Advice on internal float and skim of stone built cottage

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huck

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Ok..

Must be every spreads nightmare(unless fully familiar with very old farm/mill properties and there renovation)

ive a job to price that involves the removal of lime mortar on all internal walls of a millworkers cottage aprox 200 years old,taking it back to the uneven cauble/bedrock stone underneath(these walls are very uneven)and then re applying a floated sand/cement/lime and skim finish.
the existing finish can range in thickness from barely coating the stone in one place to several centimetres thick in others.the walls are obviously not plumb and retain a cottage feel of that period.wooden skirting boards at the base.my dilema is..
  • costing/time scale as its not a straightforward float over block/brick on reasonably flat walls
  • best preparation method and ratio/mix for walls of that substrate
  • material cost/amount per mtr with chosen finish.
  • pricing fiddly bits,corners(solid or dowel)/reveals/alcoves ect

there are obviously several things to take into consideration when trying to accurately and competitively price a job of this type so that it doesnt bite you in the backside,so if there are any spreads that could give me some good sound advice on the various points i made above,and any other things i need to take into consideration when it comes to submitting my quote.i;d really appreciate the help..

cheers
 
If your taking lime off, shouldn't you be putting lime back???

Jobs like this are best done on a day rate.

How do you normally quote for work???
 
Do you need to achieve a specific thermal conductivity?
Does the client want a flat smooth straight plumb finish? The place was never built with one and such an approach would be completely out of keeping and in my opinion , destroys the character of period properties.
If i had the choice, would put it back in lime work.
 
hi Carlos,thanks for your input.
in answer to your questions..
in theory and money permitting then yes,lime would seem the best option for the age and period of the property.
that being said,other options are surely worth taking into consideration to give the client the various choice according to budget.
i do very little large scale work of this kind these days,as majority is domestic work.and its not the kind of job you come across every few months unless you work in an area dominated by period properties that require such renovation.
as for the day rate,in a perfect world a day rate would be wonderful,as most might agree..but in this current climate of treble/double bust your balls dip recession,customers are far more aware of there spending,and i'm also doing the job for an architect/builder that is pricing the plastering into the whole project.he is unaware of the plastering needs so cannot advise.
so in order to quote competitively for the work,a price or meter rate is required.
i hope this helps to answer your questions..
 
hi sub
thanks for your questions

the thermal conductivity has not been specified but as the walls are i suspect without cavity or very little,it may be worth mentioning it to the architect/builder to discuss with the client.
lime work is at the moment my first thought,and as ive not got lengthy experience in this specialist area of the trade,its something that i would consider using with the right help/advice from anyone in the forum that takes time to give there genuine helpful advice.
for me, character is key,i also own and live in one of the identical cottages,so the undulations and quirky corners are what gives the cottage its charm,so obviously putting it back on in that way is the way forward.again,its quite an art to put stuff on the wall in that way as it was 200 years ago.flat and polished like a babies backside is whats usually required on most things these days,so a change of habits required to get your head into a different style of application.
 
A s+c render should be fine if the client won't pay for the lime.

Prices and metre rates are not discussed on the forum, so you will have to work your price like this.

How many metres a day do you think you can do? Say 30.

How much is you day rate? Say £150.

Divide day rate by amount expected to complete a day.

So £5 a metre.
 
Have won exactly the same job give or take, 17th century house, back to stone work, put in a price for izonil breathable plaster, which is similar to lime but without the curing times,

after going through with them and educating them on walls breathing etc. they couldn't afford to do the izonil, so asked me for another quote.

i then quoted on s&s with Soverign additive, which knock a grand off the bill!

there was no immediate signs of damp ect, but said I can not guarantee it.

Sbr the walls before also
 
hi spanky

i think my options are s+c float with lime added,then a lime based skim finish.

can i ask why you would sbr the stone? i was just going to treat it like render to be honest,brush down the loose stuff,give the walls a good drink then apply?
 
mayti said:
taken lime of so i would use lime again
Click to expand...

in an ideal world mayti then yes,i agree..but unfortunately money depicts the outcome.as ive said below i think my options are s+c float with lime added,then a lime based skim finish.just a case of getting the right ratio to allow the walls to breath properly.
 
huck said:
hi spanky

i think my options are s+c float with lime added,then a lime based skim finish.

can i ask why you would sbr the stone? i was just going to treat it like render to be honest,brush down the loose stuff,give the walls a good drink then apply?
Click to expand...

Slurry coat 2 parts cement 1 part SBR brushed on will seal plus provide a better adhesion.

If you are using cement in the mix with lime it will not breath..

Should be using a proper lime mix 3 parts coarse sand 1 part lime, but you aren't going that route anyways so wouldn't bother with Lime at all just additives
 
carlos said:
won't
Click to expand...

but it wont breath anyway because he wont be using lime? he wants to use S&S with some lime which will not breath so might as well just use an additive.

If the customer wont pay for lime then what else can he do..

I assume he will have advised the customer of the properties needs

A builder friend mentioned something to me when we were talking about this, so long as the wall can breath from one side surely it should be ok? I don't know and im not convinced but what do you lot reckon?
 
huck said:
hi Carlos,thanks for your input.
in answer to your questions..
in theory and money permitting then yes,lime would seem the best option for the age and period of the property.
that being said,other options are surely worth taking into consideration to give the client the various choice according to budget.
i do very little large scale work of this kind these days,as majority is domestic work.and its not the kind of job you come across every few months unless you work in an area dominated by period properties that require such renovation.
as for the day rate,in a perfect world a day rate would be wonderful,as most might agree..but in this current climate of treble/double bust your balls dip recession,customers are far more aware of there spending,and i'm also doing the job for an architect/builder that is pricing the plastering into the whole project.he is unaware of the plastering needs so cannot advise.
so in order to quote competitively for the work,a price or meter rate is required.
i hope this helps to answer your questions..
Click to expand...

other opticians other than lime are

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I've a job like this to go and see, customer wants walls all nice, smooth and modern. It's an old cottage with lime plaster on walls, how would you go about doing it or should i just leave it as apart from limelite never used any lime plasters.
 
stuart23 said:
I've a job like this to go and see, customer wants walls all nice, smooth and modern. It's an old cottage with lime plaster on walls, how would you go about doing it or should i just leave it as apart from limelite never used any lime plasters.
Click to expand...

If its single skin stone walls but they want a modern look, then maybe you should go for the stud work and board route, it will be much cheaper than lime etc, the issue with my job is they wanted tradition without the cost.. Ie they don't want ultra flat walls with sharp angles.

Metal frame or scant, insulate, foil backed board are cheapest or there is other boards out there that are purpose build for it I think.

maybe someone will give you another optician
 
SpankySouthport said:
If its single skin stone walls but they want a modern look, then maybe you should go for the stud work and board route, it will be much cheaper than lime etc, the issue with my job is they wanted tradition without the cost.. Ie they don't want ultra flat walls with sharp angles.

Metal frame or scant, insulate, foil backed board are cheapest or there is other boards out there that are purpose build for it I think.

maybe someone will give you another optician
Click to expand...
Eyes are fine buddy :RpS_thumbsup:

Would you strip all plaster back to brick before doing stud work?
 
I would use MF stud, as moisture can't travel through it, it will never rots etc etc, if the walls are reasonably flat then you could get the wall fixing tracks rather than the standard stud frame again a saving..

Good luck with it anyways bud!
 
You could fix eml mesh with screws / rawlplugs and then dub out with bonding a couple of times trowelled in but not ruled off too much and then a rough skim to cover , so that way you get a sound job but you kep the traditional rough plaster look , lol remember not to close in too much lol
stuart23 said:
I've a job like this to go and see, customer wants walls all nice, smooth and modern. It's an old cottage with lime plaster on walls, how would you go about doing it or should i just leave it as apart from limelite never used any lime plasters.
Click to expand...
 
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