the other half on another nuclear submarine.'

'For f**k'S SAKE!!!!!!' Roared the Irishman, realising that he was being wound up but unable to help himself and slamming down his Guinness. 'You're not even joking, are you?'
 
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D

Deleted member 23452

Guest
'Self employed trades in the building industry shocker!' :rolleyes:

When has it ever been any different? As @solway pointed out, in the good times you can earn very well, in the bad times not. The brighter blokes save a bit knowing that the sh1t will hit the fan roughly every ten years (as it always has). Those who are very good will keep their head above water even in times of little work about, the rest and the unlucky will struggle.

It's the nature of the industry, and it won't change for a host of reasons that you can either read up on or work out for yourselves. So if that's too risky a way to earn a living then you have to look at getting out when and how you can.

Guess what would happen if everyone in the building game was employed by a company when the bad times came round? They'd be unemployed the same as happens in every other industry.
 

gps

Well-Known Member
'Self employed trades in the building industry shocker!' :rolleyes:

When has it ever been any different? As @solway pointed out, in the good times you can earn very well, in the bad times not. The brighter blokes save a bit knowing that the sh1t will hit the fan roughly every ten years (as it always has). Those who are very good will keep their head above water even in times of little work about, the rest and the unlucky will struggle.

It's the nature of the industry, and it won't change for a host of reasons that you can either read up on or work out for yourselves. So if that's too risky a way to earn a living then you have to look at getting out when and how you can.

Guess what would happen if everyone in the building game was employed by a company when the bad times came round? They'd be unemployed the same as happens in every other industry.


Well said.
 

Stevieo

Royal Spin Doctor
'Self employed trades in the building industry shocker!' :rolleyes:

When has it ever been any different? As @solway pointed out, in the good times you can earn very well, in the bad times not. The brighter blokes save a bit knowing that the sh1t will hit the fan roughly every ten years (as it always has). Those who are very good will keep their head above water even in times of little work about, the rest and the unlucky will struggle.

It's the nature of the industry, and it won't change for a host of reasons that you can either read up on or work out for yourselves. So if that's too risky a way to earn a living then you have to look at getting out when and how you can.

Guess what would happen if everyone in the building game was employed by a company when the bad times came round? They'd be unemployed the same as happens in every other industry.

The issue isn't that the work comes and goes though. It's that employers are supposed to offer perks.

If you work for someone else every day, then you should get your perks. The boss can't just announce that it's a self employed position in order to avoid his employer responsibilities.
 

gps

Well-Known Member
The issue isn't that the work comes and goes though. It's that employers are supposed to offer perks.

If you work for someone else every day, then you should get your perks. The boss can't just announce that it's a self employed position in order to avoid his employer responsibilities.



Wtf ? do you understand what self employment is ?

Are you saying people have been in work not realising it's a self employed position lol
 

Stevieo

Royal Spin Doctor
Wtf ? do you understand what self employment is ?

Are you saying people have been in work not realising it's a self employed position lol

Seems some employers don't understand what employed is.

I know that the Isle of Man got onto this little wheeze and put a stop to it. Don't know if UK did.

They said that if you worked for a specific period .... say, 6 of 9 months or whatever, then you worked for the man and the man had to pay you holidays and other employment benefits.

It's really simple. If you go to work every day for the man and the man tells you what to do and pays you a wage, then you are employed by the man.

And him saying that you're self employed shouldn't cut it.
 
D

Deleted member 23452

Guest
The issue isn't that the work comes and goes though. It's that employers are supposed to offer perks.

If you work for someone else every day, then you should get your perks. The boss can't just announce that it's a self employed position in order to avoid his employer responsibilities.

I do understand your point, and completely agree that large companies will take the p1ss wherever they're able to. However there's one guaranteed way to avoid it happening to you. Don't work for them. If they struggle to get bodies on site they loose contracts and have to answer to shareholders.

I've worked for some huge companies employed and self-employed, and I've only ever done it when it worked for me, as soon as it didn't I was off. If you want loyalty buy a dog, because you won't get it by being an employee nor an employer.
 

Stevieo

Royal Spin Doctor
I do understand your point, and completely agree that large companies will take the p1ss wherever they're able to. However there's one guaranteed way to avoid it happening to you. Don't work for them. If they struggle to get bodies on site they loose contracts and have to answer to shareholders.

I've worked for some huge companies employed and self-employed, and I've only ever done it when it worked for me, as soon as it didn't I was off. If you want loyalty buy a dog, because you won't get it by being an employee nor an employer.

This can involve walking away from your trade.

I did it in about '09 when transport wages were starting to get to the point that they weren't much above minimum wage.

Minimum wage was a hair short of £6 and Eddie Stobart was paying a hair over £7.

When enough people do it, then it forces the wages up but it's a very painful thing to do. Luckily, I'd built up a good sideline in my spare time so I was able to turn my hobby into a profession fairly easily.

Not so easy for most people which is why many will keep banging their heads against the wall, no matter how bad things get.
 

solway

Active Member
The Dublin city councillor Andrew keegan worked as a carpenter for 30 years and never knew he wasn't entitled to social welfare benefits if he was out of work.....30 years!!!haha haha what a load of horse s**t. This prick has seen an opening for votes in the next election.
The newspaper heading is "the biggest con going" wtf. There's alot more serious things going on around the country/world than to be making up rubbish like this.
J Simpson he is a "free agent" if he is self employed. And as for trade unions,don't get me started on them. They are as corrupt as any mafia/politician/religion. I used to pay weekly contributions to a plasterers union for about 10 years(7 quid a week) guess what...they never did anything for me and a couple of years ago the leaders of the union were done for tampering with the funds(800k had gone missing)
You are never going to get rid of uncertainty of work in the building industry
If you want a steady income and guaranteed work don't go into construction,become a priest.
 

solway

Active Member
J Simpson you need to get your head out of your arse and realise that some canny c**t has thought up of a plan to squeeze more tax out of companies. This is all it is,just like water charges,property tax,self employed not really being self employed if they are working for a company for a certain length of time. Who decides on this certain length of time. Enough time to make up a story about self employed not really being self employed....f**k me this is ridiculous
 

zolco

Private Member
Seems some employers don't understand what employed is.

I know that the Isle of Man got onto this little wheeze and put a stop to it. Don't know if UK did.

They said that if you worked for a specific period .... say, 6 of 9 months or whatever, then you worked for the man and the man had to pay you holidays and other employment benefits.

It's really simple. If you go to work every day for the man and the man tells you what to do and pays you a wage, then you are employed by the man.

And him saying that you're self employed shouldn't cut it.
That's the same in the UK, after 6 months they meant to put you on the books, but to avoid that they use umbrella firms.
In my eyes those moan about self employment who get a f**k**g rebate every year
 

Stevieo

Royal Spin Doctor
That's the same in the UK, after 6 months they meant to put you on the books, but to avoid that they use umbrella firms.
In my eyes those moan about self employment who get a f**k**g rebate every year

Sometimes agency drivers opt for umbrella firms.

Usually the deal is that they pocket an extra £2/hr - which is fair.

I have no idea how the builders sort it over here.
 

Hawk&Trowel

Member
The Dublin city councillor Andrew keegan worked as a carpenter for 30 years and never knew he wasn't entitled to social welfare benefits if he was out of work.....30 years!!!haha haha what a load of horse s**t. This prick has seen an opening for votes in the next election.
The newspaper heading is "the biggest con going" wtf. There's alot more serious things going on around the country/world than to be making up rubbish like this.
J Simpson he is a "free agent" if he is self employed. And as for trade unions,don't get me started on them. They are as corrupt as any mafia/politician/religion. I used to pay weekly contributions to a plasterers union for about 10 years(7 quid a week) guess what...they never did anything for me and a couple of years ago the leaders of the union were done for tampering with the funds(800k had gone missing)
You are never going to get rid of uncertainty of work in the building industry
If you want a steady income and guaranteed work don't go into construction,become a priest.
The plasterers union do nothing but promote and support absolute Donkeys! All con men
 
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