new self employment rules

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algeeman

It’s A Boy
Not 2 sure what its all about ....but have heard a few lads saying its gonna hurt large contractors.

Anyone know any details on this ??
 
IS this another attempt to force everyone onto the books?.
You tick those boxes re subcontractors every month,the rules are here and have been but the recession stopped them been enforced,lots pay employees through agencies to get around this,
 
Ive spoke too a few smaller contractors roughly hiring 30 men ...have said they would have to cease trading if the new rules are enforced.
 
Firms will not play holiday and sick pay ,there is no chance, some will fold before this happens, each man will end up pricing and supplying making them proper subcontractors
 
So this is a better way for the average self employed plasterer.....a chance to price the units directly themselves ??

Cutting out the middle man ??
Some of the laws state if your to carry on employing lads (self employment)
You HAVE to be onsite working with them !!
 
So this is a better way for the average self employed plasterer.....a chance to price the units directly themselves ??

Cutting out the middle man ??
Some of the laws state if your to carry on employing lads (self employment)
You HAVE to be onsite working with them !!
The law is as far as I remember a real sub contractor has to price work,has to supply materials etc, an employee is paid by the week/month,does not supply or price ,
 
So then your contracting and sub contracting will be done away with unless you are fully employed by a firm ?
 
So this could end up bad for subbies ??
Like lots of unknowns ,it depends. The work will always need to be done, if you are a small firm with 2/3 employees and are now responsible for paying NI ,holiday pay,sick pay,etc,have to have contracts for employees ,can't just sack them it might be too much for some,
 
Been saying it for years.as long as your invoice to contractors doesn't say 40 hours @ 15 ph for example.
It needs to look like they have given you a price for the work they do
It's a game really . Depends on how you play it and if everyone is on the same page,
 
s**t I'm a sole trader and was thinking of doing down the route of being ltd and getting another spread or labourer/improver but f**k that now, I'm too small to deal with that!
 
Like lots of unknowns ,it depends. The work will always need to be done, if you are a small firm with 2/3 employees and are now responsible for paying NI ,holiday pay,sick pay,etc,have to have contracts for employees ,can't just sack them it might be too much for some,
This had been the case for years, there's nothing new about it.
 
Been saying it for years.as long as your invoice to contractors doesn't say 40 hours @ 15 ph for example.
It needs to look like they have given you a price for the work they do
My accountant said the exact thing. No mention of days or hours just state "works as agreed £xxx" on the lads invoices and that keeps them off your back
 
They also look at the amount of time a subby is working for a particular contractor without supplying materials.

Basically it's the same deal as the IR35 business was/is for IT people. If the sub-contracting is being used to dodge employing someone they'll jump on it. So if you work at the same site for months, only working not supplying materials, then it's a job and not contracting.

In other words if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ........
 
This had been the case for years, there's nothing new about it.

Quite right, it was introduced in 1999. The 'new' part is to do with which industries they focus on. It was IT 'consultants' first, then things like people being made redundant from big companies Like Jaguar Land Rover and being taken back in a contractors which meant they paid less tax.
 
This rule has been around for a few years now. If you employ a labour subby over a period of time they are deemed as employees. You will have to pay employee NI on their earnings.

There are ways around it. Price work is one. There has to be a risk of loss to be deemed as a subby. If the subby cannot lose as cor example being paid by the hour then you have a problem.

Whats the problem with paye? It is easy with the right software. Easier than the CIS scheme imo. Plus as it is they cannot easily move to a competitor.

My two are on paye and have been for years. Best go LTD though in case the t wats sue you. Same for subby's though.

My paye software does everything for you now it is real time withthe hmrc. Even end of year. It deals with cis as well.
 
This rule has been around for a few years now. If you employ a labour subby over a period of time they are deemed as employees. You will have to pay employee NI on their earnings.

There are ways around it. Price work is one. There has to be a risk of loss to be deemed as a subby. If the subby cannot lose as cor example being paid by the hour then you have a problem.

Whats the problem with paye? It is easy with the right software. Easier than the CIS scheme imo. Plus as it is they cannot easily move to a competitor.

My two are on paye and have been for years. Best go LTD though in case the t wats sue you. Same for subby's though.

My paye software does everything for you now it is real time withthe hmrc. Even end of year. It deals with cis as well.
Lots of builders won't pay sick or holiday , I assume you must do?
 
Small co's like mine pay sick pay but then it is paid back through NI contributions due. The paye software does it for you. If the sick pay exceeds NI contributions at the end of the tax year you can claim it back. Sock pay cost me zilch.

Holiday pay is a % of wages earned. But when I was an employee, employees got 80% of a subby"s wages. The 20% paid for holiday pay, and other what an employee takes for granted.

My other spread is wanting more as usual. I told him I can get a subby cheaper but if he wants subby's rates then fine. Get CIS registered, a van, his own whisk and a full set of tools with straight edges and spirit levels then he can have subbies rates. Then I deducted the cost of a van alone and he is better off staying ignorant with the most basic of basic tools you can have. He doesn't even own a stanley knoife or tape measure.

That usually shuts him up for a month or two.
 
Small co's like mine pay sick pay but then it is paid back through NI contributions due. The paye software does it for you. If the sick pay exceeds NI contributions at the end of the tax year you can claim it back. Sock pay cost me zilch.

Holiday pay is a % of wages earned. But when I was an employee, employees got 80% of a subby"s wages. The 20% paid for holiday pay, and other what an employee takes for granted.

My other spread is wanting more as usual. I told him I can get a subby cheaper but if he wants subby's rates then fine. Get CIS registered, a van, his own whisk and a full set of tools with straight edges and spirit levels then he can have subbies rates. Then I deducted the cost of a van alone and he is better off staying ignorant with the most basic of basic tools you can have. He doesn't even own a stanley knoife or tape measure.

That usually shuts him up for a month or two.
Nice info to have
 
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